Englands full back dilemma.

[Davo5]

3 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

How will Australia solve its full back dilemma?

Based on current form:

 

James Tedesco

Brett Morris. Latrell Mitchell, Tom Trbojevic, Josh Addo-Carr

 

Jack Wighton/Cameron Munster

Daly Cherry-Evans/Cody Walker

 

Interchange:  Ryan Papenhauzen

 

That backline is one that no other nation can compete with.

Sam Tomkins is the only English outside back who should even be mentioned in the same breath as the Australian aces.

DCE we’ve got a chance then.

Didn’t Morris retire from rep footy ?

Tom Turbo has only played 1 game in 6 months,but he’s in on current form ?

[Lowdesert]

19 hours ago, Scubby said:

I am not putting Tomkins near Lockyer in terms of ability, but there are similarities in how Lockyer adapted his game as he got older. Just knowing exactly when to come into the game and how to create impact. It is not all about raw pace at the very top end of the game. Sam is at his peak right now in terms of effectiveness.

Effectiveness is all that matters although the very best are quick and there’s no replacement for speed.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

DCE we’ve got a chance then

We definitely would have a chance!

Unfortunately for us Manfred is not selecting the team and on form Nathan Cleary would be nailed on the for 7 shirt.

[Scubby]

10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

We definitely would have a chance!

Unfortunately for us Manfred is not selecting the team and on form Nathan Cleary would be nailed on the for 7 shirt.

Cleary's time has come. He will be Australia's no.7 for next 5+ years.

[Dunbar]

22 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Cleary's time has come. He will be Australia's no.7 for next 5+ years.

I agree. And I am struggling to think of an Australian 7 who is even close to challenging him. 

[Manfred Mann]

44 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

We definitely would have a chance!

Unfortunately for us Manfred is not selecting the team and on form Nathan Cleary would be nailed on the for 7 shirt.

I agree. I had for some reason overlooked Nathan Cleary.

Obviously Nathan Cleary is the first choice half back...no competition.

Just as George Williams is the first choice English half.

[fighting irish]

I watched the NRL round 6 round-up show last night (their equivalent of our BBC SuperLeague show) and I loved it but my heart sank.

Does anyone really believe we can beat these blokes in the WC?

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I watched the NRL round 6 round-up show last night (their equivalent of our BBC SuperLeague show) and I loved it but my heart sank.

Does anyone really believe we can beat these blokes in the WC?

We will be all on to beat Samoa in the first game mate. Their first choice 17 equal to England's for sure. We are hitting a WC at a bad time with loads from 2017 retired/moving on and the replacements just aren't there (and have played no big games).

[Manfred Mann]

17 hours ago, DavidM said:

Mitchell and Tommy Turbo might end up in the centres 

 

Based on previous wise comments, I have revised my post.

How will Australia solve its full back dilemma?

Based on current form:

James Tedesco

Brett Morris. Latrell Mitchell, Tom Trbojevic, Josh Addo-Carr,

 

Jack Wighton/Cameron Munster

Nathan Cleary.

 

Interchange:  Ryan Papenhauzen

 

This means that there is no place in the Australian team for Clint Gutherson nor for Kalyn Ponga,  nor for A. J. Brimson, nor for Matt Dufty (despite his Hollywood good looks).

I second those who argue that Kalyn Ponga must soon put his hand up for New Zealand if he wants to play international rugby league. Otherwise we must conclude he cherishes playing State of Origin and earning an extra AU$90,000 over a national jersey.

Should Brett Morris decide to retire from international rugby league, then possible future Netherlands World Cup team captain Ryan Papenhuyzen will likely take his place.

[DavidM]

If Tedesco , Papenhuyzen , Mitchell , Tommy Turbo and Josh Addo - The Fox is their back line I would very very much like to go and see it . I honestly couldn’t think of any backline like that  . All hypothetical at present of course but still exciting 

[Scubby]

31 minutes ago, DavidM said:

If Tedesco , Papenhuyzen , Mitchell , Tommy Turbo and Josh Addo - The Fox is their back line I would very very much like to go and see it . I honestly couldn’t think of any backline like that  . All hypothetical at present of course but still exciting 

Scary but amazing. That 2013 backline with Slater, Hayne, Inglis, Morris, Boyd took some beating. They literally don't need outside backs just stack up the full backs.

