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Another SL restructure is being planned


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1 minute ago, LeytherRob said:

I think the visceral reactions of the last 48 hours say everything about what appetite the UK has for an invite only, closed shop competition. Anyone claiming that licensing is a golden ticket idea that will fix the games issues is kidding themselves.

All attempts to use P&R to fix the games ills have failed, don't forget the game has had more years without P&R than with it.

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This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Sorry but your disrespect for proud Rugby League clubs is wrong. I'll leave it to Leigh and Wakefield fans to speak up for their own historic clubs but here's my take on Hull Kingston Rovers. Rov

14 teams. 2 teams to be relegated at seasons end. top 5 playoffs. no more loop fixtures. Thats what I’d like to see 👍

You know what is likely then? 10 teams, more loop fixtures.

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

So keeping a sport with promotion and relegation with two full time professional sides outside the top flight in the hope people who don’t care about the sport, start caring about the sport is the answer? It’s not. 

The restructure simply has to stop this fallacy of “fairness” when the current set-up, the alleged preferred one, couldn’t be any less fair or helpful to the majority. 

Didn't realise there were only 2 options available...

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1 minute ago, Padge said:

All attempts to use P&R to fix the games ills have failed, don't forget the game has had more years without P&R than with it.

With one division you don't really need it , do you ?

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2 minutes ago, Padge said:

All attempts to use P&R to fix the games ills have failed, don't forget the game has had more years without P&R than with it.

Nobody is saying P and R will fix the game , nobody is saying any particular structure will ' fix it ' except those suggesting a closed shop , having P and R means that we are looking for a whole game solution rather than just a SL solution , surely that's what we all want 

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42 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Are you the Rugby League spokesman for the Glazier family?

I don’t know of the relevance of the Glazier family. I suspect that the Glazer family might be of greater significance.

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Nobody is saying P and R will fix the game , nobody is saying any particular structure will ' fix it ' except those suggesting a closed shop , having P and R means that we are looking for a whole game solution rather than just a SL solution , surely that's what we all want 

How do you implement promotion and relegation on a sport with 14/36 fully professional sides? 

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1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Ohh some car crash Middle 8’s. Let’s do the timewarp again...

I wasn't suggesting middle 8's, only that there are many more options available to the sport than just a very specific scenario in P&R with a couple of FT teams in the championship and a completely closed shop. 

 

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Just now, LeytherRob said:

I wasn't suggesting middle 8's, only that there are many more options available to the sport than just a very specific scenario in P&R with a couple of FT teams in the championship and a completely closed shop. 

 

Many more? Go on then...

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2 hours ago, wasginger said:

Manfred Mann stick to trying to sing, because your ignorance regarding Fev is embarrassing. 

I am not trying to sing. I am playing piano, organ and keyboard. Your ignorance regarding my considerable musical talents is embarrassing.

Stick to defending the obscure, West Yorkshire backwater town of Featherstone. There are so few of you dinosaurs that the Post Office Road manager, security guard, and cleaner are grateful for everyone of you.

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1 minute ago, LeytherRob said:

You really need me to prove there are more than 3 possible scenarios than the 3 extremely specific ones you've listed? Seriously?

 

You’ve backtracked quicker than the football Super League there. 

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19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Nobody is saying P and R will fix the game , nobody is saying any particular structure will ' fix it ' except those suggesting a closed shop , having P and R means that we are looking for a whole game solution rather than just a SL solution , surely that's what we all want 

I haven't seen anyone calling for a closed shop.

SL brings in the big money, the games strength, like it or not, is in SL.

If you have a premium product then only a foolish business would try to not maximise what you can get from it.

 

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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30 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Might have been without P&R, but wasn't a closed shop.

Well it ws because clubs could decide not to play somebody as they weren't worth the money.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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3 minutes ago, Padge said:

I haven't seen anyone calling for a closed shop.

SL brings in the big money, the games strength, like it or not, is in SL.

If you have a premium product then only a foolish business would try to not maximise what you can get from it.

 

Only a fool wouldn't look to maximise all potential income streams , is there an offer on the table for a licenced/franchised SL which is substantially bigger than one with P and R ?

