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PARTICIPANT MEMBERSHIP FOR COMMUNITY GAME


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Just now, del capo said:

Fair point.

Most clubs have had a windfall on their rateable values  averaging 20 - 25k ( even though they don't pay rates in most areas because of their status )  from their Councils via the Government hand out. 

Most of that 1.25million  likely to have been directed to the Womans'  SL game.? That and the wider diversity game offers  ticks so many boxes. But I honestly don't know.

 Two Community reps have a meeting with Ralph on wednesday. I'm confident they will bring it up ......

And a bit of a steal anyway to still describe  ourselves as a ' Winter ' Sport ?

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22 minutes ago, del capo said:

Fair point.

Most clubs have had a windfall on their rateable values  averaging 20 - 25k ( even though they don't pay rates in most areas because of their status )  from their Councils via the Government hand out. 

Most of that 1.25million  likely to have been directed to the Womans'  SL game.? That and the wider diversity game offers  ticks so many boxes. But I honestly don't know.

 Two Community reps have a meeting with Ralph on wednesday. I'm confident they will bring it up ......

Is women’s SL now classed as community or is it professional?

It all seems very weighted towards the professional game, and let’s be quite frank, some of the professional clubs are professional in name only.

Without the annual handouts from central funding they wouldn’t survive a season!

And league 1 !! - how professional clubs are expected to operate on just 9 home games is a disgrace.

the whole professional game needs an overhaul, I was always against a franchised top division but I’ve changed my opinion and would rather see a competition fixed for a minimum 5 years to allow teams to build without fear of relegation 

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6 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Is women’s SL now classed as community or is it professional?

It all seems very weighted towards the professional game, and let’s be quite frank, some of the professional clubs are professional in name only.

Without the annual handouts from central funding they wouldn’t survive a season!

And league 1 !! - how professional clubs are expected to operate on just 9 home games is a disgrace.

the whole professional game needs an overhaul, I was always against a franchised top division but I’ve changed my opinion and would rather see a competition fixed for a minimum 5 years to allow teams to build without fear of relegation 

And the teams without fears would just rape and pillage the championship and championship one, I'd sooner see it two divisions with promotion and relegation, that way the bottom feeders  in the SL & Promotion candidates will big a cluster of around a dozen clubs, yes maybe yo yo clubs but one day if a yo yo club can just avoid going down for 5 YEARS they may just work themselves up the order.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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I sent an email in asking a number of questions around why the choice was for individuals to pay a membership fee, which seems to be a hallmark of individual sports (swimming, gymnastics, triathlon etc) whereas team sports (football being the prime example) tend to favour a team-by-team affiliation fee.

I also asked some questions around paying twice for the same thing (I.e. one payment to club and one to RFL and the friction this would cause).

I was pleasantly surprised to receive a response, letting me know that they’d read my email and had passed it on, also asking if I would be happy (as someone working within a club) to have a chat with someone (at the RFL) about this. I responded that I would definitely be happy to and that I thought it was great if the RFL truly wanted to engage.

Unfortunately, I never heard anything back after that.

I still don’t see how they’ve come to the decision that an individual participant fee is the most sensible decision. I’m not against a proper affiliation fee structure to ensure the game is well funded, I just can’t see how they can believe this is a good idea.

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1 hour ago, del capo said:

Women's Super League is classed as Community for the moment and any funding comes out of that pot

That is totally wrong, the super league clubs who keep promoting the women's super league game should be financing them, the super league clubs have raided the community clubs to get these women on board.  

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On 19/06/2021 at 14:07, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

So whose been involved with the development plan?

which areas of the game have been consulted?

has there been game wide consultation including players, officials and leagues from parts of the country or was it a couple of players and a board member sitting round a dining table (active membership consultation)? 
 

and you keep saying the community board represents the amateurs in one breath, and the next you say their voices aren’t heard, so which is it?

I hope the same top rfl consultants haven't been involved with the new development plan, especially after the false information they gave the community board saying that the participation fees would bring rugby league in line with other top NGBs, and that was a total lie.

