PARTICIPANT MEMBERSHIP FOR COMMUNITY GAME

[Marauder]

7 hours ago, Deep Heat said:

Obviously you haven't been around in the game for many years or you would know that the bulk of Barla`s money came from the sale of Leigh Centre of Excellence by which time Barla was already failing highly in numbers and from what I recall had to pay a vast amount to the tax man (corporation tax) which could have been avoided if they had the gumption or business sense to re-invest in property/assets.

From previous posts It appears that you are always griping about Barla -they were the first to assist our club with a welcome £1000 grant (paid within 48 hours) which helped us keep our head above water in the interim until other grants were forthcoming - credit where credit due I reckon

I havent been around BARLA for some time  in fact since 2019, when they (same people) wouldn't allow us to suspend our fixtures for 3 weeks to sort out an internal domestic between players, all we got was rule (rule forgot) would be implemented, this rule meant a none fulfilment fine, third time fixtures suspended, I was also around when they kicked out district league's for not paying their fees, they kicked Doncaster out on the grounds they didn't pay their fees, (I paid the fee every year as a sponsorship through my business) I never ever got an invoice for the fee, I even asked for one to be sent, never came, but we had openly supported Mr Prior for the BARLA top job, a proposal was put forward to change the league system to cater for teams who wanted a short season and for those who didn't want summer rugby, this was voted on by email (not the usual show of hands) we got told it was voted down, well I received emails or calls from more than half of the pennine clubs in support of the new system, at the moment BARLA is an organisation under a junta, the sale of the Leigh ground I admit to not knowing about, have you got a link to this. Should I go on about rep football and how the current crew basically killed it off by sacking the guys who made it all tick to take control themselves, I could go on but I have a club to run which I've been involved with since 1977, nearly forgot, we did sort our problems and currently have somewhere in the region of 62 players signed on.

[Marauder]

11 hours ago, JMB said:

Can i ask what youth leagues voted her on and when. Thanks

 

At a guess the same people who voted the two guys on from Kent and was it Telford.

[Deep Heat]

18 hours ago, JMB said:

Can i ask what youth leagues voted her on and when. Thanks

 

I assume the playing leagues i.e. Yorkshire Youth & Juniors / NWC Youth & Junior / Barrow Youth / Hull Youth/NE Youth

Does make you wonder why the rep isn't from NWC Youth or Yorkshire Youth who must have around 10000 youth players in each league !!

[zylya]

Just to be clear - when people ask about membership schemes within other sports, the truth is that a lot of sports DO have a scheme like this, however they're done at a club or team level rather than an individual level. As an example, my rugby union club pays an affiliation fee to its county RFU.

From my research, the only sports that charge participants individually are sports in which individuals compete (e.g. swimming). Team sports, especially RU and football charge based on clubs or teams - this is what the RFL SHOULD be doing, if there is a genuine need to raise funds.

[JMB]

19 hours ago, zylya said:

Just to be clear - when people ask about membership schemes within other sports, the truth is that a lot of sports DO have a scheme like this, however they're done at a club or team level rather than an individual level. As an example, my rugby union club pays an affiliation fee to its county RFU.

From my research, the only sports that charge participants individually are sports in which individuals compete (e.g. swimming). Team sports, especially RU and football charge based on clubs or teams - this is what the RFL SHOULD be doing, if there is a genuine need to raise funds.

Same as Rugby league clubs do now and always done, we have just paid ours recently

[del capo]

6 hours ago, JMB said:

Same as Rugby league clubs do now and always done, we have just paid ours recently

At the recent NCL clubs meeting Sandy Lindsay seemed amenable to the membership being paid through the clubs as an alternative if that is what some want.

A further club seminar will take place on 27th July. All clubs and interested parties invited and Kelly I understand will be circulating the details shortly.

[Deep Heat]

6 hours ago, JMB said:

Same as Rugby league clubs do now and always done, we have just paid ours recently

How much have you paid and to whom ?

Thought membership wasn't coming in until 2022

[del capo]

Just now, del capo said:

At the recent NCL clubs meeting Sandy Lindsay seemed amenable to the membership being paid through the clubs as an alternative if that is what some want.

A further club seminar will take place on 27th July. All clubs and interested parties invited and Kelly I understand will be circulating the details shortly.

I should have added that this is for ALL community clubs across the land.

[JMB]

20 hours ago, Deep Heat said:

How much have you paid and to whom ?

Thought membership wasn't coming in until 2022

We pay yearly to the rfl, when our league became a member league to the rfl, they also took over our league accounts, this season we paid £50 per team, to the rfl, all clubs pay it yearly, then I’m sure cup fees will be asked for shortly, so the rfl do get a bit of cash from the clubs and have always, 

[Marauder]

On 16/07/2021 at 17:15, del capo said:

I should have added that this is for ALL community clubs across the land.

