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Putting Leigh in SL is the biggest mistake RL ever made (Merged threads)


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32 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Some good points and it is the eternal question. However, SL does need pressure from outside putting on it to break the cycle.

At the moment, 4-5 teams are holding onto the hope that they are not the one to finish bottom - that is it in terms of their existence and ambition. If some clubs are knocking on the door with better facilities, similar crowds and a wider geographical footprint then it is either change or die. The only logic for Wakefield, Castleford and Featherstone being in SL for example is if all three are booming entities with excellent crowds and facilities. If it is just to make up the numbers then pressure on their existence in SL is fair game isn't it?

I think we need to be patient and let these ambitious, "trendy" clubs grow, organically, hopefully in 10 years time then we could have 20 clubs strong enough to be able to make RL competitive, we need to work from the bottom up, get the game promoted, pushed and played in schools, colleges, universities, get communities involved in the game, rather than just expect them to buy season tickets and turn up, we need to forget about the Toronto/PSG/Crusaders model of just buying/creating a squad of players and letting them get on with it with no foundations to build upon.

The cycle will never be broken by just dumping non heartland clubs into the competition and expecting them to lay the golden egg, Newcastle, Toulouse, York and possibly other areas, including the South East are doing things the right way, who knows, IF the RLWC is a success then hopefully we learn from the mistakes of 2013 and push the game further to the masses on the back of it.

Only when half of the championship/L1 clubs are strong enough financially and organically, will we start to see the weaker SL clubs be displaced and their place taken by a stronger club from below.

We can't just plonk Newcastle in SL because they've got a big population, a nice ground and some new, local, companies may want to sponsor them, which is what people seem to be craving!

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25 minutes ago, meast said:

So, you're basing it on "what ifs"?

Because York, Toulouse and Newcastle have bigger population centres and commercial opportunities, it doesn't mean that that will automatically translate to a 2nd tier rugby league club with no on field success, nor do these teams instantly "grow the game", the game needs to be grown organically, not just fast tracking non heartland clubs because they have a bigger population than say, Batley, Leigh or Featherstone.

Everything you say is based on assumption with no real evidence that any of York, Toulouse, or Newcastle will ever be anything other than a mid size, but ambitious championship club.

I know I may sound like an anti expansionist, but I am far from it, I want the game to expand, I want to see vibrant clubs in major cities attracting investment and new support into the game, but it has to be done properly and over time, and as yet, there's absolutely no evidence to me that any of those 3 clubs are any better on or off the field than the current SL clubs.

I agree with this, except for equating York with the likes of Newcastle.

York isn't an expansion club, it is the reincarnation of a club which began playing RL in 1898 and were regularly in the top tier up to 1986.

You can be in York and only 15 miles from Castleford or closer to the M62 (peace be upon it) than east Hull.

There are flourishing community clubs in the city with long histories.

They have been through some difficult times and are now making good progress. It is similar to equating Oldham or Swinton to Newcastle if they were to have a resurgence.

York's story over the last few years is the organic growth you (and I) advocate following a period of stagnation. Good luck to them in carrying it on.

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So, should Leigh have been elevated then?

I think that it was the best worst decision, under the circumstances.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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6 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I agree with this, except for equating York with the likes of Newcastle.

York isn't an expansion club, it is the reincarnation of a club which began playing RL in 1898 and were regularly in the top tier up to 1986.

You can be in York and only 15 miles from Castleford or closer to the M62 (peace be upon it) than east Hull.

There are flourishing community clubs in the city with long histories.

They have been through some difficult times and are now making good progress. It is similar to equating Oldham or Swinton to Newcastle if they were to have a resurgence.

York's story over the last few years is the organic growth you (and I) advocate following a period of stagnation. Good luck to them in carrying it on.

Absolutely, I would love to see York flourish, an away game at York would be a welcome addition, but as much as they're doing things right, they are nowhere near to being an alternative to any of the SL clubs, yet some people seem to think that they've suddenly become the beacon of hope for rugby league.

They have done extremely well to build themselves up to where they are, from where they were, a bit like Huddersfield in the mid 90's we weren't ready for SL when we took over PSG's place in 1998 and it put us back few years, we lost support, we lost sponsors, our name was tarnished, and still is to some extent, it took us another 10 years to become a competitive force in SL.

By pushing York,and even Newcastle now when there is nothing to suggest they are even ready to compete at the top of the championship is just desperation from people, determined to see the end of clubs like Wakefield, Salford, Huddersfield, etc and we must be patient and let them develop and compete organically so we don't end up losing all the good work they've been doing from the game.

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7 minutes ago, meast said:

Absolutely, I would love to see York flourish, an away game at York would be a welcome addition, but as much as they're doing things right, they are nowhere near to being an alternative to any of the SL clubs, yet some people seem to think that they've suddenly become the beacon of hope for rugby league.

They have done extremely well to build themselves up to where they are, from where they were, a bit like Huddersfield in the mid 90's we weren't ready for SL when we took over PSG's place in 1998 and it put us back few years, we lost support, we lost sponsors, our name was tarnished, and still is to some extent, it took us another 10 years to become a competitive force in SL.