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14 hours ago, del capo said:

Women's Super League is classed as Community for the moment and any funding comes out of that pot

Well i obviously haven’t seen sight of the Winter Sports bid, so can’t comment too much on it as it may be that the bid was just for women’s rugby but it does seem to me that it’s always the adult men’s community game that goes underfunded. £1.25 million is a lot of money for a handful of clubs, I hope it is just being used for running costs.

Again this comes down to engagement, or rather the lack of it between the governing body and member clubs.

if you don’t have continuous engagement you don’t fully understand the needs of those clubs which makes formulating a meaningful strategic development plan for the next 5 years very difficult.

to me and others on here, giving away £1.25 million while asking community clubs to effectively pay the same amount annually back into the RFLs coffers just doesn’t sit right

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5 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Well i obviously haven’t seen sight of the Winter Sports bid, so can’t comment too much on it as it may be that the bid was just for women’s rugby but it does seem to me that it’s always the adult men’s community game that goes underfunded. £1.25 million is a lot of money for a handful of clubs, I hope it is just being used for running costs.

Again this comes down to engagement, or rather the lack of it between the governing body and member clubs.

if you don’t have continuous engagement you don’t fully understand the needs of those clubs which makes formulating a meaningful strategic development plan for the next 5 years very difficult.

to me and others on here, giving away £1.25 million while asking community clubs to effectively pay the same amount annually back into the RFLs coffers just doesn’t sit right

 That £1.25 million . I don't know how we got it or where it is going. Good to have it though.

For me the most fundamental issue has always been one of communication. I have banged that drum for years. ' One for all and all for one ' has been my mission statement for ages . We are too small  as a game not to be together.

Once the penny drops ( it will eventually ) this game will end up in so much a better place....

We have at the last count 297 amateur  clubs ( all balancing their books and in credit  )   servicing this games'  future.

.Look after them RFL at your peril

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23 hours ago, del capo said:

Women's Super League is classed as Community for the moment and any funding comes out of that pot

If as you say funding comes out of the "pot" then the Women & Girls should be included in the so called Player Membership (TAX)

Rumours have it, that Women/Girls like many others i.e. Tag, Wheelchair, Masters are all exempt- WHY

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59 minutes ago, Deep Heat said:

If as you say funding comes out of the "pot" then the Women & Girls should be included in the so called Player Membership (TAX)

Rumours have it, that Women/Girls like many others i.e. Tag, Wheelchair, Masters are all exempt- WHY

Not heard that rumour yet.

 Certainly the Sport England money is  much  easier to attract for those activities within our game you mention rather than for  the core product of boys and mens competitive  RL ,  without which of course our game would fold sooner than you think  at Tier 3 upwards.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Fairly detailed e mail on its way to all NCL clubs re RFL  membership fees with full presentation promised by NCL Management at next club's meeting.

Meanwhile News section  of Rugby League.com running with the story.......

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21 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Just NCL clubs?

Yes .

It was an NCL delegation looking for answers to questions that had been raised by the Management and members.

The contents of the e mail are  however  certainly not secret and would I am sure be of interest to some - I believe the Trade press may have  already been copied in and no doubt may mention it in monday's issues.

 There would  meanwhile be absolutely no problem with a club posting the Chairman's message on here if they wanted to - I don't have the IT skills I'm afraid......

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2 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Shows some contempt for the regionals who have also highlighted several areas of concern don’t you think 🤔 

No. Far from it.

The Regionals ( Tier 5 ) have their own structures and would no doubt be amongst the first to complain if Trevor and Mike ( Tier 4 ) went barging in on their behalf but not invited by the Regionals to do so.

That said I doubt that there are any areas of concern that were not covered by the NCL in what was a rigorous but more than well received visit to the RFL. The NCL clubs are in for a full presentation at their next meeting ( face to face would be better than by zoom  if at all possible) and what is then discussed will thereafter I am sure be widely shared - after all the NCL clubs probably represent more than 600 teams between them......

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40 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I know some of the regionals have written to the RFL so if the RFL are to respond, they should respond to everyone.

the NCL sides are no different to the regionals so should be shown the same level of respect 

If any of the. Regional Chairs / Secretaries/ Administrators have written to the RFL with queries then I agree they are entitled to a response . Who hasn't got one ?

All the Regionals are Tier 5 and largely owned by the RFL.

The NCL is Tier 4 and an Affiliate . Conference South also Tier 4 is owned by the RFL.