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Only a fool wouldn't look to maximise all potential income streams , is there an offer on the table for a licenced/franchised SL which is substantially bigger than one with P and R ?

Is that rhetorical or are you asking me?

 

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Only a fool wouldn't look to maximise all potential income streams , is there an offer on the table for a licenced/franchised SL which is substantially bigger than one with P and R ?

Is that rhetorical or are you asking me?

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Both , is there or has there ever been an offer to pay more money to televise a ' locked in ' SL ?

How would I know?

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

You’ve backtracked quicker than the football Super League there. 

Not really, it was a pretty stupid question. 

To recap, the 3 options you listed were:

  • "promotion and relegation with two full time professional sides outside the top flight"
  • Licensing
  • "car crash Middle 8’s"

You can have P&R without full time teams outside the top flight, and before anyone jumps in to complain about greedy championship clubs taking a slice of the hard earned SL pie - you don't need massive amounts of funding below SL either. You need 2 things to keep the game outside SL working, the first is a pathway and the second is time.

The pathway is worth more financially to clubs in the championship than the funding because it keeps people interested, particularly investors. Plenty on this thread have heaped praise on York and Newcastle, but no one wants to acknowledge the P&R system is what has given them a pathway to aim at. There is no chance anyone would even be talking about them for SL if the lower tiers were still going through the motions under licensing.

As for time, throughout all my years watching RL, the promoted team has always been starting on the back foot because they've been recruiting a team from the scraps of everyone else. We've seen plenty of attempts to fix this through 3 year licenses, middle 8's to build as close to a SL as you can get in the championship. Why not just stagger the seasons? Have the game below SL wrapping up early and give the promoted team a jumpstart on recruitment for once. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Padge said:

Well it ws because clubs could decide not to play somebody as they weren't worth the money.

It wasn't, because no club was locked out from competing for any of the national competitions

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12 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Not really, it was a pretty stupid question. 

To recap, the 3 options you listed were:

  • "promotion and relegation with two full time professional sides outside the top flight"
  • Licensing
  • "car crash Middle 8’s"

You can have P&R without full time teams outside the top flight, and before anyone jumps in to complain about greedy championship clubs taking a slice of the hard earned SL pie - you don't need massive amounts of funding below SL either. You need 2 things to keep the game outside SL working, the first is a pathway and the second is time.

The pathway is worth more financially to clubs in the championship than the funding because it keeps people interested, particularly investors. Plenty on this thread have heaped praise on York and Newcastle, but no one wants to acknowledge the P&R system is what has given them a pathway to aim at. There is no chance anyone would even be talking about them for SL if the lower tiers were still going through the motions under licensing.

As for time, throughout all my years watching RL, the promoted team has always been starting on the back foot because they've been recruiting a team from the scraps of everyone else. We've seen plenty of attempts to fix this through 3 year licenses, middle 8's to build as close to a SL as you can get in the championship. Why not just stagger the seasons? Have the game below SL wrapping up early and give the promoted team a jumpstart on recruitment for once. 

 

 

You have. You’ve gone from “many more” to offering one up. It was a climbdown. 

So, let me get this straight. You’re for fairness and competition but don’t actually want fairness or an even competition because you want the Championship winners to be given a huge head start in terms of recruitment for the following year? You see, this is part of a wider problem. There’s no particular easy fix, you can’t satisfy the Super League clubs and the Championship clubs and offer an even and fair compromise. This is essentially the problem we have across the board, there is no move that allows the big clubs to build upon their foundations, the clubs beneath them to invest further in their infrastructure and the clubs beneath them to invest in their infrastructure at all. You’ve essentially backed up my point that P&R is flawed with that. 

With 14/36 fully professional clubs and, what, three others who have genuine ambitions of Super League but range from kind of close to still a huge way off, we’re pandering to no more than a handful of middling to small clubs. I’m not sure how any credible competition can run a secondary competition with such a drastic mix of clubs in it. 

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3 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

It wasn't, because no club was locked out from competing for any of the national competitions

But that was every season, P&R means that you cannot compete for all the national competitions every season, with P&R the majority are locked out of competing for the SL trophy.

There is a contradiction in your argument.

 

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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