DoubleD Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 The NRL has long focused greater attention on the metres gained by players. I’m not sure why this is the case, but I’ve noticed that Sky and BBC have started quoting this occasionally. However the metres gained by SL players seem markedly less than their NRL counterparts. Now this can’t be because the defences are better in SL! So why the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyvyan Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Are the total number of carries broadly the same or are there more by NRL players? If there are more carries by the NRL players it could mean there's is a quicker game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 On another thread I posted a link to an academic paper full of analysis on game day performance. Here is an interesting snippet from that paper on metres gained "teams won 97.5% of the time when outperforming opponents by at least 260 metres" "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyvyan Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Dunbar said: On another thread I posted a link to an academic paper full of analysis on game day performance. Here is an interesting snippet from that paper on metres gained "teams won 97.5% of the time when outperforming opponents by at least 260 metres" Well the side making more metres is likely to have better field position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakey Til I Die Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 31 minutes ago, DoubleD said: The NRL has long focused greater attention on the metres gained by players. I’m not sure why this is the case, but I’ve noticed that Sky and BBC have started quoting this occasionally. However the metres gained by SL players seem markedly less than their NRL counterparts. Now this can’t be because the defences are better in SL! So why the difference? Isn’t it to do with the way the meters are recorded? Over here i was under the impression that it was meters gained from the advantage line, so level with the play the ball or from where the opposition has kicked from. Meanwhile in the NRL it is ‘all run meters’, so as soon as a player takes possession of the ball irrespective of where that is. Could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Wakey Til I Die said: Isn’t it to do with the way the meters are recorded? Over here i was under the impression that it was meters gained from the advantage line, so level with the play the ball or from where the opposition has kicked from. Meanwhile in the NRL it is ‘all run meters’, so as soon as a player takes possession of the ball irrespective of where that is. Could be wrong though. Thanks for the explanation, it must be due to how they’re calculated........it would help if there was some consistency across the competitions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 34 minutes ago, Dunbar said: On another thread I posted a link to an academic paper full of analysis on game day performance. Here is an interesting snippet from that paper on metres gained "teams won 97.5% of the time when outperforming opponents by at least 260 metres" What thread I’d like to have a look at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Just now, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: What thread I’d like to have a look at this The scoring on tackles thread. But here it is so you don't have to find it... health warning, it is heavy going. 143477019.pdf (core.ac.uk) "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 1 hour ago, DoubleD said: it would help if there was some consistency across the competitions! Now stop posting ridiculous things that’ll never happen !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, Saint 1 said: I think NRL run metres include running with the ball before passing, while Super League stats don't. That might be wrong but I've done some stats for a second tier team and compared my calculations of run metres to the official ones to find big differences too! My own calculations only did carry metres and massively undershot it relative to the official ones. I would be surprised if the NRL stats included carrying the ball before passing. You often see halves finishing the game with relatively low running stats while they will have handled and carried the ball a lot. For example, Mitchell Moses and Luke Brooks are stated as averaging 44 metres with the ball this year and they will have carried more than that. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Saint 1 said: Fair enough, maybe that isn't the case then! I would love more info on how each metric is coded tbh but I don't think it's something they will release any time soon. Agreed. I also find that there can be considerable discrepancies between the player stays on NRL.com and Fox Sports and so it isn't even measured consistently over there. For example, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck is listed as having 1,356 running metres on NRL.com and 1,214 on Fox. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 14 hours ago, Dunbar said: On another thread I posted a link to an academic paper full of analysis on game day performance. Here is an interesting snippet from that paper on metres gained "teams won 97.5% of the time when outperforming opponents by at least 260 metres" Really ? Who'd've thought that ? Everybody. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmduck Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 13 hours ago, Dunbar said: I would be surprised if the NRL stats included carrying the ball before passing. You often see halves finishing the game with relatively low running stats while they will have handled and carried the ball a lot. For example, Mitchell Moses and Luke Brooks are stated as averaging 44 metres with the ball this year and they will have carried more than that. They would only count metres forward. Halves might run 20m before passing but only go 1m forward. Then there's another question: if I take the ball but get pushed back 10m, do they deduct the 10m from my total? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 14 hours ago, DoubleD said: Thanks for the explanation, it must be due to how they’re calculated........it would help if there was some consistency across the competitions! If you look at the live NRL games statistics, they are updated as the game progresses so many will be taken from the monitors that players are wearing. Superleague stats aren’t that quick so it could be down to set up and other resources. An explanation for differences for metres could be that there is a stat for the actual distance a player runs and another carrying the ball. This is why we often get comments on ‘player x ran 14kms’. The monitoring equipment gives data on lots of different items, just depends what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Farmduck said: They would only count metres forward. Halves might run 20m before passing but only go 1m forward. Then there's another question: if I take the ball but get pushed back 10m, do they deduct the 10m from my total? I agree that it is metres forward but with the number of times a half back touches the ball you would expect them to make some forward movement on most plays and that would add up. It is clearly not easily defined how the metres gained works. Take one example from the weekend, Jarome Luai for the Panthers. According to the NRL.com game stats he: Ran the ball 8 times (for 71 metres) Played the ball twice Offloaded the ball 3 times Received the ball 62 times So, there are clearly some times that he is being counted as running the ball when he didn't get tackled but there are 54 times he received the ball that were not counted as runs. I find it hard to believe that he was either stationary or didn't make any forward progress with the ball on any of the 54 times. And they are not just counting the times he ran and was tackled (as he played the ball twice) or even offloaded (3 times) as those two add up to 5 and he officially ran the ball 8 times so there most be instances where the run ended in a pass. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m brooksy Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 NRL stats for metres is insane how they calculate it. Its essentially done from where you receive the ball and where the ball is then played. So in one play several players could have carries that add up to way more than they have actually advanced the ball. At Opta we always started from the ptb and to receive metres you had to go past this mark. So if the ball is played on half way the maximum metres you could make on that next phase was 50m. However Opta has been bought out and a different company now does the collection for super league so they have altered how the data is collected and any comparisons to past seasons are now pointless. Thats why the fantasy game has been terrible this year with their scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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