Another SL restructure is being planned

[Fevrover]

6 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Twelve team closed shop Super League with minimum standards introduced and long term plans for growth to 14, 16 etc. Diluting the competition further by adding two teams now is not the route to go down and in eighteen months, people will want change. Again. 

Minimum standards ? Now where have we heard that before lol and still some have never achieved them.

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

Minimum standards ? Now where have we heard that before lol and still some have never achieved them.

This every time. Until we have strong governance we can’t have licensing. When the incumbent clubs have so much control things won’t change

[Hela Wigmen]

11 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

Minimum standards ? Now where have we heard that before lol and still some have never achieved them.

Exactly. It’ll never happen because the apple cart would take a beating but an independent body implementing minimum standards rather than retaining the status quo is vital to the sport. 

[HawkMan]

Funnily there's a furore going on about a European closed shop Super League proposal for football. Gary Neville describes it as a disgrace despite his Man U in favour of it. Everyone is against it apparently,  because of the betrayal of loyal fans down the pyramid,  lack of relegation from proposed league,  creating a cartel of clubs which no one else could join. However some want exactly that for RL .Yes the money in RL is a fraction of football,  but the principle is the same. Or am I missing something?

[Hela Wigmen]

2 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Funnily there's a furore going on about a European closed shop Super League proposal for football. Gary Neville describes it as a disgrace despite his Man U in favour of it. Everyone is against it apparently,  because of the betrayal of loyal fans down the pyramid,  lack of relegation from proposed league,  creating a cartel of clubs which no one else could join. However some want exactly that for RL .Yes the money in RL is a fraction of football,  but the principle is the same. Or am I missing something?

Completely different situations. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Completely different situations. 

Exactly , just as the NFL,NRL, NBA,MLS and loads of other various sports structures around the planet 

What is the same is the UK sporting psyche 

It is interesting that people complain of clubs having unhealthy amounts of influence in RL , and yet this is exactly what these football clubs are trying to do 

[Oldbear]

We still can’t get around the problem that for a licensing system (which should still allow the possibility of teams moving up), we need a minimum of 12 strong clubs, who can be clearly differentiated from the rest. We don’t have that in SL now, and of the potential candidates constantly put forward you have to say they all have flaws so are not shoe ins by any stretch.

Toulouse - probably the strongest outside candidate, however we are still in a global pandemic so logistically a problem.

London - the club who alienates its fans, seems to run along with little planning and is about to embark on yet another ground move.

Newcastle and York - 2 clubs who are coming along nicely, let’s not destroy anything by fast tracking, which never seems to work well.

Bradford - desperately needs a period of stability

Fev- 3 teams with a WF postcode might not be so attractive to sponsors or investors, shame the one with potentially the best set up of the 3 is the one outside. However retaining P&R may solve that one.

Theres no one else, despite dreams of some on here.

[Eddie]

7 hours ago, The storm said:

Several clubs have gone stale and fail to add impact to the competition 

 

Salford

Wakefield

Leigh 

 

Should all stand to one side 

Leigh have only played a handful of games yet you’ve written them off already. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Leigh have only played a handful of games yet you’ve written them off already. 

This is the 3rd season Leigh have played in Super League. They’ve shown their worth to Super League before, it’s on a par with Wakefield and Hull kr. 

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This is the 3rd season Leigh have played in Super League. They’ve shown their worth to Super League before, it’s on a par with Wakefield and Hull kr. 

Hull KR? They can average 8k when playing terribly, they’re a big club and an asset to the competition.
I’d relegate Leeds, their crowds are tiny as a percentage of the city’s population, and they’re falling every season too. 

[DimmestStar]

7 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This is the 3rd season Leigh have played in Super League. They’ve shown their worth to Super League before, it’s on a par with Wakefield and Hull kr. 

Sorry but your disrespect for proud Rugby League clubs is wrong. I'll leave it to Leigh and Wakefield fans to speak up for their own historic clubs but here's my take on Hull Kingston Rovers.