By pushing York,and even Newcastle now when there is nothing to suggest they are even ready to compete at the top of the championship is just desperation from people, determined to see the end of clubs like Wakefield, Salford, Huddersfield, etc and we must be patient and let them develop and compete organically so we don't end up losing all the good work they've been doing from the game.

I think a beacon of hope is what they are, but hope is all it is in terms of Super League at the moment.

I'm not one for promoting (or relegating) teams for anything other than on field performance. If/when York are ready for Super League, they'll demonstrate it on the field.

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3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Leigh were put into Super League for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to get relegated. Small time clubs like Wakefield, Hull kr, Salford and Castleford are happy with that as it preserves their Super League status for another year. 

Leeds are probably pretty grateful too 😉

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3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I can only comment on my experiences Pecetto , not making it up , although it seems on here , unless you can back up your statements with a government funded survey published that can be linked to , you are a liar 

You especially seem to be the one who gives lessons to everyone. 

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4 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

What odds will some mastermind give me that Leigh will be in SL 2022?

Leigh may only need 5 wins to stay up. Wakefield, Salford and Hull KR in particular will struggle to get more than that with the shortened season. Leigh are the weakest club because of prep time and squad size but I said this before, DB is probably the only one in that bottom pack who may put his hands in his pockets with a third of the season to go and sign some players for the run in. All to play for IMO.

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On 16/04/2021 at 10:12, The Daddy said:

I just want to understand the logic for putting Leigh in SL coz I still don't understand. 

Toulouse has just signed a 9 year deal with Stade Toulousain that not just allows them to play at the iconic ground but gives them a major presence at the complex. In addition to that they now have backing from the various local authorities which in France is significant. With the partnerships they have in place  I'm confident in saying that over the next few years Toulouse will quickly become one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

The commercial partnerships that Toulouse have are on a different scale to Leigh's and it gives the RL exposure to the 4th biggest city in France that has a population in the  metropolitan area of over 1.3 million, plus many more across the South West region. It would have increased the competition's presence in France and the number of professional players which allows the France national team to become more and more competitive and create a natural rival for England on its doorstep, that has so many commercial benefits in itself to UK RL. 

We were told over and over that they had an 'oven baked squad' ready to compete. If that's the case why are they now loaning a player from another SL club? On paper, their squad wasn't any better than Toulouse's and they finished below them in the league table in recent seasons.

Apparently the bids were assessed by an 'independent panel of experts' yet there has been no explanation into the reasoning behind the decision. 

To top it all off the majority of people in this country don't even know where Leigh is and thought that the parish of Leigh-on-Sea in Essex had entered a team into SL.

It was a terrible decision which says so much about the mindset of people running the sport here. It's several months on and I'm still disgusted 

Well said indeed.

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1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

What odds will some mastermind give me that Leigh will be in SL 2022?

I think it’s pretty much guaranteed as I don’t think they’ll be promotion from the Championship 

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I think it’s pretty much guaranteed as I don’t think they’ll be promotion from the Championship 

Even though SL have said that there definitely will be - do you know something that they don't?

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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16 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Even though SL have said that there definitely will be - do you know something that they don't?

Not at all. Just a hunch. Could turn out to be wrong.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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34 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I just dont think clubs that are ready to exploit the commercial opportunities that come from being in SL and on sky should be held back because clubs currently in there cant or wont.

Make it 14, reduce the tv money accordingly and let the Toulouse Yorks and Newcastles exploit those opportunities whilst clubs that cant will be the ones who get relegated. 

You’ve named York and Newcastle, two part-time teams. They’re growing organically and naturally and it’s commendable what’s gone on at both clubs but they’re not ready for Super League. They should be left to grow for now, with longer term ambitions for Super League. Switching out a fully professional side with some of their ducks in order for a part time team with fewer ducks in order is exactly what we cannot do.

We need a Super League of twelve clubs (that doesn’t mean those who are in Super League presently) with minimum standards met by all. Not some, all. Moving to fourteen creates more clubs at the top with issues and smaller central funding. Its further diluting the sport and is exactly what we did the last time we went to fourteen. It’s a terrible proposition right now and only serves to end loop fixtures and nothing more. 

Fourteen needs to be a long term goal. The NRL could expand tomorrow but they’re not just going to drop and ill prepared and poorly strategised side into its competition, the same for various American sports. That’s not how growth works. 

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6 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yes but you know,  as I do,  the second they are in SL they would go full time so that arguement doesnt hold water. 

14 teams now rests on the theory that I am happy to defend that in SL York and Newcastle would be more than capable of making up the difference in a spread of tv money with comercial income. 

 

Of course it does, it shows both aren’t in a position to be considered for promotion yet and throwing them in ill prepared would be disastrous. 

 

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On 16/04/2021 at 07:23, Spidey said:

Talk about over dramatic. Leigh haven’t played any of their relegation rivals yet.  I don’t think it’d do SL any harm them replacing Wakey, Hull KR or Salford for instance

Hull KR have a strong fan base. The other two don't.

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