Putting Leigh in SL is the biggest mistake RL ever made (Merged threads)

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Personally, and it's maybe an age thing, I am for P+R, but if the powers that be decide to return to Licensing, there will be criteria to be met. So surely whatever the criteria is, Clubs already in the League should have to be at that standard before it commences. Then Clubs who aspire to reach the Promised Land cannot have any excuse to point the finger at existing Clubs being let off the hook. If they do that and their is a fair pathway for ambitious Clubs to be included it should start in say two years time to give all Clubs currently in there and those outside to improve their standards to the required level, whilst maintaining one up and one down until then. Tin hat at the ready!

This is actually a great point. For example if licensing decided that there would be only one, or a maximum of two, clubs from the greater Wakefield area it should be game on for all 3 clubs to prove their worth. It's what you are going to do to benefit the future competition that counts, not what you have muddled on with getting £1.6m in the bank from central handout every year.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, ShropshireBull said:

No it shows they built a squad within the budgets for the level they are currently at and the (lack of) commercial opportunities it provides. Were they in SL,  that calculus would alter. 

They’re miles off Super League at present. They could well be a team ready for Super League in the future. Dropping clubs in ill prepared and without the appropriate aides has never worked, it’s what we’ve always done and gone back to square one, looking all confused when it inevitably doesn’t work. Let Newcastle walk; don’t push them to run too soon. 

[Hela Wigmen]

6 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Personally, and it's maybe an age thing, I am for P+R, but if the powers that be decide to return to Licensing, there will be criteria to be met. So surely whatever the criteria is, Clubs already in the League should have to be at that standard before it commences. Then Clubs who aspire to reach the Promised Land cannot have any excuse to point the finger at existing Clubs being let off the hook. If they do that and their is a fair pathway for ambitious Clubs to be included it should start in say two years time to give all Clubs currently in there and those outside to improve their standards to the required level, whilst maintaining one up and one down until then. Tin hat at the ready!

Exactly this in terms of licencing. We can’t go expanding the league before getting the league itself up to a high enough standard. 

[Gooleboy]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

This is actually a great point. For example if licensing decided that there would be only one, or a maximum of two, clubs from the greater Wakefield area it should be game on for all 3 clubs to prove their worth. It's what you are going to do to benefit the future competition that counts, not what you have muddled on with getting £1.6m in the bank from central handout every year.

Whatever they decide to do, fairness in the system is crucial so as not to have Clubs feeling alienated.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

This is a circular argument.  Already answered why it isnt the same as París or other expansion clubs and you arent dropping them in, you are creating more spots so teams with modern infrastructure and greater commercial opportunities can start to put pressure on those at the bottom to improve and eventually challenge. 

You don’t need more spots. You need to fill the spots we have with clubs with modern infrastructure, decent stadia, good player pathways and decent crowds. The move to fourteen would be as disastrous as it was last time we went to fourteen without first taking the time to push minimum standards on the twelve we do have. 

Newcastle are in their infancy. They need to keep growing naturally, as they have done in the third tier. They’re still a way off Super League, at present. 

[Harry Stottle]

14 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The only way you can build a top side on a £1.9m cap is to have an amazing infrastructure of juniors coming through to fit out the squad. It is no coincidence that the sides like Wigan and Saints who invest the most into academy and junior pathways over decades keep being consistently at the top of the table.

You cannot buy a top team from scratch on such a pitiful cap level. Leigh and other clubs are finding that the players are simply not there off the shelf.

Quite agree, Leigh have applied for permission to run an academy, plenty local Leigh lads have been going to other clubs, Wigan most noticeably who have recently offered 6 Leigh lads a scholarship and only 2 or 3 Wigan lads being offered the same.

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2020/10/18/2021-scholars-announced/

 

[yipyee]

On 17/04/2021 at 09:18, Harry Stottle said:

Let me just put into perspective what those supposedly 25 new clubs would bring, your whole analysis is based upon the spread of the playing pool, so considering all the rest of the 'Heartland' area's who have numerous community clubs well in excess of 25+ can't produce enough player's for our professional ranks (supplemented by 90+ overseas player's) that new start up's with novice participation, very probably devoid of an 'elite' pathway structure it is going to take hell of a long time for the area to produce pro player's, I would suggest the idea is on par with all those who believed Toronto would be producing enough quality player's in 10 years. RL is an organic product it takes years to nuture and grow it doesn't happen overnight.