Will the NCL be having a carrot dangled to get them on side.

[del capo]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Will the NCL be having a carrot dangled to get them on side.

There is nothing new on offer that I am aware of Marauder.

Why not hook in to the next clubs meeting on 27th and ask the RFL direct ?

[Deep Heat]

12 hours ago, Marauder said:

Will the NCL be having a carrot dangled to get them on side.

Log in to the clubs meeting and ask the question  `what is the cost to run the NCL` be interesting if you get an answer or an `honest` answer

Also the cost of running NWC / YML - all of which used to be run very well and `self funding` until RFL got their hands on the amateur game now it costs hundreds of thousands of pounds with a totally ###### website - Fixtures/Results are duplicated (Match Centre) these should be first point on opening the site, it appears Overseas Tours and Video`s take priority over fixtures/results these days - sounds about right !!

Since when did `fines` on players for discipline (YML) come into force, cant see anything in the rules - or is it another money making scheme, where do all the funds go for membership to leagues + unreturned bonds etc !!! all these need to be added into the Community Game `pot`- but there again this money may go towards staff costings on `tours`

RFL need to get the basics right

 

[del capo]

2 hours ago, Deep Heat said:

Log in to the clubs meeting and ask the question  `what is the cost to run the NCL` be interesting if you get an answer or an `honest` answer

Also the cost of running NWC / YML - all of which used to be run very well and `self funding` until RFL got their hands on the amateur game now it costs hundreds of thousands of pounds with a totally ###### website - Fixtures/Results are duplicated (Match Centre) these should be first point on opening the site, it appears Overseas Tours and Video`s take priority over fixtures/results these days - sounds about right !!

Since when did `fines` on players for discipline (YML) come into force, cant see anything in the rules - or is it another money making scheme, where do all the funds go for membership to leagues + unreturned bonds etc !!! all these need to be added into the Community Game `pot`- but there again this money may go towards staff costings on `tours`

RFL need to get the basics right

 

Not sure what you mean by  ' what is the cost to run the NCL '

The NCL clubs get their accounts every year at the AGM.

Pre pandemic it cost the NCL approx 22k expenditure to run but with income in excess of that the League remains with a reasonably healthy bank balance.

If what you really mean is 'What does it cost the RFL to service the NCL ' then that is a totally different question . And of course has been free up until now.

The NCL management have stress tested the figures. The Open age element of membership fees for the NCL   ( 2800 + players   which covers reserves and U18 players registered for Open Age ) will be  approx £65k.per year.

The spend by the RFL ( apportioned to the NCL ) will remain the same  ( no new carrots ) but far outweighs that membership cost. The NCL  could simply not afford to provide the services the RFL do. They do not have the logistics, structure. staff or income to do so. Regrettable but essential.

For the NCL , a no brainer.

Can't speak for the individual Tier 5 Leagues  either at open age or youth / juniors...

[Marauder]

5 hours ago, del capo said:

Not sure what you mean by  ' what is the cost to run the NCL '

The NCL clubs get their accounts every year at the AGM.

Pre pandemic it cost the NCL approx 22k expenditure to run but with income in excess of that the League remains with a reasonably healthy bank balance.

If what you really mean is 'What does it cost the RFL to service the NCL ' then that is a totally different question . And of course has been free up until now.

The NCL management have stress tested the figures. The Open age element of membership fees for the NCL   ( 2800 + players   which covers reserves and U18 players registered for Open Age ) will be  approx £65k.per year.

The spend by the RFL ( apportioned to the NCL ) will remain the same  ( no new carrots ) but far outweighs that membership cost. The NCL  could simply not afford to provide the services the RFL do. They do not have the logistics, structure. staff or income to do so. Regrettable but essential.

For the NCL , a no brainer.

Can't speak for the individual Tier 5 Leagues  either at open age or youth / juniors...

Have you become reliant on the RFL ? I'm sure one good full time administrator on 25k to 30k a year could do the does that are required.

[Marauder]

19 hours ago, del capo said:

There is nothing new on offer that I am aware of Marauder.

Why not hook in to the next clubs meeting on 27th and ask the RFL direct ?

Not a part of the NCL but always interested in their policies and procedures, (Good yard stick)

[del capo]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Have you become reliant on the RFL ? I'm sure one good full time administrator on 25k to 30k a year could do the does that are required.

We have become reliant upon each other Marauder.

Without the community game the flow of talent to the pro game ( they can't get it from anywhere else these days  ) will dry up and they will die. 

Without the RFL the Community game cannot afford to run in a legal and  Governmentally acceptable way. 7 admin staff are devoted entirely to the Community game and have to be paid for. The likes of Alan Smith ( the full time NCL and competitions administrator ) Kelly  and  Mark for starters....

