Manchester

[Barley Mow]

2 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

The main difference is because football is the National sport in England and the worlds #1 sport football has put places like Everton, Aston, Tottenham and Chelsea on the map plus all of those places listed can be found within the city boundaries of Liverpool, Birmingham and london proper.

I don't want to take the thread off on a tangent - I'm not arguing against a club named Manchester, just that (unless that's what their fans want) it shouldn't be a renamed Swinton.

What you are talking about is just the vagaries of local government boundaries - In that context what is 'London proper'?

The local authority for Tottenham is Harringay Borough, on a regional level there is the Greater London Authority. Similarly, the local authority for Swinton is Salford Borough which is part of the Greater Manchester Combined Authority.

If you're saying that only City of Manchester (a borough within Greater Manchester CA) is Manchester proper, then doesn't it follow that only the City of London (as in the ancient city or square mile) is London proper and the rest is just Greater London - like Bolton, Oldham, Tameside are Greater Manchester rather than 'Manchester proper'.

You could walk from Salford Borough into Trafford and then into 'Manchester proper' without having any idea you were in a different 'place' in the same way you could walk from Harringay through Islington into the City of London without knowing it unless you paid close attention to signposts. Manchester United and Chelsea FC play outside of the areas administered by Manchester City Council or Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea - These are just areas that the country is split up into so that it can be (reasonably) effectively administered, the names and boundaries can change every few decades and with them your definition of Manchester or London proper.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

44 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I don't want to take the tread off on a tangent - I'm not arguing against a club named Manchester, just that (unless that's what their fans want) it shouldn't be a renamed Swinton.

What you are talking about is just the vagaries of local government boundaries - In that context what is 'London proper'?

The local authority for Tottenham is Harringay Borough, on a regional level there is the Greater London Authority. Similarly, the local authority for Swinton is Salford Borough which is part of the Greater Manchester Combined Authority.

If you're saying that only City of Manchester (a borough within Greater Manchester CA) is Manchester proper, then doesn't it follow that only the City of London (as in the ancient city or square mile) is London proper and the rest is just Greater London - like Bolton, Oldham, Tameside are Greater Manchester rather than 'Manchester proper'.

You could walk from Salford Borough into Trafford and then into 'Manchester proper' without having any idea you were in a different 'place' in the same way you could walk from Harringay through Islington into the City of London without knowing it unless you paid close attention to signposts. Manchester United and Chelsea FC play outside of the areas administered by Manchester City Council or Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea - These are just areas that the country is split up into so that it can be (reasonably) effectively administered, the names and boundaries can change every few decades and with them your definition of Manchester or London proper.

To cut a long story short I don’t want to force swinton lions to move to Manchester or change their name unless that’s what their fans want to do. All I’m arguing is that changing the name of the swinton lions to Manchester lions whilst still being based in swinton or sale is ridiculous but seen as though swinton don’t actually play in swinton or their fans don’t want to change their name to Manchester lions it’s a moot point.

As for thinking that a professional/semi-professional Manchester team being based within the city of Manchester boundaries is a must then I would have to say yes.

[The Frying Scotsman]

13 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

You could walk from Salford Borough into Trafford and then into 'Manchester proper' without having any idea you were in a different 'place' in the same way you could walk from Harringay through Islington into the City of London without knowing it unless you paid close attention to signposts. 

This.

100%.

It is almost like the original poster has never actually been to these places... He seems to be completely ignorant of the geography and population of the actual areas.

[Tom F]

It has been a long time since any club from the Manchester area had any success, even South Yorkshire, who have less of a tradition in the game, have seen major silverware since anyone from GM has. Salford are the key and, although they have done well and come close, they have never looked like a team likely to win something and fans these days are fickle, they are surrounded by football success there and are bound to respond to that. I think if they managed to win a challenge cup then it would boost the whole area. Stiff ask though.

[Barley Mow]

9 minutes ago, Tom F said:

It has been a long time since any club from the Manchester area had any success, even South Yorkshire, who have less of a tradition in the game, have seen major silverware since anyone from GM has. Salford are the key and, although they have done well and come close, they have never looked like a team likely to win something and fans these days are fickle, they are surrounded by football success there and are bound to respond to that. I think if they managed to win a challenge cup then it would boost the whole area. Stiff ask though.

In referring to Greater Manchester, you have missed Wigan who have been successful.

From what you write, I assume you are seeing that as a separate town and are referencing the contiguous built up area centred on Manchester (and Salford) rather than GM.

[Tom F]

1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

In referring to Greater Manchester, you have missed Wigan who have been successful.

From what you write, I assume you are seeing that as a separate town and are referencing the contiguous built up area centred on Manchester (and Salford) rather than GM.

Yes, I know technically it's Manchester but I think most people in Wigan see it as some autonomous republic from anywhere (I worked there for 14 years, overlooking Central Park), there is a better case for Leigh but I suspect they are the same on that score as well.

[Barley Mow]

3 minutes ago, Tom F said:

Yes, I know technically it's Manchester but I think most people in Wigan see it as some autonomous republic from anywhere (I worked there for 14 years, overlooking Central Park), there is a better case for Leigh but I suspect they are the same on that score as well.

That's what I assumed - it was just your use of GM that made me question it.

[Tom F]

10 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

That's what I assumed - it was just your use of GM that made me question it.

I meant genetically modified