Rovers have an ever improving stadium on the back of big investment and have pumped money into the youth system with the esteemed John Bastain leading the way. They will soon be purchasing the stadium and already own the leasehold.

They have average crowds of over 8,000 and a class leading community involvement programme. They support the East Hull community and have been praised by local politicians for their wonderful efforts in providing education and opportunities for the disadvantaged.

Craven Park is the centre of the East Hull community a deprived area which benefits from the huge efforts of Neil Hudgell, Paul Lakin and the Hull KR club.

Mose Masoe has been supported for 2 years on full pay with the club active in the fundraising for this Rovers family member. 

I am proud of this club and now we seem to be improving on the field too. What exactly is your problem?

[Hela Wigmen]

56 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This is the 3rd season Leigh have played in Super League. They’ve shown their worth to Super League before, it’s on a par with Wakefield and Hull kr. 

Leigh have shown promotion and relegation doesn’t work. Had Leigh got the nod a long time ago or around the expansion period, they’d be a different club to the one who has been promoted twice and relegated once in the past five seasons they’ve completed. 

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

We still can’t get around the problem that for a licensing system (which should still allow the possibility of teams moving up), we need a minimum of 12 strong clubs, who can be clearly differentiated from the rest. We don’t have that in SL now, and of the potential candidates constantly put forward you have to say they all have flaws so are not shoe ins by any stretch.

Toulouse - probably the strongest outside candidate, however we are still in a global pandemic so logistically a problem.

London - the club who alienates its fans, seems to run along with little planning and is about to embark on yet another ground move.

Newcastle and York - 2 clubs who are coming along nicely, let’s not destroy anything by fast tracking, which never seems to work well.

Bradford - desperately needs a period of stability

Fev- 3 teams with a WF postcode might not be so attractive to sponsors or investors, shame the one with potentially the best set up of the 3 is the one outside. However retaining P&R may solve that one.

Theres no one else, despite dreams of some on here.

How does relegation help anything? It still means at 1 or 2 (at least) clubs never gave a chance to develop. 

Sheff Utd had a good winning season. last year. They are relegated now.  They still get loads old money for the privilege.  RL has zero to offer, only bankruptcy.

P&R in our stuation is a sick joke.

[Rupert Prince]

8 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

This. Absolutely this.

Work out what the core function of the SL clubs needs to be in order to sustain themselves as commercial entities and set the minimum standards based on that. Then, consider the role they play in supporting rugby league their local area. 

Get rid of dual registration and use the mandatory academy system to generate the very best players. Cherry pick those who will make it almost immediately into Super League and offer up the remaining youngsters to the other local clubs, but for the whole season. Slap an expectation on at least 4 home grown players in a 21-man matchday squad, but keep the marquee rules to attract the best oversees stars.

We need to be brave as a sport, which is why it is critically important that it is not run by the clubs themselves. You either sign up and agree to reach the standards, or disappear. 

The sport should not be run by the clubs?

Who pays for the sport?

[Oldbear]

3 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

How does relegation help anything? It still means at 1 or 2 (at least) clubs never gave a chance to develop. 

Sheff Utd had a good winning season. last year. They are relegated now.  They still get loads old money for the privilege.  RL has zero to offer, only bankruptcy.

P&R in our stuation is a sick joke.

If we had more than 12 strong clubs, I.e. ones that are differentiated from the rest, then we could have licensing with the opportunity to add extra clubs as they are deemed ready, not relegate any. However we don’t even have 8, so what do you do if you still want a 12 club SL? 

[Manfred Mann]

13 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

This is why I dont want licensing. Hull KR pull in solid crowds from a great fan base and create two great games a season for TV with Hull.  

Licensing always looks to bin off clubs like Hull KR with awful talk of mergers.  Lock clubs in if it is good for international RL but door should never be closed to your KR's or Fev's

Hull KR need not be binned by licensing. Why would they be?

Featherstone definitely needs to be binned. I have been to their ground on game day. They have a paltry fan base, and little prospect of good commercial sponsorship in their tiny, nationally unknown social backwater of west Yorkshire.

