Time to retire the Harry Sunderland Trophy, Rob Burrow medal

[Scubby]

Harry Sunderland trophy was an existing man of the match trophy which washed around the old premiership finals and others for years and years. Harry Sunderland was a great name no doubt but it isn't associated with the big SL GF night at Old Trafford which has happened since 1998.

It is time to retire that MoM award IMO and introduce the Rob Burrow Medal for future man of the match performances. Rob has an iconic GF final moment, has won umpteen GFs at Old Trafford and is an inspiration to everyone - it is a great way to recognise a brilliant man. Also, make the change now while he and his family can enjoy the recognition. 

Sometimes we just have to make positive changes! 

[Damien]

I remember quite a big thread on renaming the Harry Sunderland trophy before. I think it may have been locked.

[Tommygilf]

Good idea

[DC77]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

Harry Sunderland trophy was an existing man of the match trophy which washed around the old premiership finals and others for years and years. Harry Sunderland was a great name no doubt but it isn't associated with the big SL GF night at Old Trafford which has happened since 1998.

It is time to retire that MoM award IMO and introduce the Rob Burrow Medal for future man of the match performances. Rob has an iconic GF final moment, has won umpteen GFs at Old Trafford and is an inspiration to everyone - it is a great way to recognise a brilliant man. Also, make the change now while he and his family can enjoy the recognition. 

Sometimes we just have to make positive changes! 

One of the greatest scores in sport. 

100% agree with the proposal and it’s something that should be done. I dare say Harry Sunderland is not someone many RL devotees would know (never mind non devotees), in contrast to Burrow. Take away the horrible disease (for which he’s shown tremendous dignity) and ask does he merit it purely in a sporting context. For a man of his size to do what he did in such a physically demanding sport the answer is yes.

[Futtocks]

What happens when the next well-loved player or ex-player gets a horrific disease? Ditch Rob Burrow?

There's something to be said for naming these things after people who have been gone a long time, like Harry Sunderland or Lance Todd.

[Scubby]

6 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

What happens when the next well-loved player or ex-player gets a horrific disease? Ditch Rob Burrow?

There's something to be said for naming these things after people who have been gone a long time, like Harry Sunderland or Lance Todd.

Regardless of his condition, he won 8 Grand Finals at Old Trafford in 14 years and got 2 MoM awards. He also scored one of the most iconic tries at Old Trafford. Can that be beaten?

[Futtocks]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

Regardless of his condition, he won 8 Grand Finals at Old Trafford in 14 years and got 2 MoM awards. He also scored one of the most iconic tries at Old Trafford. Can that be beaten?

That's not my argument. I think Rob was a brilliant player and a truly likeable guy, even if (and also because) he was such a thorn in my club's side over the years.

But do we chop and change the trophy's name every time tragedies happen to players we love? If we're talking players with loads of titles, what if (God forbid) Shaun Edwards came down with some serious illness?

[Just Browny]

9 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

That's not my argument. I think Rob was a brilliant player and a truly likeable guy, even if (and also because) he was such a thorn in my club's side over the years.

But do we chop and change the trophy's name every time tragedies happen to players we love? If we're talking players with loads of titles, what if (God forbid) Shaun Edwards came down with some serious illness?

That's pretty much how historical commemoration works. People are commemorated when their legacy is relevant, and other things take over as memories fade. Very few of us could tell you much about Harry Sunderland; Burrow is a worthy recipient and has been a star of the event the award is used for.

[Futtocks]

5 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

That's pretty much how historical commemoration works. People are commemorated when their legacy is relevant, and other things take over as memories fade. Very few of us could tell you much about Harry Sunderland; Burrow is a worthy recipient and has been a star of the event the award is used for.

I have no problem with Rob having a trophy named after him; in fact, I'd love it. What concerns me is how soon it would be considered okay to take his name off it because someone more recent with a glittering career has suffered a similar or worse affliction. The speed of turnover, if you will. It seems to lack dignity or compassion.

Consider the number of times people have suggested that Rob (or Mose Masoe) gets the Man of Steel award. Or someone in another sport gets the BBC SPotY, despite that not being a criterion for the trophy.

[Just Browny]

4 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

I have no problem with Rob having a trophy named after him; in fact, I'd love it. What concerns me is how soon it would be considered okay to take his name off it because someone more recent with a glittering career has suffered a similar or worse affliction. The speed of turnover, if you will. It seems to lack dignity or compassion.