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Manfred Mann said:

 

Based on previous wise comments, I have revised my post.

How will Australia solve its full back dilemma?

Based on current form:

James Tedesco

Brett Morris. Latrell Mitchell, Tom Trbojevic, Josh Addo-Carr,

 

Jack Wighton/Cameron Munster

Nathan Cleary.

 

Interchange:  Ryan Papenhauzen

 

This means that there is no place in the Australian team for Clint Gutherson nor for Kalyn Ponga,  nor for A. J. Brimson, nor for Matt Dufty (despite his Hollywood good looks).

I second those who argue that Kalyn Ponga must soon put his hand up for New Zealand if he wants to play international rugby league. Otherwise we must conclude he cherishes playing State of Origin and earning an extra AU$90,000 over a national jersey.

Should Brett Morris decide to retire from international rugby league, then possible future Netherlands World Cup team captain Ryan Papenhuyzen will likely take his place.

Bring it on ! Mitchell & Trbojevic are good full backs but bang average centres. Nothing scary at all at seeing those two line up at 3 & 4 .

As for show pony Dufty - There's more chance of catching a cold than him catching a bomb under pressure, to also go with his turnstile defence 

[DC77]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I watched the NRL round 6 round-up show last night (their equivalent of our BBC SuperLeague show) and I loved it but my heart sank.

Does anyone really believe we can beat these blokes in the WC?

In regards to talent the Aussies will always dwarf England due to the difference in player pool, unless RL in England one day becomes comparable in size to Aus. It’s an unfair match up really. 

You’d like to think playing at home would give England some sort of advantage, but in RL I don’t think it really applies, certainly not to anywhere near the degree it does in football. With empty stadiums in the Premier League this is the first season in English top flight history there have been more away wins than home, emphasising (not that it was needed) the pivotal role an atmosphere can bring. Liverpool playing Real Madrid last week at an empty Anfield in the second leg of the Champions League...not many could see a Liverpool comeback, a full Anfield and it’s a different story. RL being much more rapid (pass, pass, pass hit, pass, pass, pass hit...kick, opposition turn..pass, pass, pass hit etc) players barely get time to think/get affected by the crowd, plus the gameplay of RL is much more structured with set routines so less chance for an individual to make an error/poor choice which again means the crowd has less influence. Aussies have won every RLWC for the last fifty years so home or away matters little, in fact the only one they didn’t win was in Aus. 

The virus may play a part. Some Aussies may be reluctant to travel. If it was a series and the Aussies are at full strength then chances of beating them are slim to none, but a one off game the chances improve somewhat. England do have the right coach in place to achieve it.

[Manfred Mann]

4 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Bring it on ! Mitchell & Trbojevic are good full backs but bang average centres. Nothing scary at all at seeing those two line up at 3 & 4 .

As for show pony Dufty - There's more chance of catching a cold than him catching a bomb under pressure, to also go with his turnstile defence 

You are a very astute judge of talent you think? Latrell Mitchell, is a “bang average” centre, you say.

Have you ever heard of the Dally M awards? They are like the Man of Steel but more comprehensive. In 2019 Latrell Mitchell won the award for Dally M Centre of 2019. That was the last year that he played as a centre. The award is never given to “bang average” players. It is always given to outstanding players. 

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Manfred Mann said:

You are a very astute judge of talent you think? Latrell Mitchell, is a “bang average” centre, you say.

Have you ever heard of the Dally M awards? They are like the Man of Steel but more comprehensive. In 2019 Latrell Mitchell won the award for Dally M Centre of 2019. That was the last year that he played as a centre. The award is never given to “bang average” players. It is always given to outstanding players. 

I see you didn't bother to challenge my opinion of Dufty at least. Aside from having pace he's a turnstile who can't catch.

[meast]

Anyway, sorry to interrupt another NRL tugfest, now, about England's full back?