Celtic Crusaders produced a team of home grown proffessionals in 3 years,

London had a bash at an acedemy and produced some top level players with a handfull of community clubs also

It can be done and more clubs doesnt mean more quality.

[JDINTHEHIZZOUSE]

A lot of people are not understanding this thread, certainly it's title.

The decision to put any  team into super league would have been more appropriate, however, one team had to be the sacrificial lamb and we all know why. That said, for the growth of the game, I advocated for Toulouse to be promoted, as did many other Leigh fans.

Whilst we can all speculate as to who would have done a better job, the truth of the matter is that no team, leigh, toulouse, fev etc could step up to the mantle, certainly not within the time constraints and financial handicaps.

Sure, I want to see a successful Leigh, i am a Leigh fan/sufferer so I carry a natural biased. That said, I want every team to grow and succeed. So, we hit a detente. Would Sky have allowed an 11 team competition for one season until the sport sorts it's self out? doubtful, so, here we are, we can moan all we want, but we are stuck with what we have become, not what we could be.

[Oldbear]

3 hours ago, JDINTHEHIZZOUSE said:

A lot of people are not understanding this thread, certainly it's title.

The decision to put any  team into super league would have been more appropriate, however, one team had to be the sacrificial lamb and we all know why. That said, for the growth of the game, I advocated for Toulouse to be promoted, as did many other Leigh fans.

Whilst we can all speculate as to who would have done a better job, the truth of the matter is that no team, leigh, toulouse, fev etc could step up to the mantle, certainly not within the time constraints and financial handicaps.

Sure, I want to see a successful Leigh, i am a Leigh fan/sufferer so I carry a natural biased. That said, I want every team to grow and succeed. So, we hit a detente. Would Sky have allowed an 11 team competition for one season until the sport sorts it's self out? doubtful, so, here we are, we can moan all we want, but we are stuck with what we have become, not what we could be.

Best post on this thread to date, the need to preserve Magic and satisfy Sky meant that an 11 team comp was not on, despite it being the only fair outcome. The short timescale for the 12th club to be ready was already designed to ensure that team finished bottom, the financial distribution shortfall was designed to scare away a few more potential applicants. COVID ensured that Toulouse could not step up, so who was left and still willing? 

[GUBRATS]

13 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Best post on this thread to date, the need to preserve Magic and satisfy Sky meant that an 11 team comp was not on, despite it being the only fair outcome. The short timescale for the 12th club to be ready was already designed to ensure that team finished bottom, the financial distribution shortfall was designed to scare away a few more potential applicants. COVID ensured that Toulouse could not step up, so who was left and still willing? 

The SL relegation experts

[Harry Stottle]

17 hours ago, JDINTHEHIZZOUSE said:

A lot of people are not understanding this thread, certainly it's title.

The decision to put any  team into super league would have been more appropriate, however, one team had to be the sacrificial lamb and we all know why. That said, for the growth of the game, I advocated for Toulouse to be promoted, as did many other Leigh fans.

Whilst we can all speculate as to who would have done a better job, the truth of the matter is that no team, leigh, toulouse, fev etc could step up to the mantle, certainly not within the time constraints and financial handicaps.

Sure, I want to see a successful Leigh, i am a Leigh fan/sufferer so I carry a natural biased. That said, I want every team to grow and succeed. So, we hit a detente. Would Sky have allowed an 11 team competition for one season until the sport sorts it's self out? doubtful, so, here we are, we can moan all we want, but we are stuck with what we have become, not what we could be.

I have given you a like for the rudiments of your post JD, but you had an idea what would happen, as did I, most other fans of Rugby League and at the time of the announcement even some of those who do not have much time for Leigh on these pages registered their feelings of how unfair it was with the cap disparity.

