Valencia

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, del capo said:

We've been through this movie before

You are either inside the system or renegade. Thought by now after a year of lockdown the powers that be would have resolved this.

Don't talk of   Euro X111 ,Valencia or anyone else playing within an RFL , FFR or ERL structure without coming to terms with an agreed governance for all of it.....

The European system is terrible though, three people in a box room. Nobody should need their permission to do anything imho, it’s not like they’ve organised much themselves. 

[del capo]

7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The European system is terrible though, three people in a box room. Nobody should need their permission to do anything imho, it’s not like they’ve organised much themselves. 

Eddie I don't know enough about the ERL to comment.

If it's 3 people in a box then who put them there ? Those same voters can change all of that as long as they carry the majority. That didn't happen as I recall when national votes were taken  at the AGM last year.

ERL apparently run the international scene fairly ok. They have no governance it would seem over domestic activity. And that is where the friction lies. Poor constitutional drafting in my view. But they have the solid support of the real powerbrokers.

'Nobody should need their permission to do anything ' is a preamble to anarchy and as an Admin guy for nearly 50 years  not a route I would recommend.

Never yet through history has the Black Flag flown with  any duration......

Can't they just sort it ?.....

 

[JonM]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

The European system is terrible though, three people in a box room. Nobody should need their permission to do anything imho, it’s not like they’ve organised much themselves. 

I'm really surprised you keep repeating bizarre statements like this. The RLEF has done a fantastic job - one of the few big success stories in RL. We've now got properly constituted legal rugby league bodies in dozens of countries, coaching and refereeing courses being run all over the continent, regular international competitions involving lots of countries - none of which existed before the RLEF. This all done on a shoestring bit of funding from the EU - a fraction of what was wasted on Elstone by SL.

Edited April 15, 2021 by JonM

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, JonM said:

I'm really surprised you keep repeating bizarre statements like this. The RLEF has done a fantastic job - one of the few big success stories in RL. We've now got properly constituted legal rugby league bodies in dozens of countries, coaching and refereeing courses being run all over the continent, regular international competitions involving lots of countries - none of which existed before the RLEF. This all done on a shoestring bit of funding from the EU - a fraction of what was fasted on Elstone by SL.

Agreed. There’s a set structure now for the European Cup(s) with sides able to step up & down based on results. They don’t need the distractions of rebel governing bodies who have their own agenda

[The Frying Scotsman]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Agreed. There’s a set structure now for the European Cup(s) with sides able to step up & down based on results. They don’t need the distractions of rebel governing bodies who have their own agenda

Well, in most minority sports, cross-border competition organised between countries is actively encouraged, as it helps drive playing standards higher, and also means the Euro governing body does not have to fund/organise tournaments themselves if they are unable to.

So - what cross-border competitions are being organised by Euro Rugby League that would potentially clash with the Euro XIII? 

[Spidey]

33 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Well, in most minority sports, cross-border competition organised between countries is actively encouraged, as it helps drive playing standards higher, and also means the Euro governing body does not have to fund/organise tournaments themselves if they are unable to.

So - what cross-border competitions are being organised by Euro Rugby League that would potentially clash with the Euro XIII? 

That just distracts away from the competitions within their own countries. That should be the primary focus surely 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, JonM said:

I'm really surprised you keep repeating bizarre statements like this. The RLEF has done a fantastic job - one of the few big success stories in RL. We've now got properly constituted legal rugby league bodies in dozens of countries, coaching and refereeing courses being run all over the continent, regular international competitions involving lots of countries - none of which existed before the RLEF. This all done on a shoestring bit of funding from the EU - a fraction of what was wasted on Elstone by SL.

All good stuff, but are any of the domestic leagues stronger than they were 3 years ago for example, or any of the international teams? They’ve basically organised this pooled European Cup that hasn’t taken place yet (because of the pandemic). I just don’t see why the RLEF think they have jurisdiction on what happens in the whole of Europe, given how limited they are. If someone wants to organise something bigger than the RLEF can (eg Euro XIIIs) why stand in their way? Have the RLEF offered any tournaments up for many of the Euro XIII clubs to play in, such as the Brussels and Budapest teams? Trying to stop Euro XIIIs is basically telling people in those teams that they can’t play rugby league, as they’ve got. O body else to play. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Eddie

[JonM]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

 I just don’t see why the RLEF think they have jurisdiction on what happens in the whole of Europe,

Because that's what the world governing body of the sport of rugby league has agreed should be the case, and they've been recognised as the governing body by various governments.

It just seems bizarre for you to trot out this line about them not having done much when there's stories in the last couple of weeks about 6 referees having been trained in Albania, first ever game in Montenegro, nine teams taking part in a snow tournament in Ukraine and so on. Europe (ex UK) now has many more rugby league teams than France, many more than the South of England. In 2019, there were dozens of international fixtures played, not just adult mens, but also womens, students, wheelchair, youth age groups etc. 

I'm assuming that Euro XIII is going to expect to get match officials from somewhere?

[ATLANTISMAN]

1 hour ago, JonM said:

I'm really surprised you keep repeating bizarre statements like this. The RLEF has done a fantastic job - one of the few big success stories in RL. We've now got properly constituted legal rugby league bodies in dozens of countries, coaching and refereeing courses being run all over the continent, regular international competitions involving lots of countries - none of which existed before the RLEF. This all done on a shoestring bit of funding from the EU - a fraction of what was wasted on Elstone by SL.

The RLEF have done a brilliant job and as you say on a shoestring budget 

Marks from this headmaster 11 out of 10:)

 

Paul

[Eddie]

34 minutes ago, JonM said:

Because that's what the world governing body of the sport of rugby league has agreed should be the case, and they've been recognised as the governing body by various governments.

