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Toulouse now kicking their heels for 3 weeks


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3 hours ago, Scubby said:

P&R worked when you didn't have to overhaul the club for 9 months of SL life. In the 1980s, it was go up sign a few decent part-time players and go for it. Now you are asking the majority of club players to give up playing part-time for #### wages and only 9 months guaranteed employment. It is nuts. If the majority of clubs in the Championship were full-time P&R would work well.

 

If if if ........

We just have to play the hand we've been dealt, I'm afraid.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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13 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Superleague & plan 😂😂

At the very least TO could be given a Catalans-style, time-limited indemnity from relegation. Perhaps for a French player quid pro quo as suggested elsewhere. Wouldn't cost a penny but would make a huge difference to their long-term prospects.

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4 hours ago, binosh said:

I can honestly see more COVID restrictions, this new Indian variant will sweep across Europe no doubt.

I can see relegation being removed and promotion remaining in some way shape or form.

Teams can talk to players (officially) from next week making it even more urgent to confirm the strategy for this year & next. A team like Leigh 3 games into SL could potentially lose their best players before the league has even got to fans being allowed back in. 

Can we have James Bell back please ? 

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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

No other English based comp has chased a French derby I don't think. I would have Toulouse in tomorrow, but let's not make out it's a no-brainer - that leads us to failure over and over. 

It needs to be done right, and Toulouse are doing well and will hopefully get their chance.

I think it is a no brainer though.  You've got a city of half a million in the heartlands of your sport and a ready made rivalry waiting. This is a clear example of economies of scale.  

Instead we are asking Toulouse to sink stupid amounts of cash in a part time league.  I dont this is what doing it right looks like. 

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I’m assuming all the pro Toulouse in super league fans already support a club in sl. Would you be happy to admit and ring fence them at your clubs expense 

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sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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23 minutes ago, DEANO said:

I’m assuming all the pro Toulouse in super league fans already support a club in sl. Would you be happy to admit and ring fence them at your clubs expense 

It's the wrong assumption.

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There won't be relegation. Promotion will probably be farcacle too but let's promote Toulouse because it's a big City.

Blame Degsy, and get the fans back in quick I say. I cannot wait for these Toulouse sell outs week in week out. 😮

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4 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

I think it is a no brainer though.  You've got a city of half a million in the heartlands of your sport and a ready made rivalry waiting. This is a clear example of economies of scale.  

Instead we are asking Toulouse to sink stupid amounts of cash in a part time league.  I dont this is what doing it right looks like. 

I understand your point. However Toulouse v Bordeaux would be the ready made rivalry. It is called Le Derby la Garonne in football.

 

 

 

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On 25/04/2021 at 18:31, Scubby said:

Nope I understand these are void fixtures. I stand to be corrected so no 24-0.

I believe the Widnes game is going ahead, but TO will be travelling to the UK for it

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16 hours ago, Griff said:

We just have to play the hand we've been dealt, I'm afraid.

Which is what the RFL is doing, as far as I can tell. The SL clubs chose not to admit Toulouse. It's not practical for clubs with part-time players to travel to Toulouse and then isolate for the required period afterwards. Nor is it practical for them to operate with the level of Covid security and testing that the SL clubs can. For a while in Feb/ March, it was looking like travel to/from France might have been completely off the cards anyway. Just have get as many games in (for all clubs) as we can, do the best to make the competition fair and hope the Covid situation in France improves. At some point this season, there will be moans that Toulouse got all these weeks off, didn't have to play people who weren't quite fit, and so on.

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23 minutes ago, Scubby said:

At their own expense? 

It's always at their expense. They would have been paying for Widnes to travel to Toulouse so it makes no difference. 

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19 hours ago, Scubby said:

What I am saying is that a combination of poverty and Covid means that the Championship clubs are weaker than ever in 2021. No income, loaning multiple players to put out a 17, furloughing staff (still) and no fans. There is just one club actually preparing to be a sustainable SL club at the moment. 

