Putting Leigh in SL is the biggest mistake RL ever made (Merged threads)

[Saint Toppy]

4 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

How many Super League quality players did France have before Catalans were admitted to Super League? 

Virtually no different to now. They were uncompetitive then with a small pool of players to select from and they're uncompetitive now with an equally small pool of players to select from. And that will never change while they're allowed to just fill their team with non-French players.

[The Daddy]

3 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Virtually no different to now. They were uncompetitive then with a small pool of players to select from and they're uncompetitive now with an equally small pool of players to select from. And that will never change while they're allowed to just fill their team with non-French players.

Thats a lie and you know it. France have many many more players in SL and playing professionally since Catalan were admitted 

[Scubby]

Just now, Saint Toppy said:

Virtually no different to now. They were uncompetitive then with a small pool of players to select from and they're uncompetitive now with an equally small pool of players to select from. And that will never change while they're allowed to just fill their team with non-French players.

They are uncompetitive because international RL is now full of heritage players. Even GB put 3/4 heritage players in the squad in 2019. Tonga, Samoa and Fiji are almost exclusively heritage players. How would France do against Fiji, Tonga, PNG, Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Samoa if they had to play 80% born or 1st gen players? They have not got any worse since SL began the rules have just changed.

[Scubby]

Imagine if Leigh got relegated in 2021 and then had to go into Elite 1 in France, pay airfares for all the visiting part-time teams to travel to Leigh. It sounds ludicrous - that is because it is. Relegating and promoting French clubs from within the UK Championship is a complete waste of money the game of RL doesn't have. It makes no sense whatsoever - the clubs below SL are penniless. 

[Scubby]

Toulouse are currently playing in a competition where other skint part-time times don't have to play unless they can get there and back to games in an afternoon. Yet they are in scrap to be able to play in the elite competition in our game against full-time squads. How is this preparation for Wigan, St Helens, Catalans, Leeds, Warrington etc? 

It is just wasting a #### load of money the game doesn't have to go around in the same circle. We might not want to change but other sports will and we will morph into a never ending monty python argument sketch.

[Saint Toppy]

11 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They are uncompetitive because international RL is now full of heritage players. Even GB put 3/4 heritage players in the squad in 2019. Tonga, Samoa and Fiji are almost exclusively heritage players. How would France do against Fiji, Tonga, PNG, Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Samoa if they had to play 80% born or 1st gen players? They have not got any worse since SL began the rules have just changed.

Well thats a joke !!!

Part of the argument put forward for admitting Catalans was that they would improve their national side. Saying they're no worse if just laughable given they were pi$$ poor to start with and they're just as pi$$ poor now.

[Davo5]

Putting any team into Superleague at such a late date and with reduced central funding was the sports biggest mistakes,but it seems to be fulfilling Superleague’s agenda of having a sacrificial lamb whilst evening up the number of clubs.

[Saint Toppy]

17 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

How about the massive commercial upside, having 3 sell outs and adding the South of France's capital city with it's half a million population?

1 - How do you know they will get sell-out crowds at the 2 derby games - you don't - so thats just pure speculation

2 - Commerical upside for who ? The 2 French clubs make make a few extra quid each year for these 2 games, but who else in the game benefits ? Would having 2 French clubs guarantee the game gets additional revenues from TV deals, Sponsorship etc. ? Doubtful given the current economic climate, and any claim otherwise is pure speculation & wishful thinking.

[Scubby]

17 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Well thats a joke !!!

Part of the argument put forward for admitting Catalans was that they would improve their national side. Saying they're no worse if just laughable given they were pi$$ poor to start with and they're just as pi$$ poor now.

You do realise that when France played GB in the early 1990s and GB won by 50 points it was largely part-time French players against a few GB full timers but mostly part time?

Now if Catalans didn't exist today it would be Bateman, Tomkins, Whitehead, Williams, Walmsley etc. running around against part-time pub players in E1 at Limoux, Carcassonne and Villenueve on 5k euro contracts? Any French player with talent would be earning full time money in RU. I'm sure you can understand and compute this?

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

According to a recent 5 Live RL podcast, York were told explicitly that of all the criteria, on field competitiveness was the one deemed most important by the powers that be...

In which case Fev should have been ahead of Leigh (if you exclude TO because of Covid). The whole thing was a farce. 