Now what I don't understand, is knowing the situation beforehand why so many clubs/Owner's/Chairmen/CEO'S put up their hand to be as you put it "The Sacrificial Lamb" and especially and no more so than Leigh who put so much effort in their presentation to secure the spot.

All I can assume is that Mr Beaumont has put all his eggs into the basket of - there will be no relegation this season - or if as some suggest he has the personal money to spend and is awaiting further into the season before speculating why didn't he do that when Leigh first got the nod, as I have stated previously 'Love Rugby League' only days after Leigh were promoted presented a list of available out of contract player's both here and overseas who would have been great additions for a squad with plenty of spare room for the job in hand, as Gubrats says there are not many available player's now, correct a lot of those player's secured clubs, but if Leigh had acted quickly - if Mr Beaumont had the money available - there would have been. 

 

[sweaty craiq]

47 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have given you a like for the rudiments of your post JD, but you had an idea what would happen, as did I, most other fans of Rugby League and at the time of the announcement even some of those who do not have much time for Leigh on these pages registered their feelings of how unfair it was with the cap disparity.

Now what I don't understand, is knowing the situation beforehand why so many clubs/Owner's/Chairmen/CEO'S put up their hand to be as you put it "The Sacrificial Lamb" and especially and no more so than Leigh who put so much effort in their presentation to secure the spot.

All I can assume is that Mr Beaumont has put all his eggs into the basket of - there will be no relegation this season - or if as some suggest he has the personal money to spend and is awaiting further into the season before speculating why didn't he do that when Leigh first got the nod, as I have stated previously 'Love Rugby League' only days after Leigh were promoted presented a list of available out of contract player's both here and overseas who would have been great additions for a squad with plenty of spare room for the job in hand, as Gubrats says there are not many available player's now, correct a lot of those player's secured clubs, but if Leigh had acted quickly - if Mr Beaumont had the money available - there would have been. 

 

Who were these players available end of December, Harry?

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Who were these players available end of December, Harry?

I have tried to find the 'Love Rugby League' posts which contained the lists but I was unable to locate it, perhap's someone more computor savvy than me will oblige, Anthony Gelling was on the list, I stated on another forum at the time he was a player Leigh should target.

[sweaty craiq]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have tried to find the 'Love Rugby League' posts which contained the lists but I was unable to locate it, perhap's someone more computor savvy than me will oblige, Anthony Gelling was on the list, I stated on another forum at the time he was a player Leigh should target.

Harry - remember these were what was left !! You also had numerous issues at that time. Most had signed elsewhere, many didnt want to come to UK due to covid restrictions, a few had serious off field issues (Gelling being one) and budgets were being decided with SL/RFL

BRISBANE BRONCOS - Jamil Hopoate, Jordan Kahu, Richard Kennar, Issac Luke, Ilikena Vudogo

CANBERRA RAIDERS -   Sebastian Kris

CANTERBURY BULLDOGS - Tim Lafai

CRONULLA SHARKS - Bryson Goodwin, Kayleb Milne

GOLD COAST TITANS - Nathan Peats, Tyrone Roberts

MANLY SEA EAGLES - Brendan Elliot, Danny Levi, Tony Williams

MELBOURNE STORM - Cameron Smith

NEWCASTLE KNIGHTS -  Tyronne Roberts-Davis

NEW ZEALAND WARRIORS - Leivaha Pulu, King Vuniyayawa

NORTH QUEENSLAND COWBOYS - Daniel Russell

PARRAMATTA EELS - Rhys Davies

PENRITH PANTHERS - Dean Blore, Pat Hollis, Braydon McGrady

ST GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS - Joe Lovodua, Tristan Sailor

SOUTH SYDNEY RABBITOHS - Tom Amone, Corey Dennis, Kurt Dillon, Ky Rodwell

SYDNEY ROOSTERS - Sonny Bill Williams

WESTS TIGERS - Oliver Clark, Dylan Smith

 

Please tell me how many of these have signed to SL? Two to us and we went after 2 others that I know about

[Harry Stottle]

52 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Harry - remember these were what was left !! You also had numerous issues at that time. Most had signed elsewhere, many didnt want to come to UK due to covid restrictions, a few had serious off field issues (Gelling being one) and budgets were being decided with SL/RFL

