Englands full back dilemma.

[meast]

45 minutes ago, Spotty Herbert said:

Jake Connor might be an option, or to go completely left field : Richie Myler. Realistically, though, its Tomkins, Hardaker, then fresh air before those two and Ratchford.

Connor is a wild shot, whilst he's a terrific player on his day, is he consistent enough? and will he be a Wane type person?

Myler? he'd do a job but so would every other full back, for me Evalds would be up there, maybe Ratchford?

[Wigan Riversider]

On 17/04/2021 at 21:38, Hela Wigmen said:

There’s no dilemma. It’s Sam Tomkins’ position. Tomkins has been the stand out English fullback in the competition for the past couple of years. Hardaker has played there when French has been injured, he’s done well while he’s played there but isn’t close to taking Tomkins’ jumper. 

 

Precisely, there is no dilemma regarding England fullback.

Samkins should have played in the last world cup IMHO. But that's ancient history now.

[Dunbar]

I'm in two minds about the idea Mitchell lining up in the centres for Australia in the World Cup (and against England if we were to meet).

On the one hand he is immensely talented.  Probably the most gifted player playing the game today.  I think he could easily be the best centre in the game.

But on the other hand, he doesn't like centre and tends to sulk and drift in and out of games when he plays there.  He has a tendency to be lazy and not put his up for the hard work... and of course he is easily wound up and has regular brain farts.

I would be much more wary of a Kangaroo team with regular centres like Bradman Best, Zac Lomax or Stephen Crichton than one with 5 full backs shoe horned into the team.

[Scubby]

8 minutes ago, meast said:

Connor is a wild shot, whilst he's a terrific player on his day, is he consistent enough? and will he be a Wane type person?

Myler? he'd do a job but so would every other full back, for me Evalds would be up there, maybe Ratchford?

Evalds is a good shout if Tomkins was injured.

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Not that I'm particularly a fan but Widdop has played full back for England previously too.

In a world cup final where the fabled Aussies scraped a 6 - 0 win.  And that was with Brown playing at 6.

[Spotty Herbert]

17 minutes ago, meast said:

Connor is a wild shot, whilst he's a terrific player on his day, is he consistent enough? and will he be a Wane type person?

Myler? he'd do a job but so would every other full back, for me Evalds would be up there, maybe Ratchford?

Evalds is a good shout if Sam or Zak were unavailable.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I will be in a minority of 1 on this, but if, and it’s a huge if, Hardaker stays at 1 and sustains his current form, then we could do worse than play him at 1 and Tomkins at 7, as he is a better halfback than the other alternatives from what I have seen. Oh, and he is good now, but when he started he was a world beater. 

And as for the Aussies, I reckon Mitchell would be the wrong sort of character for a 6 week tournament a long way from home. 

[Dunbar]

6 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I will be in a minority of 1 on this, but if, and it’s a huge if, Hardaker stays at 1 and sustains his current form, then we could do worse than play him at 1 and Tomkins at 7, as he is a better halfback than the other alternatives from what I have seen. Oh, and he is good now, but when he started he was a world beater. 

And as for the Aussies, I reckon Mitchell would be the wrong sort of character for a 6 week tournament a long way from home. 

Part of me was wondering if Wane only picking three half backs in the squad was an indication that he felt Tomkins could be an option there if needed.

[DavidM]

To me Mitchell is a centre playing fullback and for  all his baggage , if he’ s fit and firing the rest of this year id be very surprised if hes not one centre . Hes just phenomenally talented 

[Manfred Mann]

15 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Mitchell was outstanding in 2018,but in 2019 he got big headed & lazy and despite flashes of brilliance,like in the GF he didn’t perform anywhere near his previous seasons efforts with his performances in Origin & for the Kangaroos abysmal.

 So you  think that the Dally M award for centre of the year 2019 was won by a big headed underperformer?

[Saint Toppy]

14 hours ago, Spotty Herbert said:

Jake Connor might be an option, or to go completely left field : Richie Myler. Realistically, though, its Tomkins, Hardaker, then fresh air before those two and Ratchford.

Connor might have an outside chance but he's still got a lot to prove. Talent was never an issue with him, its his attitude and discipline that make him a liability, especially at test level.

Myler, seriously . He's an average half back and a less than average full back.

Lomax has played there before but he rarely plays there at club level anymore, and his current form at 6 probably makes him the best option for that position. I'm not a fan of the Bennet & McBanana tactics of putting players out of position just to shoehorn them into a team, I'd much prefer to pick the best player you have in each individual position and leave a few bench spots free for players who can cover multiple positions. 

As much as I detest rat boy Somkins he's in form and probably the best option England have for FB.

[Damien]

I've never seen it from Lomax at international level. For me it is Tomkins all day long, bar injury.

[Manfred Mann]

Sam Tomkins is the only full back whom the Australians and Kiwis know and respect.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

On 19/04/2021 at 12:05, Saint Toppy said:

Bring it on ! Mitchell & Trbojevic are good full backs but bang average centres. Nothing scary at all at seeing those two line up at 3 & 4 .

