Whose season is already over?

[Mr Plow]

15 minutes ago, dboy said:

So, how many clubs have indeed won SL??

4 winners, 8 finalists, 7 league leaders

[The Frying Scotsman]

1 hour ago, Wholly Trinity said:

You seem to have made your mind up that Wakefield lack ambition, but you're still looking for proof of success or achievement as proof of desire. 

The idea that Trinity are happy to sit at the bottom of the table and take the sky money is a total myth, but seems to be accepted as truth by some on this board. Where is there any benefit in doing that? I guess the directors must be just divying up all the left over cash at the end of the year.

and they are consistently round about 3rd last every year it seems. 

The operative phrase here being "it seems". The reality is that during the last 5 years of this coach/owner regime they have finished an average of 8th. 

Even using your method of measuring ambition by success that is an achievement for a club with lowest budget, starting from the brink of bankruptcy, selling off all their players and losing ownership of all assets.

That they got to that point is a combination of bad luck, complacency and terrible management since the 70s, but you can only play the hand you're dealt.

It's like comparing someone with inherited wealth running the family business with someone born in poverty starting their own business. Which one has the most ambition?

The other myth, of course, is that somehow it's Wakefield's fault that RL is not competing with soccer at the top of UK sport. They are a symptom of the lack of finance and prestige in the sport, not the cause. The story of Trinity is the story of the sport; under investment and missed opportunities.

The much-ridiculed serial attempts to move to better facilities is further evidence of ambition. However, the fact that none of these came off is somehow used as evidence of complacency and lack of ambition. 

The improvements made at the club since 2015 have been enormous, but if you don't look you won't see them.

In professional sport, cash is king. The goal to achieve long-term financial stability is a difficult one when you start with nothing and without a big money backer. Whether they achieve that goal is still in the balance, and the pressure is mounting. If they don't get there soon, they will be replaced. They have been bought time by the financial basket case that is Northern Hemisphere RL.

 

They are in a city with a bigger population than Newcastle. They almost uniquely have no professional football there. Yet they have an average crowd of 5000 odd, and play in a ramshackle old stadium that hasn't changed in decades. In 2016(?) their jersey sponsor was K9 Poodle Parlour and Cat Wash. 

Their fans have been blaming "the council" on here for years regarding their stadium situation.

Perhaps they are ambitious. They certainly don't appear to be to the casual observer.

 

[Wholly Trinity]

52 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

They are in a city with a bigger population than Newcastle. They almost uniquely have no professional football there. Yet they have an average crowd of 5000 odd, and play in a ramshackle old stadium that hasn't changed in decades. In 2016(?) their jersey sponsor was K9 Poodle Parlour and Cat Wash. 

Their fans have been blaming "the council" on here for years regarding their stadium situation.

Perhaps they are ambitious. They certainly don't appear to be to the casual observer.

 

Hmmm... perhaps your observations should be a little less casual.

Newcastle population 300k

Wakefield population 100k

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_upon_Tyne

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakefield

The district (City and 5 towns) has bigger population than the city of Newcastle, but that district has a population of 1.65 million.

The ramshackle stadium is part of the reason for the small crowds. It has changed significantly since promotion (2 roofs and a hospitality block, floodlights and running repairs on terracing) despite no intention to stay there (at least not until last year).

K9 were the winners of the draw of sponsors. It was part of a scheme to engage more local businesses. They all paid £1000 and the lucky winner got their names on the shirt. This raised significantly more for shirt sponsorship than previous years and also resulted in continued sponsorship from the other businesses involved in the draw. It raised the value of shirt sponsorship and they now have one of the most prestigious shirt sponsors in SL in Asus. What's that word again? Ambition?

Some blame the council, but during the previous council leader's (and cas share holder's) reign many schemes failed (coincidence? or incompetence?). Getting a new facility is very difficult and active support of your LA is vital. The actual progress now being made is supported by the council via a loan to buy the stadium and surrounding land.

 

[Niels]

17 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Hmmm... perhaps your observations should be a little less casual.

Newcastle population 300k

Wakefield population 100k

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_upon_Tyne

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakefield

The district (City and 5 towns) has bigger population than the city of Newcastle, but that district has a population of 1.65 million.

The ramshackle stadium is part of the reason for the small crowds. It has changed significantly since promotion (2 roofs and a hospitality block, floodlights and running repairs on terracing) despite no intention to stay there (at least not until last year).

K9 were the winners of the draw of sponsors. It was part of a scheme to engage more local businesses. They all paid £1000 and the lucky winner got their names on the shirt. This raised significantly more for shirt sponsorship than previous years and also resulted in continued sponsorship from the other businesses involved in the draw. It raised the value of shirt sponsorship and they now have one of the most prestigious shirt sponsors in SL in Asus. What's that word again? Ambition?

Some blame the council, but during the previous council leader's (and cas share holder's) reign many schemes failed (coincidence? or incompetence?). Getting a new facility is very difficult and active support of your LA is vital. The actual progress now being made is supported by the council via a loan to buy the stadium and surrounding land.

 

Good points.

Ambition is very different to each club. It differs from winning super league to actually play the games and finish a season. 

Only 3 current super league teams have won the grand final. So the rest are all looking for a Leicester City type season. This is still the same ambition. It just takes longer and needs more patience.