It just seems bizarre for you to trot out this line about them not having done much when there's stories in the last couple of weeks about 6 referees having been trained in Albania, first ever game in Montenegro, nine teams taking part in a snow tournament in Ukraine and so on. Europe (ex UK) now has many more rugby league teams than France, many more than the South of England. In 2019, there were dozens of international fixtures played, not just adult mens, but also womens, students, wheelchair, youth age groups etc. 

I'm assuming that Euro XIII is going to expect to get match officials from somewhere?

It’s great that they’re training referees, but that is just one function, there’s no point having referees if there are no games to play. If the RLEF are responsible for the Montenegrin team entering the Serbian league and the recent tournament in Ukraine then hats off to them - is that their work?  
 

My point is that there are people who want to play rugby league in places like Belgium and Denmark, who don’t have a domestic competition and have entered Euro XIII so they can play matches. If the RLEF don’t help them create RLEF competitions to play in then why stop them playing in an unsanctioned competition? So you think they should be told they can’t play rugby league? 

[JonM]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

My point is that there are people who want to play rugby league in places like Belgium and Denmark, who don’t have a domestic competition and have entered Euro XIII so they can play matches. If the RLEF don’t help them create RLEF competitions to play in then why stop them playing in an unsanctioned competition? So you think they should be told they can’t play rugby league? 

Belgium's rugby league governing body joined the RLEF over a decade ago, and has played numerous international fixtures, received technical assistance from the EU Erasmus+ funding (9 coaches qualified at a course in Brussels). Likewise Denmark has been a member for over a decade, has had coaching and refereeing courses and so on. I don't think you can expect "three people in a box room" to actually be the ones to find players and create clubs for domestic competitions.

Why try to set up a rebel competition rather than just working with the governing bodies - the RFL, FFR and ERL (as the RLEF is now called)? The history of our sport in recent decades is littered with these idiotic splits. 

[Eddie]

5 minutes ago, JonM said:

Belgium's rugby league governing body joined the RLEF over a decade ago, and has played numerous international fixtures, received technical assistance from the EU Erasmus+ funding (9 coaches qualified at a course in Brussels). Likewise Denmark has been a member for over a decade, has had coaching and refereeing courses and so on. I don't think you can expect "three people in a box room" to actually be the ones to find players and create clubs for domestic competitions.

Why try to set up a rebel competition rather than just working with the governing bodies - the RFL, FFR and ERL (as the RLEF is now called)? The history of our sport in recent decades is littered with these idiotic splits. 

I completely agree that they should be working together and we obviously don’t know the politics behind why they aren’t. However no I don’t think the RLEF should be the ones starting a Belgian competition, so why do they therefore object to someone else starting a competition for a Belgian club to play in. We’ll have to agree to differ here I think. 

[langpark]

Actually, the ERL never tried stopping the Euro 13. That is ine big misinformation that seems to be going around. Some people/organisations just seem desperate to wear the 'rebel' tag.  

[The Frying Scotsman]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

That just distracts away from the competitions within their own countries. That should be the primary focus surely 

Why?

If countries do not have enough interest to create their own League, they can potentially play cross-border.

Countries such as Belgium/Holland for example, this could be the solution needed if 1 or both is unable to create their own League season. 

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Why?

If countries do not have enough interest to create their own League, they can potentially play cross-border.

Countries such as Belgium/Holland for example, this could be the solution needed if 1 or both is unable to create their own League season. 

That’s all good and well, why then are English teams getting involved. There are agendas in place here

[JonM]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

 We’ll have to agree to differ here I think. 

I very much hope Euro 13s turns out to be a success. It doesn't (and shouldn't) need to involve attacking one of the few standout bright spots in world RL.

[The Frying Scotsman]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

That’s all good and well, why then are English teams getting involved. There are agendas in place here

I have no idea. I was answering a completely different point.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

That’s all good and well, why then are English teams getting involved. There are agendas in place here

Because they want to play abroad in a new exciting competition? Who wouldn’t want to go to Budapest or wherever with their mates to play a game of RL?

[yipyee]

On 13/04/2021 at 08:15, langpark said:

If within the next decade, 3 of the following 4 are playing SL and getting decent following, we will be doing very well expansion-wise: London, Toulouse, Sheffield, Newcastle. 

Newcastle and Toulouse are key, London not in its current guise

[Jparrish]

If Elite 1 was to go professional on the back of the 2025 World Cup then surly if would be more practical for them to join the French set up? 

[langpark]

6 hours ago, Jparrish said:

If Elite 1 was to go professional on the back of the 2025 World Cup then surly if would be more practical for them to join the French set up? 

If a Valencia entity ever does come to fruition, then yes. But the Valencia Huracanes only ever played one match in their very short-lived existence, against Featherstone.

 

[Madrileño]

7 hours ago, Jparrish said:

If Elite 1 was to go professional on the back of the 2025 World Cup then surly if would be more practical for them to join the French set up? 

You do realise that they don't exist?

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

You do realise that they don't exist?

Not existing, never existing, and no prospect of existing, really wasn't a problem for people all aboard the Euro XIII train and its attendant nonsense.

[barnyia]

The only thing left in Valencia is a very good ex pat referee who is doing a fine job spreading the rugby league word over Europe, doing referee seminars and reffing in France every so often, top bloke too. 

[langpark]

Valencia peaked circa 2016 with 5 teams; Torrent Tigers, Peterna Dragons, Xativa Roosters and a couple of others whose names escape me. All teams I believe were dual-code, but still, they were very active att he time. The wheels started to come off pretty soon after and Spanish RL has been in the wilderness ever since.