Toulouse now kicking their heels for 3 weeks

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

We seem to have approached the point where P&R is a millstone around the game's neck. There just aren't enough clubs who can make the jump over the divide between Super League and Championship.

While it may seem fair and meritocratic to allow promotion on the field, Leigh are showing that it isn't, really.

If they’d been given their full share of the Sky money they’d have had a better chance. 

[Lowdesert]

15 hours ago, Scubby said:

Invite tenders for promotion to SL in 2022 now. There is a chance that the Championship will have the strongest club playing 6-10 less fixtures than anyone else. Give the club a chance to prepare for a huge step rather than force them to spew tonnes of cash and get no benefit from being a home side. They have just signed a ten year lease at a major stadium. They are being punished for preparing for long term growth.

I grew up as a kid watching Featherstone, but they are not in any position to either go full time or be sustainable. Other top clubs are surviving on loan players and are not being asked to prove they can add value to the competition.

From what I’ve seen, Featherstone are a good bet for promotion.  Just the same as any others that might win the league though, they will have little time to buy decent players.

[Lowdesert]

9 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

We seem to have approached the point where P&R is a millstone around the game's neck. There just aren't enough clubs who can make the jump over the divide between Super League and Championship.

While it may seem fair and meritocratic to allow promotion on the field, Leigh are showing that it isn't, really.

It isn’t.  Leigh will probably make some money out of it and ‘if’ (long way to go yet) they get relegated, will probably jump on the roundabout again.

 

[Dave T]

16 hours ago, Scubby said:

Invite tenders for promotion to SL in 2022 now. There is a chance that the Championship will have the strongest club playing 6-10 less fixtures than anyone else. Give the club a chance to prepare for a huge step rather than force them to spew tonnes of cash and get no benefit from being a home side. They have just signed a ten year lease at a major stadium. They are being punished for preparing for long term growth.

I grew up as a kid watching Featherstone, but they are not in any position to either go full time or be sustainable. Other top clubs are surviving on loan players and are not being asked to prove they can add value to the competition.

Whilst I don't disagree with the conclusion, as I am not against licensing - the game has rejected this approach - 2021 was a one-off due to exceptional circumstances, with the unprecedented situation of a club leaving the comp. 

The game has decided that it will utilise P&R, not licensing. I don't think the reasons you use are strong enough to override normal P&R and trigger another licensing round this season.

[Davo5]

51 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If they’d been given their full share of the Sky money they’d have had a better chance. 

I doubt it,all the best players were already under contract and Leigh would understandably  only be offering 1 year contracts.

[Davo5]

Just shows what a ridiculous decision it was for Superleague to turn down their application last year.

[Harry Stottle]

17 hours ago, Scubby said:

Imagine if they could apply for SL now and actually spend 11 months preparing to create a vibrant SL club

I would have loved for my club to do that Scubby, and I imagine quite a few other Championship clubs would have accepted that arrangement.

And, I would imagine you still want ringfencing from relegation?

[hrtbps]

Sometimes I wonder if the sport hadn't spent 30 years prioritising hypothetical fans over actual fans, it wouldn't be quite so on its ######.

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

We seem to have approached the point where P&R is a millstone around the game's neck. There just aren't enough clubs who can make the jump over the divide between Super League and Championship.

While it may seem fair and meritocratic to allow promotion on the field, Leigh are showing that it isn't, really.

Exactly my point, throw Covid over that for 2021 and it is ten times worse. There are still lots of Championship clubs utilising furlough, no income from spectators is highlighting what a hand to mouth existence it is. Building to actually achieve promotion and sustain growth is bottom of the pile of priorities. Toulouse, however, are being made to play the game to different rules and spend at a level others are not simply to facilitate this P&R façade we are in this year.

[Scubby]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I would have loved for my club to do that Scubby, and I imagine quite a few other Championship clubs would have accepted that arrangement.

And, I would imagine you still want ringfencing from relegation?

Relegating clubs isn't a problem Harry. Replacing them with strong clubs is.

[Click]

15 minutes ago, hrtbps said:

Sometimes I wonder if the sport hadn't spent 30 years prioritising hypothetical fans over actual fans, it wouldn't be quite so on its ######.

What hypothetical fans have been prioritised for the last 30 years exactly?

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Relegating clubs isn't a problem Harry. Replacing them with strong clubs is.

But what you are suggesting in effect completely changes the promotion structure, no waiting till the last game of the Championship season to see if you have secured the finances to buy for next, and because it is also the penultimate weekend of the season most player's will have been signed up for the next year, your 11 month preperation period means being able to offer SL rugby to any player.

[Griff]

11 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Relegating clubs isn't a problem Harry. Replacing them with strong clubs is.

Most folk on this forum seem to be very much in favour of promotion.

Not so keen on relegation.  It's all a bit unfair and thed wrong teams keep going down.

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Griff said:

Most folk on this forum seem to be very much in favour of promotion.

Not so keen on relegation.  It's all a bit unfair and thed wrong teams keep going down.

P&R worked when you didn't have to overhaul the club for 9 months of SL life. In the 1980s, it was go up sign a few decent part-time players and go for it. Now you are asking the majority of club players to give up playing part-time for #### wages and only 9 months guaranteed employment. It is nuts. If the majority of clubs in the Championship were full-time P&R would work well.