After Toulouse is highly successful, as they will be, Super League needs to have a future place for Avignon, and perhaps even Paris, Toronto and Ottawa. Featherstone in Super League would be a depressing drag on growth of the game

[Hela Wigmen]

1 hour ago, Manfred Mann said:

Hull KR need not be binned by licensing. Why would they be?

Featherstone definitely needs to be binned. I have been to their ground on game day. They have a paltry fan base, and little prospect of good commercial sponsorship in their tiny, nationally unknown social backwater of west Yorkshire.

After Toulouse is highly successful, as they will be, Super League needs to have a future place for Avignon, and perhaps even Paris, Toronto and Ottawa. Featherstone in Super League would be a depressing drag on growth of the game

Only three clubs that don’t exist? Why not Mogadishu?

[Harrogate Fire Ants]

Go big or go home restructure. Leagues in same format, start Feb end in July with challenge cup final

No repeat fixtures, no playoffs. 4 Leagues of 10 teams one up one down in each.

Scrap the cap allow Toronto, New York and Ottawa in plus a couple of additions from Europe such as Red Star Belgrade to fill the league structures

Then from July to October I would start the international and/or representative origin calender potential of fixtures like Yorks vs Lancs or North vs South or North West, WF & Hull mergers.

Internationals such as England Knights vs Wales, England vs France, Canada vs USA etc. Internationals and origins to be played in UK Rugby league stadiums with host stadium getting % of gate money and all bar takings. 

Not saying I fully support the above but would shake up the game a bit with a variety of fixtures. You could please your flatcappers and your franchisees with a bit of both.

The problem with a merger is to create franchises although sounds sensible ruins the history of both the game and clubs.

If you take the "WF problem" there are 3 sides steeped in proud history in Wakey, Cas and Fev, someone looking at that from a franchise view point with their USA American Sports hat on would say a one club merger "WF" but you would lose 100 years of tradition, rivalry etc.The same goes with the 2 clubs of Hull

You could also argue a North West super merger all within 20 miles of each other of Wigan, St Helens, Leigh, Salford and Warrington under a North West/ Manchester banner could be achieved but same as above also applies. 

I personally don't think mergers are the way forward as although commercially less competition you lose the sole of the comp and the fans. Would people turn out for a combined best of the North West sides vs best of WF or Hull? I am not sure

However if we sold out and a capital equity franchiser got a proper hold on the comp they could say Wigan has a near on 30K stadium use that and bring these together and Hull FC has a similar capacity with Leeds/Huddersfield merger at Headingley due to the location and facilities. When you look at American owners they moved Oakland Raiders to Las Vegas 550 odd miles away in a different state and you only have to look at the recent uproar in soccer with the "ESL". Do we go big, stay stagnant or make little changes be interesting to see what if anything changes. 

 

[Saint Toppy]

18 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

The moment you pull up the drawbridge is the same moment that you inspire complacency and lose ingenuity. 

Works for the NRL !!

[Cerulean]

4 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

...Featherstone definitely needs to be binned. I have been to their ground on game day. They have a paltry fan base, and little prospect of good commercial sponsorship in their tiny, nationally unknown social backwater of west Yorkshire.

After Toulouse is highly successful, as they will be, Super League needs to have a future place for Avignon, and perhaps even Paris, Toronto and Ottawa. Featherstone in Super League would be a depressing drag on growth of the game

Featherstone would fit very nicely in a second division of semi-professional clubs. An impressive history of cup winning success and the production of players of world renown, a small but enthusiastic and committed fan base, the attraction of being a small town club surviving in a difficult and hostile commercial leisure environment, an area where the sport of Rugby League has been integral for generations, and probably has a greater proportion of players per population than any other town in the country, and an absolute certainty that it will continue to be a town with a rugby league team as long as the game is played.

This second division could exist very nicely in the trickle down glory of a Pan-European Super League. Can’t wait.

