Valencia

[The Frying Scotsman]

11 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

 

 And the main population centres in Scotland are not right next to England! 

Edinburgh is 200 miles from York.

Glasgow is 204 miles from Wigan.

You said  " its bonkers that Spain doesn't have a domestic competition particarly with the proximity to Catalans Dragons. " You made no mention of Catalunya.

"Main population centres" (your words)

Sevilla is 730 miles from Perpignan.

Madrid is 500 miles from Perpignan.

Valencia is 330 miles from Perpignan.

Malaga is 720 miles from Perpignan.

Obviously Barcelona is closer. 

Oh... and Perpignan, is 1 wee town with a Rugby League team.

 

Again - why is it "bonkers" that Spain does not have a domestic Rugby League championship just because a wee town in France has a professional team? 

It's quite obvious to me, that Spanish people, in the main, have no interest in Rugby League. Or certainly not enough interest to form clubs and organise themselves into a league. If they did, I think they would have one.

There is only 1 thing that I can think of that is "bonkers" on this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldbear]

I worry that the whole Valencia project is solely founded on attracting visiting UK fans, plus trying to appeal to British expats in the area, and it actually has no Spanish element to it at all. Surely they have to put down some roots first, and ideally play in an appropriate competition before even thinking about joining the RFL system. Otherwise it will end up being yet another false dawn, based on social media and one mans dream.

[langpark]

6 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Again - why is it "bonkers" that Spain does not have a domestic Rugby League championship .

I agree with him, but not for the reason he mentions. It is indeed bonkers that they have no league, considering all the noise they have been making since the whole Valencia idea began.

I don't really see the pandemic as an excuse either. Approx 13 months passed between the the Fev match and the pandemic hitting Spain, so they had ample time to get some activity going. 

[Hela Wigmen]

1 hour ago, langpark said:

I agree with him, but not for the reason he mentions. It is indeed bonkers that they have no league, considering all the noise they have been making since the whole Valencia idea began.

I don't really see the pandemic as an excuse either. Approx 13 months passed between the the Fev match and the pandemic hitting Spain, so they had ample time to get some activity going. 

I seem to remember Valencia making some noise about playing League One sides who had a bye week in 2019. Ultimately, nothing happened. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, langpark said:

I agree with him, but not for the reason he mentions. It is indeed bonkers that they have no league, considering all the noise they have been making since the whole Valencia idea began.

I don't really see the pandemic as an excuse either. Approx 13 months passed between the the Fev match and the pandemic hitting Spain, so they had ample time to get some activity going. 

Is it the same people who are the driving force behind Euro XIII?

[tms]

20 minutes ago, langpark said:

I agree with him, but not for the reason he mentions. It is indeed bonkers that they have no league, considering all the noise they have been making since the whole Valencia idea began.

I don't really see the pandemic as an excuse either. Approx 13 months passed between the the Fev match and the pandemic hitting Spain, so they had ample time to get some activity going. 

Approx 13 months passed between the the Fev match  and the pandemic hitting Spain HAHAHAHA not really FEV played saturday 11th january 2020 and according to reports  pandemic started 31 january 2020 in both UK and spain so that's a short 13 months

they had ample time to get some activity going.  valencia  agreed to play kieghley in may and rochdale in june 2020 in the uk and to play North Luzon Headhunters in the phillapines in july but  all  were postponed due to covid  and last year although no dates confirmed  FEV agreed to go on anther jolly to valencia this january but again it was cancelled at the game we spoke yo teir CEO dean buchan and he said they wanted  to develop relationships with clubs in the UK and trying to get  a few friendlies against League one opposition  in 2020 he also said they were  visiting schools and promoting Rugby league to the next generation

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/rochdale-confirm-friendly-against-valencia-huracanes/

https://www.keighleynews.co.uk/sport/18266847.keighley-set-face-valencia-may-friendly/

https://edandaya.wordpress.com/2020/03/05/ph-gets-chance-to-play-spain-in-rugby/

[OriginalMrC]

8 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Edinburgh is 200 miles from York.

Glasgow is 204 miles from Wigan.

You said  " its bonkers that Spain doesn't have a domestic competition particarly with the proximity to Catalans Dragons. " You made no mention of Catalunya.

"Main population centres" (your words)

Sevilla is 730 miles from Perpignan.

Madrid is 500 miles from Perpignan.

Valencia is 330 miles from Perpignan.

Malaga is 720 miles from Perpignan.

Obviously Barcelona is closer. 

Oh... and Perpignan, is 1 wee town with a Rugby League team.

 

Again - why is it "bonkers" that Spain does not have a domestic Rugby League championship just because a wee town in France has a professional team? 