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

In which case Fev should have been ahead of Leigh (if you exclude TO because of Covid). The whole thing was a farce. 

Somebody needed decking in this sorry excuse for a process. Luckily, one man had exactly that and sealed the deal!

[Saint Toppy]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You do realise that when France played GB in 1992 and won by 50 points it was largely part-time French players against a few GB full timers but mostly part time?

Now if Catalans didn't exist today it would be Bateman, Tomkins, Whitehead, Williams, Walmsley etc. running around against part-time pub players in E1 at Limoux, Carcassonne and Villenueve on 5k euro contracts? I'm sure you can understand and compute this?

 You do realise that since Catalans were admitted and had full time players they've had just as many hammerings from England / GB

2007 - 42-14

2008 - 56-8

2009 - 66-12

2010 - 60-6

2011 - 32-18

2012 - 44-6 and 48-4 

2013 - 34-6

2015 - 84-4

2016 - 40-6

2017 - 36-6

2018 - 44-6

And many of those games were against a 2nd string England team not a full GB team. 

So how exactly has having Catalans in SL benefitted their National team, because it certainly hasn't improved their results against England / GB ?

[Scubby]

Just now, Saint Toppy said:

 You do realise that since Catalans were admitted and had full time players they've had just as many hammerings from England / GB

2007 - 42-14

2008 - 56-8

2009 - 66-12

2010 - 60-6

2011 - 32-18

2012 - 44-6 and 48-4 

2013 - 34-6

2015 - 84-4

2016 - 40-6

2017 - 36-6

2018 - 44-6

And many of those games were against a 2nd string England team not a full GB team. 

So how exactly has having Catalans in SL benefitted their National team, because it certainly hasn't improved their results against England / GB ?

Had it not been for full time RL in France (i.e. Catalans and now Toulouse), there would be no French national team at all. The standard would be so low they would be on par with the USA right now. France has 0 access to heritage players, so 0 heritage players and E1 pub standard part-time players would be 70-0 at half time against any top 8 team in the world. All talented RL players in France would be playing full time RU and earning money. RL in France would be non existent. It is not that difficult to understand. Honestly it isn't. 

 

[Spidey]

Talk about over dramatic. Leigh haven’t played any of their relegation rivals yet.  I don’t think it’d do SL any harm them replacing Wakey, Hull KR or Salford for instance

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Talk about over dramatic. Leigh haven’t played any of their relegation rivals yet.  I don’t think it’d do SL any harm them replacing Wakey, Hull KR or Salford for instance

Also, DB could well make some late season signings from struggling (or out of contention NRL) clubs if they are in with a shot with a few games to go. Wakefield and Salford and Hull KR won't have that luxury. 

[Mathius Hellwege]

they, the M62 chairmen, wanted away fans - only rationale...very sad

[sweaty craiq]

This thread is better than a monty python sketch. All RL problems can be seen in just a few posts, we still have fools thinking because they are located in a city the crowds and sponsors will come, so let’s kill a few of the foundations to make way for them.

London is a big place and has had a club for 40 years with tens of thousands of RL folk in residence, 20000 gates every week and no need for a philanthropist to fight the wolves off.

Any one who has been to TO knows they have very few fans and are almost unknown in the city, we have been taken to the wrong ground twice via taxi!! The long term deal SHOULD help them, and indeed I hope it will, but my greatest hope in all this is the sport see’s the need for expanding SL not destroying its foundations, two tens is a must not an option.

Specifically on the selection process, Leigh were the easy option and far ahead of the rest at that stage. The Championship squad is thin for SL, even before missing 7/8 players but there is cash in the bank and no borders to cross

[binosh]

2 hours ago, The Daddy said:

I just want to understand the logic for putting Leigh in SL coz I still don't understand. 

Toulouse has just signed a 9 year deal with Stade Toulousain that not just allows them to play at the iconic ground but gives them a major presence at the complex. In addition to that they now have backing from the various local authorities which in France is significant. With the partnerships they have in place  I'm confident in saying that over the next few years Toulouse will quickly become one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

The commercial partnerships that Toulouse have are on a different scale to Leigh's and it gives the RL exposure to the 4th biggest city in France that has a population in the  metropolitan area of over 1.3 million, plus many more across the South West region. It would have increased the competition's presence in France and the number of professional players which allows the France national team to become more and more competitive and create a natural rival for England on its doorstep, that has so many commercial benefits in itself to UK RL. 