But I do wonder how long I will have to wait. Can you, perhaps, suggest a timetable - a road map - for the growth and building of this super Super League. Possibly an 8 team beginning (5 obvious top teams, two French teams, and a whipping boy), adding another team every five years or so, as each new targeted area develops a body of junior teams and supporting lower leagues in order to generate players, spectators and enthusiasm; or as multi-millionaires are attracted to the vast profits which will become available?

Or do you not have a timetable and roadmap for your vision, and are simply talking out of your armpit in an attempt to upset a few folk who are probably more resilient than you think, having been brought up in a difficult economic and social backwater?

[Man of Kent]

I’m not against licensing if it can initiate a virtuous circle of improved quality/competitiveness on the field and commercial revenue off it. 

Any restructure should include a minimum salary cap. If we don’t insist clubs spend, say, 90% of the cap, don’t bother restructuring at all. 

[Harrogate Fire Ants]

57 minutes ago, Harrogate Fire Ants said:

Go big or go home restructure. Leagues in same format, start Feb end in July with challenge cup final

No repeat fixtures, no playoffs. 4 Leagues of 10 teams one up one down in each.

Scrap the cap allow Toronto, New York and Ottawa in plus a couple of additions from Europe such as Red Star Belgrade to fill the league structures

Then from July to October I would start the international and/or representative origin calender potential of fixtures like Yorks vs Lancs or North vs South or North West, WF & Hull mergers.

Internationals such as England Knights vs Wales, England vs France, Canada vs USA etc. Internationals and origins to be played in UK Rugby league stadiums with host stadium getting % of gate money and all bar takings. 

Not saying I fully support the above but would shake up the game a bit with a variety of fixtures. You could please your flatcappers and your franchisees with a bit of both.

The problem with a merger is to create franchises although sounds sensible ruins the history of both the game and clubs.

If you take the "WF problem" there are 3 sides steeped in proud history in Wakey, Cas and Fev, someone looking at that from a franchise view point with their USA American Sports hat on would say a one club merger "WF" but you would lose 100 years of tradition, rivalry etc.The same goes with the 2 clubs of Hull

You could also argue a North West super merger all within 20 miles of each other of Wigan, St Helens, Leigh, Salford and Warrington under a North West/ Manchester banner could be achieved but same as above also applies. 

I personally don't think mergers are the way forward as although commercially less competition you lose the sole of the comp and the fans. Would people turn out for a combined best of the North West sides vs best of WF or Hull? I am not sure

However if we sold out and a capital equity franchiser got a proper hold on the comp they could say Wigan has a near on 30K stadium use that and bring these together and Hull FC has a similar capacity with Leeds/Huddersfield merger at Headingley due to the location and facilities. When you look at American owners they moved Oakland Raiders to Las Vegas 550 odd miles away in a different state and you only have to look at the recent uproar in soccer with the "ESL". Do we go big, stay stagnant or make little changes be interesting to see what if anything changes. 

 

 

Least I got a couple of laughs

[Mumby Magic]

If we change shows how much of a joke our sport is and why can't be taken seriously. How can clubs plan when the boundaries might change anytime.

[steve oates]

18 hours ago, Oldbear said:

We still can’t get around the problem that for a licensing system (which should still allow the possibility of teams moving up), we need a minimum of 12 strong clubs, who can be clearly differentiated from the rest. We don’t have that in SL now, and of the potential candidates constantly put forward you have to say they all have flaws so are not shoe ins by any stretch.

 

With respect I don't think  12 clubs is the minimum is it?

IIRC ten clubs has certainly been suggested in the past.

I don't know how that would be set up? Could every SL club play each other 3 times? I don't like it but I can see arguments for the teams maybe been more even in such a set up, maybe better crowd income?

But above all the SKY money going 10 ways??

 

 

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, steve oates said:

With respect I don't think  12 clubs is the minimum is it?

IIRC ten clubs has certainly been suggested in the past.

I don't know how that would be set up? Could every SL club play each other 3 times? I don't like it but I can see arguments for the teams maybe been more even in such a set up, maybe better crowd income?

But above all the SKY money going 10 ways??

 

 

I've already said previously that I want more variety, 10 clubs is going even more the other way and frankly the thought of it bores the life out of me.