It's quite obvious to me, that Spanish people, in the main, have no interest in Rugby League. Or certainly not enough interest to form clubs and organise themselves into a league. If they did, I think they would have one.

There is only 1 thing that I can think of that is "bonkers" on this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus OK I think you've made your point. I didn't think a throwaway comment would invoke such a strong reaction. OK I get it there is zero interest in RL in Spain and its bonkers to even think so

 

[ATLANTISMAN]

Nothing wrong with a dream (I should know about that LOL:) 

Any new RL has to be encouraged but also has to be realistic, my own personal opinion of the proposed European comp is that it seems a little far fetched however if it does happen I wish it well.

France has to be the No 1 priority at present.

 

Paul

[OriginalMrC]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Is it the same people who are the driving force behind Euro XIII?

Yes, it's the Spanish RL (plus one or two others) that are behind the Euro competition. 

[zylya]

10 hours ago, Oldbear said:

I worry that the whole Valencia project is solely founded on attracting visiting UK fans, plus trying to appeal to British expats in the area, and it actually has no Spanish element to it at all. Surely they have to put down some roots first, and ideally play in an appropriate competition before even thinking about joining the RFL system. Otherwise it will end up being yet another false dawn, based on social media and one mans dream.

Which appropriate competition do you suggest they join?

[Oldbear]

3 hours ago, zylya said:

Which appropriate competition do you suggest they join?

I would have thought the French comp, logistically less hassle than flights, cheaper ( unless they have an airline as sponsor), and definitely a more appropriate standard than getting battered in Cumbria).

[zylya]

2 hours ago, Oldbear said:

I would have thought the French comp, logistically less hassle than flights, cheaper ( unless they have an airline as sponsor), and definitely a more appropriate standard than getting battered in Cumbria).

It's a 6 hour drive to Perpignan and a 7 hour drive to Toulouse. The longets journey in Elite 1 would be Avingnon at just under 8:30.

In Elite 2, the longest journey would be Lyon at 12 hours but would also feature a drive to Toulon at 10 hours.

To get from Valencia to the French border is around 5 and half hours drive - I assume a little slower on a coach and worse if there's traffic. That means, at best, you're looking at 6 hour drives to games - it'd be like having Newcastle and Newquay in the same league.

8 hour coach ride also means that you're either leaving at around 5am to arrive around 1pm for a 2:30 kickoff and assuming you get on the road at 5pm (leaving very little time to finish the game and get some food) you'll be getting home at 1am. If you stayed overnight, your costs would rise.

I'm not saying that you're wrong that it might be trying to attract UK fans to travel and that it might not be sustainable - I don't personally think the RFL structure is the right decision long term for Spanish clubs (a proper Spanish domestic scene would be the best thing in my mind) but at the moment there's no good competition for them to be in. If they go semi-pro and the rest of the Spanish clubs in the domestic comp they're forming now stay amateur then there's no competition. If they go to France, there's a huge travel burden for not much return. As strange as it sounds, the RFL system isn't strictly worse than their other options, and has the upside of the chance to play in comps like the Challenge Cup and, if they do well and invest right, the Championship and Super League.

I think it highlights just how much work is needed to develop RL on the continent - apart from a few small pockets, there's no infrastructure to allow clubs to grow in other countries.

[Oldbear]

1 hour ago, zylya said:

It's a 6 hour drive to Perpignan and a 7 hour drive to Toulouse. The longets journey in Elite 1 would be Avingnon at just under 8:30.

In Elite 2, the longest journey would be Lyon at 12 hours but would also feature a drive to Toulon at 10 hours.

To get from Valencia to the French border is around 5 and half hours drive - I assume a little slower on a coach and worse if there's traffic. That means, at best, you're looking at 6 hour drives to games - it'd be like having Newcastle and Newquay in the same league.

8 hour coach ride also means that you're either leaving at around 5am to arrive around 1pm for a 2:30 kickoff and assuming you get on the road at 5pm (leaving very little time to finish the game and get some food) you'll be getting home at 1am. If you stayed overnight, your costs would rise.

I'm not saying that you're wrong that it might be trying to attract UK fans to travel and that it might not be sustainable - I don't personally think the RFL structure is the right decision long term for Spanish clubs (a proper Spanish domestic scene would be the best thing in my mind) but at the moment there's no good competition for them to be in. If they go semi-pro and the rest of the Spanish clubs in the domestic comp they're forming now stay amateur then there's no competition. If they go to France, there's a huge travel burden for not much return. As strange as it sounds, the RFL system isn't strictly worse than their other options, and has the upside of the chance to play in comps like the Challenge Cup and, if they do well and invest right, the Championship and Super League.