At the moment, it is Toulouse plus part time clubs. Even London is not a proper full time operation (it is done on bare bones). Because of that, the competition is punishing the full time club at the expense of the skint ones. Yet they are all playing to become full time clubs at 3 months notice.

[Scubby]

20 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

But what you are suggesting in effect completely changes the promotion structure, no waiting till the last game of the Championship season to see if you have secured the finances to buy for next, and because it is also the penultimate weekend of the season most player's will have been signed up for the next year, your 11 month preperation period means being able to offer SL rugby to any player.

What I am saying is that a combination of poverty and Covid means that the Championship clubs are weaker than ever in 2021. No income, loaning multiple players to put out a 17, furloughing staff (still) and no fans. There is just one club actually preparing to be a sustainable SL club at the moment. 

This has changed dramatically in even 2-3 years where you had 3-4 Championship clubs pretty much full time and operating at £1m salaries. Sadly, that time has gone and so has the cash. Some of these Championship squads are on absolute peanuts. We can't pretend it is 2018/9 anymore. For that reason 2021 should be treated like 2020 and applications for promotion based on sustainability - give a club a chance to plan. Things may improve again in 2022 and Championship clubs may recover. At the moment they are ghost clubs many of them. Covid has consequences.

[binosh]

I can honestly see more COVID restrictions, this new Indian variant will sweep across Europe no doubt.

I can see relegation being removed and promotion remaining in some way shape or form.

Teams can talk to players (officially) from next week making it even more urgent to confirm the strategy for this year & next. A team like Leigh 3 games into SL could potentially lose their best players before the league has even got to fans being allowed back in. 

[Man of Kent]

37 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Exactly my point, throw Covid over that for 2021 and it is ten times worse. There are still lots of Championship clubs utilising furlough, no income from spectators is highlighting what a hand to mouth existence it is. Building to actually achieve promotion and sustain growth is bottom of the pile of priorities. Toulouse, however, are being made to play the game to different rules and spend at a level others are not simply to facilitate this P&R façade we are in this year.

It is a facade. I agree. We pretend RL P&R is like football P&R and all nice and competitive but the reality is the playing field is more uneven than Batley's pitch.  

[Angelic Cynic]

Sheffield Eagles are playing their home games,during the 2021 season,at The Keepmoat.Doncaster.An all-seater stadium of a League 1 soccer club that could accommodate,and has accommodated,a crowd for a Challenge Cup semi- final.

One of the better stadia where rugby league is played,in England. 

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

It is a facade. I agree. We pretend RL P&R is like football P&R and all nice and competitive but the reality is the playing field is more uneven than Batley's pitch.  

I really don't know why Toulouse stick at it and put up with it mate. Honestly, they are being punished because they don't have a loud mouth owner and bombastic approach to the sport.

[Man of Kent]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I really don't know why Toulouse stick at it and put up with it mate. Honestly, they are being punished because they don't have a loud mouth owner and bombastic approach to the sport.

I'm sure what TO are doing hasn't gone unnoticed by Super League.  I just hope there is a plan.

[Rob Nash]

18 hours ago, Scubby said:

None of the other clubs in the Championship are actually planning and preparing to create a sustainable SL club. They can't go to Toulouse because they can't be designated elite professional sport as they are doing p/t on the cheap. The RFL won't support it either and they were trying to force London to go but no one else.

The competition is asking Toulouse to make the type of financial sacrifice that is making this a two-tier competition. Imagine if they could apply for SL now and actually spend 11 months preparing to create a vibrant SL club. We want them to travel to Sheffield and play on a park field (and not even get to play in their 19k stadium they have just secured) because the RFL and part-time clubs are not up to elite professional standards. Not only that they are being asked get every win away from home and other clubs dodge a tough away trip.

Nope.  The Keepmoat.

[Smudger06]

Toulouse probably stick at it because they are a RL Club as the others are and they want to play the game at the highest possible level, Elite One Championship is a very long way off satisfying that requirement. Home Field Advantage is not so much an advantage currently either. If you apply to join any overseas league you must surely understand that you are going to have substantially higher costs than the bulk of teams. 

[Smudger06]

I find it baffling that people keep demanding an international calendar vs the likes of Samoa & Tonga yet these same people scream blue murder when the likes of Leigh or Featherstone get a look in at Super League.  

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

I sometimes think the sport doesnt deserve France. Can you imagine any other niche looking at the largest city in the south of France, the potential of two huge french derbies and saying "nah. Not interested".

Just lock them in from next year and keep p and r for uk teams.  And if we  can we not make stupid strawman comparisons to Toronto or PSG when we do it, that would be great. 

No other English based comp has chased a French derby I don't think. I would have Toulouse in tomorrow, but let's not make out it's a no-brainer - that leads us to failure over and over. 

It needs to be done right, and Toulouse are doing well and will hopefully get their chance.

[Griff]

3 hours ago, Scubby said:

P&R worked when you didn't have to overhaul the club for 9 months of SL life. In the 1980s, it was go up sign a few decent part-time players and go for it. Now you are asking the majority of club players to give up playing part-time for #### wages and only 9 months guaranteed employment. It is nuts. If the majority of clubs in the Championship were full-time P&R would work well.

 

If if if ........

We just have to play the hand we've been dealt, I'm afraid.