I would imagine that all  RFL  owned Leagues have been fully briefed already.

Surely you are not complaining about the NCL going over to Salford Quays to get some answers?

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No, we all want answers, my worry is any decisions or compromises will be made between the NCL and the RFL with no consideration given to the other clubs.

I’ll be honest with you, I’ve just about reached breaking point with rugby league, I don’t think there’s any other sport as inept !

it says something about the state of the sport when so many people are now highlighting its failings in the press 

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2 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

No, we all want answers, my worry is any decisions or compromises will be made between the NCL and the RFL with no consideration given to the other clubs.

I’ll be honest with you, I’ve just about reached breaking point with rugby league, I don’t think there’s any other sport as inept !

it says something about the state of the sport when so many people are now highlighting its failings in the press 

I'm not sure who you mean by ' we ' Rah Rah.

If you are a club member  with a query then ask your Chairman to ask his League Chairman to ask the RFL. You should get answers. 

If you are not a club member then join one ( preferably an NCL one ) and your routes to info / answers would be much easier

That's how it should work.

I can't speak for what you describe as  ' the state of the sport.' of RL. That's not down to the NCL - they are just trying to look after their own  corner and if other clubs benefit as well then so much the better.

The NCL certainly have the wider  community game at heart  - it's in all our interests to do so  - but they have never been asked to look after it. That remit lies elsewhere.

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On 02/07/2021 at 20:09, del capo said:

Yes .

It was an NCL delegation looking for answers to questions that had been raised by the Management and members.

The contents of the e mail are  however  certainly not secret and would I am sure be of interest to some - I believe the Trade press may have  already been copied in and no doubt may mention it in monday's issues.

 There would  meanwhile be absolutely no problem with a club posting the Chairman's message on here if they wanted to - I don't have the IT skills I'm afraid......

Trevor Hunt and Mike Denning, two leading figures from the Community Game, have pledged their support to the Our League Active Membership Participation Scheme.

Both spent a day at the RFL’s Media City offices last week when they challenged the leading administrators of the sport’s National Governing Body to back up the proposals with hard evidence of services delivered and the administration costs necessary to keep the sport safe, legal and financially sustainable.

Both had been leading challengers of the RFL’s desire to implement a membership scheme over a number of years.

Trevor Hunt is the Chair of the National Conference League and has been involved in the Community game for almost 50 years, including as a journalist and broadcaster; Mike Denning is Chair of Thatto Heath Crusaders, one of the strongest Community clubs who operate numerous teams for players from the age of 6 up to open-age.

Both had been a conduit for questions, concerns and criticisms of the RFL from Community Leagues and clubs and both were delighted to be given the opportunity of an “open-book” session, and determined to try and get some answers on behalf on the NCL Management Committee, that they could share with the greater game.

Trevor Hunt, who also sits on the RFL’s Community Board – a group of representatives elected by every constituent part of the Community Game to represent the interests of the game – said:

“To say that we were ‘Doubting Thomases’ of the sums being quoted and the work involved in providing the services, would be an understatement.

“Both Mike and myself are professionally heavily involved in multi-million pound Contract service procurement in the public and private sectors and we have used that experience and skills honed over many years to test the robustness of the proposals of the RFL, the evidence of services provided, complete with costs, and the justification for the move towards a subscription Membership Scheme.

“We were provided with evidence-based facts, figures, projections and case examples whilst being talked through the various legal processes that are undertaken on behalf of the Community game and the players and volunteers within it. And we were given a full understanding of the implications of non-compliance to an unsuspecting but well-meaning individual if any of these processes should not be completed appropriately, and then something went wrong! 

“We left the sessions with a full understanding of what the running of a Community Sport in 2021 (and beyond) necessitates to ensure compliance with numerous Government regulatory, medical and legal requirements; what this means to individuals, clubs and Leagues; and with a full and clear idea of the Sport England directives with regard to Community sport self-sustainability, training and education.

“There is a tremendous amount of work that goes on behind the scenes from a dedicated and enthusiastic team that deals with just the Community Game. Throughout the sessions it became more and more apparent that a Membership Scheme is a necessity if the Sport is to survive and build for the future.”