I think it highlights just how much work is needed to develop RL on the continent - apart from a few small pockets, there's no infrastructure to allow clubs to grow in other countries.

Not totally disagreeing with your logic, but trips to Barrow, Whitehaven, Workington and West Wales will hardly be fun either, and in the case of the first 3 all they will probably have to show for it is a good hiding, hardly conducive to launching a new club. I know road trips in France are not fun, but I suspect that in a post pandemic world flying is probably going to be not so straightforward plus my feelings were that the French comp might be a more suitable standard for them, unless they plan on doing a Toronto and filling their team with higher priced journeymen imports and Championship players (in which case where’s the money coming from).

[Sammo]

1 hour ago, zylya said:

It's a 6 hour drive to Perpignan and a 7 hour drive to Toulouse. The longets journey in Elite 1 would be Avingnon at just under 8:30.

In Elite 2, the longest journey would be Lyon at 12 hours but would also feature a drive to Toulon at 10 hours.

To get from Valencia to the French border is around 5 and half hours drive - I assume a little slower on a coach and worse if there's traffic. That means, at best, you're looking at 6 hour drives to games - it'd be like having Newcastle and Newquay in the same league.

8 hour coach ride also means that you're either leaving at around 5am to arrive around 1pm for a 2:30 kickoff and assuming you get on the road at 5pm (leaving very little time to finish the game and get some food) you'll be getting home at 1am. If you stayed overnight, your costs would rise.

I'm not saying that you're wrong that it might be trying to attract UK fans to travel and that it might not be sustainable - I don't personally think the RFL structure is the right decision long term for Spanish clubs (a proper Spanish domestic scene would be the best thing in my mind) but at the moment there's no good competition for them to be in. If they go semi-pro and the rest of the Spanish clubs in the domestic comp they're forming now stay amateur then there's no competition. If they go to France, there's a huge travel burden for not much return. As strange as it sounds, the RFL system isn't strictly worse than their other options, and has the upside of the chance to play in comps like the Challenge Cup and, if they do well and invest right, the Championship and Super League.

I think it highlights just how much work is needed to develop RL on the continent - apart from a few small pockets, there's no infrastructure to allow clubs to grow in other countries.

Sorry, why would they have to drive? For most of them they could fly into Barcelona, but there’s also flights from Valencia to Lyon or Marseille.

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Not totally disagreeing with your logic, but trips to Barrow, Whitehaven, Workington and West Wales will hardly be fun either, and in the case of the first 3 all they will probably have to show for it is a good hiding, hardly conducive to launching a new club. I know road trips in France are not fun, but I suspect that in a post pandemic world flying is probably going to be not so straightforward plus my feelings were that the French comp might be a more suitable standard for them, unless they plan on doing a Toronto and filling their team with higher priced journeymen imports and Championship players (in which case where’s the money coming from).

Their owner made it quite clear that he doesn’t see their future in Elite 1 because it’s not commercially viable (little exposure, small crowds etc). Also of course they’d welcome money from the hundreds of away fans who’d go over, why wouldn’t they, I imagine Barrow would take a lot more fans to Valencia than Limoux would. 

[Oldbear]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Their owner made it quite clear that he doesn’t see their future in Elite 1 because it’s not commercially viable (little exposure, small crowds etc). Also of course they’d welcome money from the hundreds of away fans who’d go over, why wouldn’t they, I imagine Barrow would take a lot more fans to Valencia than Limoux would. 

I see that, but what actually is the future for Valencia? Is it do try to do a TWP and race for SL, hoping that they can generate good crowds and local interest, if so that means $$$, and no doubt Josh McCrone and Darcy Lussick are waiting for the phone call. Is the plan to grow steadily and develop local juniors, in which case great, but would they be competitive in L1 (and yes I know they will bring over players as there is pretty much no locals to speak of as yet), can they afford to plan and steadily progress like Coventry, do they even see that as part of their plan? Problem is no one really knows. Plus one final point, can the existing L1 clubs afford to fly out to Valencia for games? It’s always struck me as being pretty hand to mouth down there, is there potential for an airline sponsor, if so it’s a pretty bad time to be looking for one, given the pandemics effect on travel.

[zylya]

54 minutes ago, Sammo said:

Sorry, why would they have to drive? For most of them they could fly into Barcelona, but there’s also flights from Valencia to Lyon or Marseille.

The initial argument was that France made more sense because in the English leagues they'd have to fly and the associated cost... if they're flying to France, why not fly to England?

[emesssea]

19 hours ago, Oldbear said:

I worry that the whole Valencia project is solely founded on attracting visiting UK fans, plus trying to appeal to British expats in the area, and it actually has no Spanish element to it at all. Surely they have to put down some roots first, and ideally play in an appropriate competition before even thinking about joining the RFL system. Otherwise it will end up being yet another false dawn, based on social media and one mans dream.