IF Tomkins doesn't make it, who else are we looking at realistically?

Hardaker, yes, Lomax, possibly, but I see Lomax as a half back now.

Which other out and out full back could be in the reckoning?

English, for England, that is!

[Damien]

1 minute ago, meast said:

Anyway, sorry to interrupt another NRL tugfest, now, about England's full back?

IF Tomkins doesn't make it, who else are we looking at realistically?

Hardaker, yes, Lomax, possibly, but I see Lomax as a half back now.

Which other out and out full back could be in the reckoning?

English, for England, that is!

Not that I'm particularly a fan but Widdop has played full back for England previously too.

[meast]

25 minutes ago, Damien said:

Not that I'm particularly a fan but Widdop has played full back for England previously too.

Yes, and always thought he was a better full back than half back, however, would he really be in contention? I was thinking more along the lines of regular full backs, not just people who have played there 10 years ago, that kind of sums England/GB up, make do and mend type of thing

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, meast said:

Yes, and always thought he was a better full back than half back, however, would he really be in contention? I was thinking more along the lines of regular full backs, not just people who have played there 10 years ago, that kind of sums England/GB up, make do and mend type of thing

I actually don't mind half backs at full back, these days the positions are fairly interchangeable and I'd rather have a playmaking fullback than just a runner. I doubt Hardaker will stay at full back for Wigan when French is fit anyhow. Again I'm not advocating Widdop, I have always thought he was overrated anyway, I was just throwing the name out there. I cant say I have seen enough of him during his time at Warrington to really comment.

The trouble is when England/GB play players out of position it is often a complete fudge. However it can work very effectively if done for the right reasons, the Aussies have done it for decades in the backs and picked their best players and accommodated them into positions in the team. The players need to actually have the skills and athleticism for the position though rather what we have done which is to stick the likes of Richard Horne on the wing or Phil Clarke at Stand Off.

[Davo5]

3 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

You are a very astute judge of talent you think? Latrell Mitchell, is a “bang average” centre, you say.

Have you ever heard of the Dally M awards? They are like the Man of Steel but more comprehensive. In 2019 Latrell Mitchell won the award for Dally M Centre of 2019. That was the last year that he played as a centre. The award is never given to “bang average” players. It is always given to outstanding players. 

Mitchell was outstanding in 2018,but in 2019 he got big headed & lazy and despite flashes of brilliance,like in the GF he didn’t perform anywhere near his previous seasons efforts with his performances in Origin & for the Kangaroos abysmal.

[Davo5]

15 minutes ago, meast said:

Yes, and always thought he was a better full back than half back, however, would he really be in contention? I was thinking more along the lines of regular full backs, not just people who have played there 10 years ago, that kind of sums England/GB up, make do and mend type of thing

He’s slower than a box mangle now and would be found out at Test level.

[Vyvyan]

Mitchell has looked very good so far this season.  I can see him being very effective in the centres with those quick hands.

The options they have for fullback are mind boggling.   I don't watch any SL anymore so have no idea if Tomkins is in the same class but I remember his lack of physical presence was badly exposed at the Warriors.  Has he overcome that problem?

[graveyard johnny]

everyone is banging on about cleary while forgetting he will prob be partnered at half back by a not bad number 6 called cameron munster !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[ELBOWSEYE]

6 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

everyone is banging on about cleary while forgetting he will prob be partnered at half back by a not bad number 6 called cameron munster !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I agree but the last bunch of Smith, Slater, Cronk and Thurston were an exceptional spine and no matter who the Aussies pick at fullback it will be a lower quality than that, the Aussies will always have a quality side but will be beatable, ot just depends if you can beat them when it matters. 

[Spotty Herbert]

1 hour ago, meast said:

Yes, and always thought he was a better full back than half back, however, would he really be in contention? I was thinking more along the lines of regular full backs, not just people who have played there 10 years ago, that kind of sums England/GB up, make do and mend type of thing

Jake Connor might be an option, or to go completely left field : Richie Myler. Realistically, though, its Tomkins, Hardaker, then fresh air before those two and Ratchford.