Consider the number of times people have suggested that Rob (or Mose Masoe) gets the Man of Steel award. Or someone in another sport gets the BBC SPotY, despite that not being a criterion for the trophy.

I know what you mean, but I think it is unlikely. And I am sure Rob would be prouder to have the Rob Burrow Trophy awarded for five years than never at all.

[Scubby]

6 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

I have no problem with Rob having a trophy named after him; in fact, I'd love it. What concerns me is how soon it would be considered okay to take his name off it because someone more recent with a glittering career has suffered a similar or worse affliction. The speed of turnover, if you will. It seems to lack dignity or compassion.

Consider the number of times people have suggested that Rob (or Mose Masoe) gets the Man of Steel award. Or someone in another sport gets the BBC SPotY, despite that not being a criterion for the trophy.

It would only be worthy to take him off if SL no longer existed and had a GF night like it has since 1998. Burrow's success is unique to the GF at Old Trafford. The MoM trophy that currently exists was given to people winning MoM in old Top 8 end of season premiership play-offs at Headingley for example. Some clubs didn't even take that comp seriously.

It was a bit lazy moving it across to the SL GF and there is a chance to create an iconic legacy and make the MoM medal mean something. 

[Futtocks]

Just now, Scubby said:

It would only be worthy to take him off if SL no longer existed and had a GF night like it has since 1998. Burrow's success is unique to the GF at Old Trafford. The MoM trophy that currently exists was given to people winning MoM in old Top 8 end of season play-offs at Headingley for example. It was lazy moving it across and there is a chance to create an iconic legacy and make the MoM medal mean something. 

That's a very good argument, and I agree. I still worry about a precedent being set though.

[Rowan]

For those who don't know much about the Harry Sunderland Trophy or its origins -( Rob Burrow won it in 2007 and 2011 incidentally)  I hope the following helps.

We (the Rugby League Writers & Broadcasters Association) introduced the award for the man of the match in the Championship Final in 1965 (a bit before my time) in memory of Australian Harry Sunderland who was a broadcaster and journalist as well as an Australian Tour manager who was one of the driving forces behind the introduction of the Lance Todd Trophy just after the War)  The first winner was Halifax's Terry Fogerty.

When the Championship became the Premiership in 1974 the award was "transferred" to the new end-of-season play-off with Warrington's Barry Philbin the first winner in 1974.   The first two year of Super League had no Grand Final as such so the first winner of the award under the Super League banner was Jason Robinson in 1998.

Members of the RLWBA vote for the MOM award (as with the Lance Todd Trophy although that is an award inspired and administered  by  Salford RLFC ).  It has been suggested to us that the Harry Sunderland Trophy be shelved and replaced by the Rob Burrow Award and although there have been no serious objections to such a move it is generally felt that it is part of the game's history (or at least the last 56 years of it) and we would rather try to find another way for an award in which to honour Rob Burrow.

As a side issue I can report that down the years the RLWBA have been involved with finding  trophies for the BARLA National Cup Final (Wilkinson Sword now the Tom Keaveney Award); Charity Shield Jack Bentley Trophy (1985-1995), Arthur Brooks Merit Award for Services to the game, Tom Bergin Trophy (MoM in various finals below Super League) and currently the Raymond Fletcher Memorial Trophy for the RLWBA's own Player of the Year (from 1996 - current holder Bevan French)

Anyway, the only reason I know all this is that I've been and still am a committee member (currently Secretary) of the RLWBA) for longer than I care to remember.

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Rowan said:

For those who don't know much about the Harry Sunderland Trophy or its origins -( Rob Burrow won it in 2007 and 2011 incidentally)  I hope the following helps.

We (the Rugby League Writers & Broadcasters Association) introduced the award for the man of the match in the Championship Final in 1965 (a bit before my time) in memory of Australian Harry Sunderland who was a broadcaster and journalist as well as an Australian Tour manager who was one of the driving forces behind the introduction of the Lance Todd Trophy just after the War)  The first winner was Halifax's Terry Fogerty.

When the Championship became the Premiership in 1974 the award was "transferred" to the new end-of-season play-off with Warrington's Barry Philbin the first winner in 1974.   The first two year of Super League had no Grand Final as such so the first winner of the award under the Super League banner was Jason Robinson in 1998.