It  used to cost BARLA  more than  £200 k  per year 40 years ago to run ( £180 k from the Sports Council- no longer available and the rest from club fees .) What you got then  for that -  Oldroyd O'donovan and Larder  (Tom K was on an honorarium ) -  bears no comparison to what we get now.

The 27th July virtual meeting I repeat  is for ALL clubs so get the invite and  join it. Everybody will get the full breakdowns then and can have their say.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

its all gone very quiet on this controversial subject, but last weekend, my local side had to sign on 4 players on a matchday last Saturday to make up numbers to fulfil a fixture.

It was the usual combination that affects all clubs at some stage in the season ie: unavailability, injuries, holidays and weddings!

So, based on the 'membership scheme' these players would have to pay £28 for the pleasure of helping the club out to fulfil a fixture and may only play one game all season!!

So, the alternative is that clubs will either have to forfeit fixtures and everyone loses or worse still, we will go back to the 'bad old days' when lads turned out under someone else's name !

Is this really the road the RFL wishes to travel, can the RFL not see how flawed this membership scheme is !!

If this draconian 'pay to play' tax is to be imposed on clubs, then can it be structured into a club membership rather than an individual member's scheme whereas the club pays the annual fee with a fee of £1000 for clubs with 1 open age side and a maximum cap set  £2500 so that clubs who do run multiple sides do not get penalised for developing the game?

I think most clubs would stomach that, every club official I have spoken has without exception said it will make signing players impossible and that this scheme will drive players from the game.

A club membership scheme could be spread out over a 12 month period with clubs paying monthly, some may even use it as a fundraiser at the start of a season to get the fee out of the way.

if the players membership in enforced on clubs, then I am sorry to say I hope it fails and that the people who sat at the table to agree this scheme are forced to resign their positions at the RFL. 

Sounds harsh, but the reality is that the games future is on a knife edge, playing numbers will continue to fall and clubs will go to the wall if this individual playing membership scheme is introduced

[chisholm]

Hate to say it but your exactly right.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

Well the season is almost over for another year, it’s been a horrible fragmented season of sorts.

Is there a plan or any other type of action from the RFL/Community Board to help rebuild the open age game, starting with any help or advice on league structures for 2022 to try and formulate a marketing campaign to try and drive up participation numbers?

Has there been any meaningful engagement with leagues or clubs to find out how covid has affected their playing members in 2021 and use that feedback to formulate a recruitment strategy?

if there has, what conclusions have been reached, …..if there hasn’t, we’ll why not?

Now more than ever the game needs some direction and strong leadership so let’s see what they can bring to the table !

 

[Archie Gordon]

Now that this is all a bit more real, does anyone have a better understanding of the insurance coverage than me? I understand the insurance part of this membership is for the player (and covers player-to-player). But insurance for the club is wider than that. Are clubs expecting to pay lower insurance premiums as they won't need the same coverage? I'm trying to work out what, if any, savings there'll be for our club.

Apologies if this is covered earlier in the thread.

[del capo]

On 19/11/2021 at 20:09, Archie Gordon said:

Now that this is all a bit more real, does anyone have a better understanding of the insurance coverage than me? I understand the insurance part of this membership is for the player (and covers player-to-player). But insurance for the club is wider than that. Are clubs expecting to pay lower insurance premiums as they won't need the same coverage? I'm trying to work out what, if any, savings there'll be for our club.

Apologies if this is covered earlier in the thread.

The insurance bill  received by your club from headquarters will be the last one you receive as in future it will be met by the RFL

A typical Community club with 2 Open Ages and a string of juniors paid around £1.5 k per year. That's the 'saving '.

A real growth in the female , masters and the other derivatives  expected next year will also be covered. Coaches , volunteers etc also covered but this is not a change - all the risks under the previous block policy remain as before. 

[Marauder]

On 16/07/2021 at 17:14, Deep Heat said:

How much have you paid and to whom ?

Thought membership wasn't coming in until 2022

League & BARLA fee's have been paid since the dawn of time.

[Northern Eel]

Quite amazed in twitter-land now  the Our League Active membership fee has become a reality, just how little players, parents (and seemingly some clubs) know of the ins and outs of it. You'd think that this had all been developed in a bunker in North Korea and information embargoed by clubs. In reality, the consultations have taken more than a year, the clubs have been offered numerous webinars and there is a whole section on the RFL website, yet it is still totally misunderstood (whether you like the idea or not, there are some basic facts that need communicating accurately).

[usain bolt]

Details of where the money's going, rather than generalisation would be a start. 

[Northern Eel]

13 minutes ago, usain bolt said:

Details of where the money's going, rather than generalisation would be a start. 

I am not saying this from a 'do you agree with the scheme or not?' stance, more so that people seem totally oblivious to the very basic facts - even at a club level in some instances. Even the detail that has been shared is being misquoted by some clubs and participants. It's really not difficult to understand.