This has changed dramatically in even 2-3 years where you had 3-4 Championship clubs pretty much full time and operating at £1m salaries. Sadly, that time has gone and so has the cash. Some of these Championship squads are on absolute peanuts. We can't pretend it is 2018/9 anymore. For that reason 2021 should be treated like 2020 and applications for promotion based on sustainability - give a club a chance to plan. Things may improve again in 2022 and Championship clubs may recover. At the moment they are ghost clubs many of them. Covid has consequences.

Hi Scubby, you are missing the point of why I reacted to your suggested "Imagine if they (Toulouse) could apply for SL now and actually spend 11 months preparing to create a vibrant SL club"

I get your point about finances and part time player's etc, but any of the 'hopefuls' for promition given that amount of preperation time along with guaranteed finances through funding of 2M and also having the opportunity to approach players and secure a squad long before the penultimate weekend of the season when we find most player's already tied up with a club for the following season, would you not agree that would greatly help any club in making the transition to SL from the Championship and not just Toulouse. 

I can see your reasoning and your preference for Toulouse to do wellm but as it stands at the moment Toulouse would be no different to Leigh going up in '17 or more like and up to date Toronto in '19 who had all the finances available but were 'shackled' by the Salary Cap and players already on contract at the club to be honoured. So for me if the P&R system was rejigged in some way that any promoted club was allowed what you suggest should apply to Toulouse then I am in agreement with you, but as long as the sun shines I will never ever agree with you and others on ringfencing any club from relegation whilst others playing in the same format are subjected to it. 

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16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi Scubby, you are missing the point of why I reacted to your suggested "Imagine if they (Toulouse) could apply for SL now and actually spend 11 months preparing to create a vibrant SL club"

I get your point about finances and part time player's etc, but any of the 'hopefuls' for promition given that amount of preperation time along with guaranteed finances through funding of 2M and also having the opportunity to approach players and secure a squad long before the penultimate weekend of the season when we find most player's already tied up with a club for the following season, would you not agree that would greatly help any club in making the transition to SL from the Championship and not just Toulouse. 

I can see your reasoning and your preference for Toulouse to do wellm but as it stands at the moment Toulouse would be no different to Leigh going up in '17 or more like and up to date Toronto in '19 who had all the finances available but were 'shackled' by the Salary Cap and players already on contract at the club to be honoured. So for me if the P&R system was rejigged in some way that any promoted club was allowed what you suggest should apply to Toulouse then I am in agreement with you, but as long as the sun shines I will never ever agree with you and others on ringfencing any club from relegation whilst others playing in the same format are subjected to it. 

I think we could actually go back to proper P&R in 2022 if that is what the game wants. I think hopefully Widnes and Bradford will at least have consolidated and others crippled by Covid actually found their feet. But anyone who thinks a club like Featherstone isn't absolutely crippled financially because of the situation right now is kidding themselves. Just because they can get a few results on the field it will not hide the fact that business plans have been shredded, staff still on furlough, players on ###### wages taking a further pay cut etc. They are in no position to move into SL and full time status at 3 months notice.

The only club who has been sustainably planning for a long term SL future is Toulouse. Remember they are currently paying double/treble in overheads what everyone else is with travel and subsidising other teams. Yet they are a heartland club, full time and actually haven't lost a regular league game since July 2019. Surely, the game can see the bloody obvious in another Covid hit season? I commend Leigh for going up and having a go, but financially they were the only option outside Toulouse.

Toulouse may win the comp this year, but the game will be worse off for giving them only 3 months to prepare for a huge leap to SL in times we should be saving money, not throwing it away. Getting sponsors, convincing players to commit in the current climate is a long slog.

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5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

FEATHERSTONE, They are in no position to move into SL and full time status at 3 months notice.

Agree, and you also say

7 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Toulouse may win the comp this year, but the game will be worse of for giving them only 3 months to prepare

But this is the crux of the discussion, Toulouse would be greatly assisted by giving 12 months prep and the secured Finances, Leigh on the same respect would not have gone into this season with a Championship squad, and Fev would have that 3 month period extended to 11 months.