BRISBANE BRONCOS - Jamil Hopoate, Jordan Kahu, Richard Kennar, Issac Luke, Ilikena Vudogo

CANBERRA RAIDERS -   Sebastian Kris

CANTERBURY BULLDOGS - Tim Lafai

CRONULLA SHARKS - Bryson Goodwin, Kayleb Milne

GOLD COAST TITANS - Nathan Peats, Tyrone Roberts

MANLY SEA EAGLES - Brendan Elliot, Danny Levi, Tony Williams

MELBOURNE STORM - Cameron Smith

NEWCASTLE KNIGHTS -  Tyronne Roberts-Davis

NEW ZEALAND WARRIORS - Leivaha Pulu, King Vuniyayawa

NORTH QUEENSLAND COWBOYS - Daniel Russell

PARRAMATTA EELS - Rhys Davies

PENRITH PANTHERS - Dean Blore, Pat Hollis, Braydon McGrady

ST GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS - Joe Lovodua, Tristan Sailor

SOUTH SYDNEY RABBITOHS - Tom Amone, Corey Dennis, Kurt Dillon, Ky Rodwell

SYDNEY ROOSTERS - Sonny Bill Williams

WESTS TIGERS - Oliver Clark, Dylan Smith

 

Please tell me how many of these have signed to SL? Two to us and we went after 2 others that I know about

Also quite a few in SL Sweaty, can you find those?

[sweaty craiq]

8 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Also quite a few in SL Sweaty, can you find those?

What others?

 

[Snowys Backside]

Has the ball gone wide to West yet ?

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

What others?

 

The list of out of contract SL player's that Anthony Gelling was part of. 

[steve oates]

On 19/04/2021 at 09:01, Harry Stottle said:

Even some of those who do not have much time for Leigh on these pages registered their feelings of how unfair it was with the cap disparity.

Now what I don't understand, is knowing the situation beforehand why so many clubs/Owner's/Chairmen/CEO'S put up their hand to be as you put it "The Sacrificial Lamb" and especially and no more so than Leigh who put so much effort in their presentation to secure the spot.

All I can assume is that Mr Beaumont has put all his eggs into the basket of - there will be no relegation this season...........

 

Very interesting!! There are rumours of a relatively major re-structure for next year albeit probably not as "major" as some would like to see, but the idea that the bottom SL club may be reprieved seems somewant grossly unfair if the top Championship club is not promoted.

That leaves the idea that Superleague could do this going to the "perfect 14"  which I guess most people on here would love to see, but for the life of me I can't see the clubs heavily reduced SKY deal enabling this to happen.   

[tms]

AS a FEV fan looking in on all this nonsense thank you thank you thank you RFL/SL  for picking leigh over FEV

[Harry Stottle]

34 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Very interesting!! There are rumours of a relatively major re-structure for next year albeit probably not as "major" as some would like to see, but the idea that the bottom SL club may be reprieved seems somewant grossly unfair if the top Championship club is not promoted.

That leaves the idea that Superleague could do this going to the "perfect 14"  which I guess most people on here would love to see, but for the life of me I can't see the clubs heavily reduced SKY deal enabling this to happen.   

Thanks for the reply Steve.

So as I see it with your added inclusion, is as I suggested Mr Beaumont hopeful of no relegation this term, or has he been given a 'nod and a wink' about a restructure and SL security for his club?

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, POR said:

AS a FEV fan looking in on all this nonsense thank you thank you thank you RFL/SL  for picking leigh over FEV

I told you umpteen times Postie, as a Leigh fan I didn't want it.

[tms]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I told you umpteen times Postie, as a Leigh fan I didn't want it.

I know HARRY you and me both

[Snowys Backside]

34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Thanks for the reply Steve.

So as I see it with your added inclusion, is as I suggested Mr Beaumont hopeful of no relegation this term, or has he been given a 'nod and a wink' about a restructure and SL security for his club?

Derek had an idea all along I feel that there would be no relegation this season.

He isn't that daft 

[binosh]

I thought it had already been announced that the RFL/SL had confirmed relegation?