Presumably those who need to have regular grand final wins will gravitate to Leeds, St Helens or Wigan. 

 

[Stanley30]

Just another post where we can turn on ourselves and be negative. 

I'm out

[JohnM]

Just because a team  is unlikely to win the Grand Final does not mean their season is over already.

Wakefield take a lot of stick on here for all sorts of reasons, most if not all are nothing to do with the on-field performance.  The one thing they do not lack is ambition, though, in my view. Players don't turn out week after week just to go through the motions. There is still a lot at stake for them. 

 

[The Frying Scotsman]

4 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Just because a team  is unlikely to win the Grand Final does not mean their season is over already.

Wakefield take a lot of stick on here for all sorts of reasons, most if not all are nothing to do with the on-field performance.  The one thing they do not lack is ambition, though, in my view. Players don't turn out week after week just to go through the motions. There is still a lot at stake for them. 

 

I never suggested the players lack ambition.

I said the club shows zero ambition. A couple of Wakefield fans disagreed and showed that the club does have some ambition. If they are happy with that, fair enough.

The original poster said their season is over already. What is it that is still at stake for them?

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

I never suggested the players lack ambition.

I said the club shows zero ambition. A couple of Wakefield fans disagreed and showed that the club does have some ambition. If they are happy with that, fair enough.

The original poster said their season is over already. What is it that is still at stake for them?

It wasn't even that I was saying it, it was a Wakefield fan who is a relatively prominent journalist. 

[PREPOSTEROUS]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

It wasn't even that I was saying it, it was a Wakefield fan who is a relatively prominent journalist. 

I suppose that's a deflated supporter after witnessing 3 successive, relatively poor defeats after a season or two of under performance, had it been three successive defeats but the performances were a little more encouraging they might have felt different. 

[dboy]

15 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

4 winners

So, in your measure of success being "clubs who could win SL", there are at least 7 others, along with Wakey, who you would deem to be below standard. One of the 4 is Bulls who are lucky to be in existence today.

You'll find a similar stat if you look at Premiership soccer.

Success is a continuum.

[Chris22]

I haven't read this thread...but that title is a hell of an overreaction!

I wish putting Leigh in Super League was the sport's biggest ever mistake!

[Mr Plow]

2 hours ago, dboy said:

So, in your measure of success being "clubs who could win SL", there are at least 7 others, along with Wakey, who you would deem to be below standard. One of the 4 is Bulls who are lucky to be in existence today.

You'll find a similar stat if you look at Premiership soccer.

Success is a continuum.

That post also said how many grand finalists and league leaders we’ve had in the summer era.

Every Super League club apart from Leigh and Wakefield have appeared in a major final since 1996. 

Wakefield haven’t appeared in a major final since 1979 and haven’t won anything since 1968. They’ve been in SL since 1999. 

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, Chris22 said:

I haven't read this thread...but that title is a hell of an overreaction!

I wish putting Leigh in Super League was the sport's biggest ever mistake!

You read the OP?

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

39 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

Wakefield haven’t appeared in a major final since 1979 and haven’t won anything since 1968. They’ve been in SL since 1999. 

Minor point: I thought The Yorkshire Cup was a decent competition in it's time tbf.

[Mr Plow]

1 hour ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

Minor point: I thought The Yorkshire Cup was a decent competition in it's time tbf.

I dont think it would be considered a major comp now though. I think the three major trophies are the Grand Final, League Leaders Shield and Challenge Cup

[dboy]

On 15/04/2021 at 17:51, Mr Plow said:

you really want 12 teams that could win SL

Your first point was about having teams that could win SL - that's 4. You then tried to widen the net to teams in finals i.e. losers, to prop up your failed point. Tut tut.

The Yorkshire Cup, along the Lancs Cup, was indeed a major trophy of the time. It hasn't been played for since Wakefield won it.

In that sense Wakey have held a major trophy every year for the last 20+ years.

 

[redjonn]

I guess it wouldn't say much for our sport/game if because a club isn't likely to win silverware that the entertainment value is so poor as not to bother attend/watch.

Yep adds added interest if competing for silverware but it shouldn't be so important. Doesn't seem to impact other sports.

[The Frying Scotsman]

On 16/04/2021 at 18:44, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

Minor point: I thought The Yorkshire Cup was a decent competition in it's time 

i posted recently on another thread that our fanbase seems to live in the past...

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, redjonn said:

I guess it wouldn't say much for our sport/game if because a club isn't likely to win silverware that the entertainment value is so poor as not to bother attend/watch.

Yep adds added interest if competing for silverware but it shouldn't be so important. Doesn't seem to impact other sports.

Ask the Wigan,Leeds,Saints fans ?

[Oxford]

Whose season is already over?

Salford Red Devils they're singing your song!

[RayCee]

I was reading recently that a newly formed club in Norway was initially focused on success on the field but wasn’t achieving it. They then decided to accept they didn’t have the roster to be at the top so instead refocused on developing the club’s profile within the area. They were very successful in that and it’s building a better foundation for future success. 
So while many fans see on field performance as success, developing a strong club in the community is what others would call success. If a club is working on engaging with the community, then it’s season is never over.

[Oxford]

On 20/04/2021 at 10:25, RayCee said:

If a club is working on engaging with the community, then it’s season is never over.

Well SRD are doing that and it still looks like curtains to me.