Members of the RLWBA vote for the MOM award (as with the Lance Todd Trophy although that is an award inspired and administered  by  Salford RLFC ).  It has been suggested to us that the Harry Sunderland Trophy be shelved and replaced by the Rob Burrow Award and although there have been no serious objections to such a move it is generally felt that it is part of the game's history (or at least the last 56 years of it) and we would rather try to find another way for an award in which to honour Rob Burrow.

As a side issue I can report that down the years the RLWBA have been involved with finding  trophies for the BARLA National Cup Final (Wilkinson Sword now the Tom Keaveney Award); Charity Shield Jack Bentley Trophy (1985-1995), Arthur Brooks Merit Award for Services to the game, Tom Bergin Trophy (MoM in various finals below Super League) and currently the Raymond Fletcher Memorial Trophy for the RLWBA's own Player of the Year (from 1996 - current holder Bevan French)

Anyway, the only reason I know all this is that I've been and still am a committee member (currently Secretary) of the RLWBA) for longer than I care to remember.

Thanks Rowan for that. Really interesting read. You can understand that given it spent 20-odd years as a MoM for the old premiership play-offs (which was a bit of an end of season jamboree rather than a major trophy) it resonates little with modern audiences. The Clive Churchill medal for the NRL grand final and the Wally Lewis Medal (man of state of origin series), closely relate to the achievement of actually playing in the pinnacle of the sport.

Rob won 8 GFs in 14 years at Old Trafford, scored an iconic try in a final and 2 MoM awards. Modernising this accolade for best player in a SL GF is long overdue IMO.

[Rowan]

I don't disagree Scubby but the award was introduced for the Championship Final (i.e. The Grand Final of its day) and it was the RFL who changed things into the Premiership nine years later. Just for the record.

[hindle xiii]

Does the World Cup Final have an individual award named after a specific someone?

Go there. Also a bit more publicity for the tournament.

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, hindle xiii said:

Does the World Cup have an individual award named after a specific someone?

Go there. Also a bit more publicity for the tournament.

If WC did have an individual award named after a legend it would have to be an Australian immortal. Rob's legacy is with the GF at OT. 

[hindle xiii]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

If WC did have an individual award named after a legend it would have to be an Australian immortal. Rob's legacy is with the GF at OT. 

I'm not denying any of that, but if it doesn't have a name then nab it. You snooze, you lose.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, hindle xiii said:

I'm not denying any of that, but if it doesn't have a name then nab it. You snooze, you lose.

Stay on your feet FFS Kallum Watkins medal?

[hindle xiii]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

Stay on your feet FFS Kallum Watkins medal?

Australian immortal.

English inevitable.

[Mr Plow]

1 hour ago, Futtocks said:

What happens when the next well-loved player or ex-player gets a horrific disease? Ditch Rob Burrow?

There's something to be said for naming these things after people who have been gone a long time, like Harry Sunderland or Lance Todd.

I see what you mean and I think these things can be done without much thought.m and an almost knee jerk reaction. The Lazenby cup between Leeds and Hunslet was renamed the Harry Jepson cup after Jepsons death in 2016. 
 

You can’t honour everyone with a trophy or stand unfortunately although I think renaming the Harry Sunderland Award would be a fitting tribute to Burrow. Burrows records and achievements speak for themselves and for the MOTM of the grand final to be given the Rob Burrow Trophy I think is quite fitting. 
 

Sunderland left his mark in the game I think it more appropriate to name awards after players and coaches rather than administrators

[RigbyLuger]

3 hours ago, Futtocks said:

What happens when the next well-loved player or ex-player gets a horrific disease? Ditch Rob Burrow?

There's something to be said for naming these things after people who have been gone a long time, like Harry Sunderland or Lance Todd.

They named the wrong thing after Steve Prescott. Whatever the name of the award says, it's for the best player in the competition, and he never was that.

 

At least those proposing Burrow for the have his record to back it up.

[Chris22]

I am largely not in favour of naming or renaming trophies after players when they suffer horrible illnesses. That is for the reason stated in this thread that many more players will suffer in the future, equally worthy of recognition.

But, given Rob Burrow's achievements in Grand Finals, including probably the best try in Grand Final history so far, I think this is worth considering.