Replace UK with Northeastern US and British with Canadians and you more or less described the beginning of the LA Kings (two time Stanley Cup champions)

 

"Los Angeles has a large number of expatriates from both the Northeastern United States and Canada, which Cooke saw as a natural fan base."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Los_Angeles_Kings

[Yakstorm]

A few things I just want to add to this thread.  Firstly, Spain has had active Rugby League clubs and competitions running as recently as 2019.  If COVID didn't occur, the new six team National League that is launching this year would have happened last year, in fact they were heavily recruiting for it from the French competitions last March.  Here was the announcement of the 2020 competition (https://www.rugbyleague.es/es/liga-nacional/)

Prior to COVID as well, Valencia, outside of playing Featherstone and taking part in the Spanish national league, had organised games against Keighley and the Manila Storm in the Philippines (https://www.rugbyleague.es/es/el-dia-de-la-amistad-entre-filipinas-y-espana/).  There is one of L1 or Championship club they had also organised a match with as well, but can't remember off the top of my head.

The clubs who took part in the 2017 and 2018 seasons were the Bufals Sedaví, Ontinyent, Torrent Tigers, Valencian Warriors and Xativa Roosters, which were all based in the province of Valencia, plus Custodians Madrid, based in Getafe.  I can't confirm all the teams that took part in 2019, but the Warriors, Roosters and Tigers all played matches.  There was also an Origin match between Madrid and Valencia. 

Now to say Rugby League in Spain is going great, wouldn't be accurate, and there is no doubt it wasn't as big in 2019 as it was say in 2016/17 (arguably the peak), but outside of a COVID hit year, which did stop a lot of sports being played in a lot of countries, it has had some reasonable consistency of action since 2013.

Back on the Huracanes, I wonder if part of the reason they aren't consider Elite One is because of interviews like this one with Lacoste (https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/big-interview-with-french-federation-president-luc-lacoste/) where he indicates it maybe too early for any Spainish teams.

Anyway, for me, I would prefer them to join Elite One versus League One.  The game needs a continental European club competition, and whilst EuroXIII hasn't gone away, Elite One has a nice framework to build such a competition from.  That said, it's not my money, so the Huracanes can aim for whatever they like.  I'm just glad they are also helping invest in creating a national competition in Spain, which is arguably more important than just a single club for the code.

[The Phantom Horseman]

On 12/04/2021 at 21:09, Eddie said:

9pm kick off, now you’re talking. Nice lunch and a few looseners in the old town, then head over to the beach area to pick up the pace a bit late afternoon and early evening, go to the match and then on to the Barrio del Carmen until you can’t drink another drop - best away day ever. 

And that's just the players' schedule.

[gingerjon]

5 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

 

Prior to COVID as well, Valencia, outside of playing Featherstone and taking part in the Spanish national league, had organised games against Keighley and the Manila Storm in the Philippines (https://www.rugbyleague.es/es/el-dia-de-la-amistad-entre-filipinas-y-espana/).  There is one of L1 or Championship club they had also organised a match with as well, but can't remember off the top of my head.

 

Rochdale, I think.

[Tommygilf]

23 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Is it the same people who are the driving force behind Euro XIII?

Yes

[del capo]

51 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yes

League 1 for Valencia is a pipe dream ( and I'm not sure what is in the pipe ).

Make Euro x111 work. If it comes out with a comprehensive economically and player wise structure , then great. That could be the way forward for club level Europe rugby.

Has it got approval yet ?

If so that is the competition to promote. Talk of semi pro links with RFL or Elite ! are so far off the mark at this stage. Play a few games against RFL tier 4 or Elite 2 first before everyone  otherwise get's embarrassed........

[Eddie]

14 minutes ago, del capo said:

League 1 for Valencia is a pipe dream ( and I'm not sure what is in the pipe ).

Make Euro x111 work. If it comes out with a comprehensive economically and player wise structure , then great. That could be the way forward for club level Europe rugby.

Has it got approval yet ?

If so that is the competition to promote. Talk of semi pro links with RFL or Elite ! are so far off the mark at this stage. Play a few games against RFL tier 4 or Elite 2 first before everyone  otherwise get's embarrassed........

Approval from who? 

[del capo]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Approval from who? 

We've been through this movie before

You are either inside the system or renegade. Thought by now after a year of lockdown the powers that be would have resolved this.

Don't talk of   Euro X111 ,Valencia or anyone else playing within an RFL , FFR or ERL structure without coming to terms with an agreed governance for all of it.....