We were told over and over that they had an 'oven baked squad' ready to compete. If that's the case why are they now loaning a player from another SL club? On paper, their squad wasn't any better than Toulouse's and they finished below them in the league table in recent seasons.

Apparently the bids were assessed by an 'independent panel of experts' yet there has been no explanation into the reasoning behind the decision. 

To top it all off the majority of people in this country don't even know where Leigh is and thought that the parish of Leigh-on-Sea in Essex had entered a team into SL.

It was a terrible decision which says so much about the mindset of people running the sport here. It's several months on and I'm still disgusted 

He’s taken London’s first 2 thumpings really badly........

[The Daddy]

17 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

This thread is better than a monty python sketch. All RL problems can be seen in just a few posts, we still have fools thinking because they are located in a city the crowds and sponsors will come, so let’s kill a few of the foundations to make way for them.

London is a big place and has had a club for 40 years with tens of thousands of RL folk in residence, 20000 gates every week and no need for a philanthropist to fight the wolves off.

Any one who has been to TO knows they have very few fans and are almost unknown in the city, we have been taken to the wrong ground twice via taxi!! The long term deal SHOULD help them, and indeed I hope it will, but my greatest hope in all this is the sport see’s the need for expanding SL not destroying its foundations, two tens is a must not an option.

Specifically on the selection process, Leigh were the easy option and far ahead of the rest at that stage. The Championship squad is thin for SL, even before missing 7/8 players but there is cash in the bank and no borders to cross

Yep, Leigh was the easy option. Exactly my point 

[The Daddy]

18 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

This thread is better than a monty python sketch. All RL problems can be seen in just a few posts, we still have fools thinking because they are located in a city the crowds and sponsors will come, so let’s kill a few of the foundations to make way for them.

London is a big place and has had a club for 40 years with tens of thousands of RL folk in residence, 20000 gates every week and no need for a philanthropist to fight the wolves off.

Any one who has been to TO knows they have very few fans and are almost unknown in the city, we have been taken to the wrong ground twice via taxi!! The long term deal SHOULD help them, and indeed I hope it will, but my greatest hope in all this is the sport see’s the need for expanding SL not destroying its foundations, two tens is a must not an option.

Specifically on the selection process, Leigh were the easy option and far ahead of the rest at that stage. The Championship squad is thin for SL, even before missing 7/8 players but there is cash in the bank and no borders to cross

Double post 

[The Blues Ox]

That was a fun read especially the parts mentioning production of players. 
 

Halifax has not had a SL team in over 15 years but the area of Calderdale still produces more SL players than the whole of France.

[Derwent]

2 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Leigh are cannon fodder right now 

That just reinforces the point really, if Leigh are cannon fodder having invested such a sum then what would the others have been without it ?

What good would it have done any of those clubs to be the whipping boys of SL, doomed to cricket scores against them every week and certain relegation ?

There's an old saying among club chairmen - it takes years of good results to build up a fan base but it only takes a few bad results to lose one.

[Southerner80]

2 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

How many Super League quality players did France have before Catalans were admitted to Super League? 

This is a fair point. Les Dracs have certainly brought through alot of SL players down the years. For both themselves and other clubs.

Escare, Gigot, Navarette, Pellisier etc all playing or recently played SL for English clubs.

TO in SL will be likely to increase this pool of Players and that will help France.

[Just Browny]

Put Toppy on ignore, will do you all the world of good.

I harbour no ill will against Leigh who have put their money where their mouth is and stepped up. I also agree that Toulouse wouldn't have worked this year: not because of anything to do with that club, but because of Covid.

So I hope Toulouse's time will come. That said, someone on here got taken to the wrong ground in a taxi a couple of times (just a guess: maybe you gave the taxi driver the wrong address?) so maybe they are not such a big prospect after all.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Because one French club with no rival games in one of the poorest parts of France and fear of relegation means that it isnt as good.  

Two teams, locked in with minimum French players in matchday squad and we have: Two sellouts plus one game that French RL can take on the road and enough French RL players getting regular games for an annual Eng vs France match in France not to be a blowout. 

Commercial opportunities explode.

You think Toulouse would sell out the Wallon for a league game against Catalans?