As far as I see it, if a club is based in England, Canada or France the same conditions of entry through Promotion and the jeapordy of Relegation should be same for all clubs, no special dispensations should be awarded to any club.

22 minutes ago, Scubby said:

TOULOUSE actually haven't lost a regular league game since July 2019.

I was looking forward to watching Leigh v Toulouse home and away last season,  was also very interested in the outcome of Toulouse's encounters with Fev. Like Toulouse, Leigh and Fev strengthened their teams for the 2020 season and also like Toulouse were unbeaten in the League last season, we may disagree but I would have taken both Leigh or Fev to win the Championship last season, but alas we will never find that out.

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7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Agree, and you also say

But this is the crux of the discussion, Toulouse would be greatly assisted by giving 12 months prep and the secured Finances, Leigh on the same respect would not have gone into this season with a Championship squad, and Fev would have that 3 month period extended to 11 months.

As far as I see it, if a club is based in England, Canada or France the same conditions of entry through Promotion and the jeapordy of Relegation should be same for all clubs, no special dispensations should be awarded to any club.

I was looking forward to watching Leigh v Toulouse home and away last season,  was also very interested in the outcome of Toulouse's encounters with Fev. Like Toulouse, Leigh and Fev strengthened their teams for the 2020 season and also like Toulouse were unbeaten in the League last season, we may disagree but I would have taken both Leigh or Fev to win the Championship last season, but alas we will never find that out.

I commend Leigh for taking the offer to go into SL but I was disgusted at the actual terms. Leigh should have been getting more money than the rest in SL not less. They should have had allowances on the cap for one year to pay overs to build the squad at short notice. It was a disgraceful offer from a group of self serving clubs who didn't give a #### about the health of the game. Leigh may survive but the likelihood is that is they will probably do the job the other 11 SL clubs intended.

Many clubs in SL do not want strong, well prepared clubs going into their competition for obvious selfish reasons. To me, the only way to grow SL is to bring in well prepared strong clubs. 2021 and Covid mixed in with all this is making a mockery of promotion and relegation. There is currently is club in the Championship on no meaningful central funding more sustainable than much of the bottom half of SL on £1.6m central funding. They don't want competition.

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53 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I commend Leigh for taking the offer to go into SL but I was disgusted at the actual terms. Leigh should have been getting more money than the rest in SL not less. 

Many clubs in SL do not want strong, well prepared clubs going into their competition for obvious selfish reasons. To me, the only way to grow SL is to bring in well prepared strong clubs. There is currently is club in the Championship on no meaningful central funding more sustainable than much of the bottom half of SL on £1.6m central funding. They don't want competition.

I enjoyed that and memories of Licensing comes to mind, albeit that licensing years ago seemed to want to ring fence expansion clubs in Wales and London IIRC??

This could be what Phil caplan is hinting at in terms of a restructure? But Licensing with an aim to ring fence the big money clubs? For isn't this the central issue - less SKY money can be negated by more private money?

I think you have something there

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21 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

I think it is a no brainer though.  You've got a city of half a million in the heartlands of your sport and a ready made rivalry waiting. This is a clear example of economies of scale.  

Instead we are asking Toulouse to sink stupid amounts of cash in a part time league.  I dont this is what doing it right looks like. 

As I say, I am supportive of Toulouse making SL, but what about them makes it a no-brainer for you? As in, the actual RL club, not the city.

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On 25/04/2021 at 17:49, Scubby said:

I haven't got a clue. Toulouse should be able to apply for promotion to SL as per 2021. They are being punished for being the only full time professional elite sports team in a part-time cashless Championship. You can't keep punishing them for having fixtures scheduled against part-time skint clubs who can't (or won't) travel.

If they aren't SL ready, how come no one else in the league is being considered an elite professional sports club for fulfilling fixtures?

Clearly. The details and reasoning behind the Championship structure together with potential contingencies were laid out by the RFL weeks before the season commenced.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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