Mike Denning added: “Both Trevor and I came into this process knowing that any decisions on a membership scheme moving forward would not be popular with some in the Community Game. We are dealing with Clubs in the main that are situated in areas of depravation, recognized nationally and officially as still being in a pandemic and the economic impact that has had.

“We had a frank and open discussion with the RFL over operational costs and were satisfied in the justifications provided. As a Trustee and Volunteer of a community club I want what’s best for all of our members in terms of opportunities to play in the safest environment there is. The current level of regulation is necessary to keep us all safe and to grow the game.

“We have emphasised to the RFL that whilst in principle we support the introduction of a membership scheme there has to be room for the casual player and hardship cases. There has to be a transparent system of how the funds are managed and that trusted people from the community game must be invited to sit on a board which over sees the audit of the funds.

“We are in changing times and more than ever we need to work together on solutions to any loss of funding and the effects that has on our great game.”

Sandy Lindsay MBE, RFL Non-Executive Director and Chair of the Community Board, joined the latter part of the session. She said: “I was so impressed with and grateful for the amount of preparation and effort that Trevor and Mike brought to the day. They certainly put us through our paces and asked tough and necessary questions. I hope that the rest of the Community Game will take reassurance that these highly respected members of the Game have asked and had answered these questions on their behalf and the fact that they left satisfied that all is in order and that this membership programme is indeed essential.”

Trevor Hunt also suggested that an annual ‘audit’ of the membership programme fees and how they are spent should be carried out by a small number of Community Trustees, and this was agreed. It was also confirmed that the membership fees would be reviewed every two years, based on the needs of the Game.

Following previous consultation with a wide number of league and club representatives over the last few months, as well as a survey, it has been agreed that fees for Community Club based players will be set at: Cubs – free, under 11s - £12, under 18s - £18 and Open Age - £24. Volunteers, including coaches, will not be required to pay the membership, but will be given the option to, in order to support the game and gain the membership programme benefits, which will be extensive, including insurance, a wide range of discounts and a monthly prize draw.

The RFL is working on an extensive new player engagement hub to add to those benefits, which will launch as part of the membership programme in time for next season. This will be in addition to the wide-ranging and increasing benefits already announced. The membership will commence from when players register for the 2022 season.

“I am grateful to everyone who has given us their time and feedback to help us get the membership programme to where it is now,” Sandy Lindsay added.

“We are now at the stage of building the systems and testing them to ensure we’re ready for the new season. We will continue to need support and feedback from the Game as we do this and hope that people will continue to help us ensure we’re ready for 2022.”

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…and there we have it, signed sealed and delivered !

the concerns of the non NCL clubs haven’t been considered (no surprise there).

I just hope that there won’t be any traveling grants paid out to NCL clubs out of the membership tax, they have been well looked after by the RFL so hardly surprising they have announced their support

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4 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

…and there we have it, signed sealed and delivered !

the concerns of the non NCL clubs haven’t been considered (no surprise there).

I just hope that there won’t be any traveling grants paid out to NCL clubs out of the membership tax, they have been well looked after by the RFL so hardly surprising they have announced their support

 NCL travel grants have gone Rah Rah.

You seem to want to drive wedges within the amateur game. We have people at NCL level who know what they are doing, for the betterment of  all at the grassroots .  

Do you want to be driven over by the unstoppable  bus or do you want to jump on it and try to influence  the controls ?

 I owned that negotiators  tee shirt  25 + years ago. Got great deals  because I jumped on that bus instead of being run over by it  but too many  at Barla did not , and the wasted years followed.  The RFL is  a totally different animal ( though maybe still an animal ) to what it was then.

Still here though........

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There’s no Option to ‘jump on the bus’ to Influence decisions as they have already been made!

the NCL clubs have done very well out of the RFL over the years, transport grants, referee fees paid etc while the non NCL clubs carried on as normal.

Before you call me a dinosaur, Luddite or whatever, I’m all for a top tier of elite community clubs who do in my opinion offer much more to the game than most of the pro clubs one or two levels above them.

I would however like to have seen the Elite limited to 2 divisions of 14 or 16 teams rather than the 4 divisions the game has at present, as the bottom 2 divisions have significantly reduced the quality of the regional leagues

 

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