As for show pony Dufty - There's more chance of catching a cold than him catching a bomb under pressure, to also go with his turnstile defence 

So you don’t rate Latrell Mitchel or Tom Trbojevic. What are your thoughts on Mark Percival? 

[Wigan Riversider]

37 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

So you don’t rate Latrell Mitchel or Tom Trbojevic. What are your thoughts on Mark Percival? 

Percival: poor defence.

[Saint Toppy]

50 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

So you don’t rate Latrell Mitchel or Tom Trbojevic. What are your thoughts on Mark Percival? 

The Mitchell of about 3 years ago maybe, but he got lazy & arrogant and his form really dipped. It also coincided with him insisting he didn't want to play centre anymore and only wanted to play FB.

Trbojevic - I can't ever remember seeing him play centre.

You only have to look at NSW last year to see what playing people at centre who aren't centres does. Gutherson & Wighton were awful, despite having brilliant seasons playing in their natural positions. 

[DavidM]

5 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Trbojevic - I can't ever remember seeing him play centre.

He scored a hattrick starting from centre in origin 

[Saint Toppy]

Anway - bout time this thread came back on topic of England's best full back option. As usual its been hijacked by the NRL lovers to turn it into yet another thread about how wonderful their players are !

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, DavidM said:

He scored a hattrick starting from centre in origin 

Ah those pesky facts getting in the way again.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 hour ago, Manfred Mann said:

Sam Tomkins is the only full back whom the Australians and Kiwis know and respect.

They labelled him the biggest flop in NRL history, I’m not sure they respect him at all Manny Bot. 

[Dunbar]

Just so we don't go down the revisionist history of Sam Tomkins in the NRL, he was never a flop.  He had a very good first year and an injury hit 2nd year.  I think everyone would have expected an import to kick on in the second season.  And remember the injury didn't just effect his 2nd season in the NRL, it also effected his first year back at Wigan.

Here is what NRL.com said about Tomkins at the end of his first season with the Warriors as they rated him in the top 40 players in the NRL.

"Superstar England fullback Tomkins didn't seem like the most obvious big-money signing for the Warriors at the start of the season, considering the Kiwi side already had a New Zealand Test fullback who had just worn the No.1 jersey in the World Cup Final. But Tomkins' combination with star halfback Shaun Johnson soon became one of the most dangerous in the NRL, with the pre-season Billy Slater comparisons not looking too far off the mark. The fleet-footed custodian – who boasted 13 tries, 11 line breaks and a team-high 13 try assists in his debut NRL season – isn't quite in the very top echelon of NRL fullbacks yet, but at the age of 25 he's got plenty of time to get there."

https://www.nrl.com/news/2014/09/11/top-50-players-in-the-nrl-part-2/

[Damien]

I think the problem with Tomkins in the NRL was more that he was getting top money, and the Warriors had paid a huge fee, but he never quite delivered those top level performances of an Inglis, Tedesco or Tuivasa-Sheck.

[Dunbar]

16 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think the problem with Tomkins in the NRL was more that he was getting top money, and the Warriors had paid a huge fee, but he never quite delivered those top level performances of an Inglis, Tedesco or Tuivasa-Sheck.

It would be difficult to do that in just a single season before injury struck.  But he played every game in his first season and in 2014 he...

Scored exactly the same number of tries as Greg Inglis (13 in 24 games)... one more than Billy Slater.

Had more try assists than Jamie Lyon, Billy Slater and Shaun Johnson (to name a few).

Came 4th in tackle busts across the NRL after John Mansour, Jarryd Hayne and Greg Inglis.

I am not (and never have) said he was a superstar in the NRL.  The only thing I have ever done is challenge this ridiculous comment, that appears regularly, that he was a flop.

[Damien]

29 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

It would be difficult to do that in just a single season before injury struck.  But he played every game in his first season and in 2014 he...

Scored exactly the same number of tries as Greg Inglis (13 in 24 games)... one more than Billy Slater.

Had more try assists than Jamie Lyon, Billy Slater and Shaun Johnson (to name a few).

Came 4th in tackle busts across the NRL after John Mansour, Jarryd Hayne and Greg Inglis.

I am not (and never have) said he was a superstar in the NRL.  The only thing I have ever done is challenge this ridiculous comment, that appears regularly, that he was a flop.

I know Tomkins did fine in his first year. Again though I think it's in the context of a world record transfer fee and big wage where the flop talk comes in. The Warriors and their fans certainly expected more from their investment than a single decent season. Take away the transfer fee, wages and hype then I suspect things would be viewed differently.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I know Tomkins did fine in his first year. Again though I think it's in the context of a world record transfer fee and big wage where the flop talk comes in. The Warriors and their fans certainly expected more from their investment than a single decent season. Take away the transfer fee, wages and hype then I suspect things would be viewed differently.

The expectations were high, I agree with that.

But I am not about to be critical of him through his injury hit second season as it is clear from that season and the next one that the injury was serious and persistent.

Expectations or not, objectively he played well in 2014 for the Warriors... the highlights reel (of which there are many) and the stats back that up.

I don't know how I can be more objective. He had an injury hit second season. Should he have stuck it out at the Warriors and the NRL... maybe so, but personal circumstances have to be a factor.

But on the field, when he was fit and healthy, he was not a flop.