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Championship TV deal getting closer


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4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

If I knew that is going all to the game then yes. You really have to see what WatchNRL have done with the platform. I would never have seen me part with £100 just for NRL but the platform and app are amazing, loads of shows, junior and senior games - it feels like an app for the sport. Every singly NRL game and NSW Cup game is on there. Premier Sport is just another random subscription footprint out there to me. That is just my view.

Fair enough - I get that

7 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The best deal the Championship could get with Premier is some games going onto Freesports. That will give it decent exposure and help with profile. Also hopefully a bit of cash for clubs but PS never pay much at all for coverage.

I think the Championship clubs will be chasing cash initially not the exposure - I expect they will feel that guaranteed money is better than potential at the minute, they need to close the gap on the funding they're losing to keep going as they are

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2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Fair enough - I get that

I think the Championship clubs will be chasing cash initially not the exposure - I expect they will feel that guaranteed money is better than potential at the minute, they need to close the gap on the funding they're losing to keep going as they are

I don't blame them mate, even if it is £30-40k apiece up front it will really help. Hopefully, the deal can allow Our League to keep showing some games too as it seems popular. It is a shame fans have to make a decision where to pay/watch their favourite sport across loads of places but we are not prepared to have a long term strategy. That means we have to take what we can get.

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27 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I enjoy championship games but I am not subbing £9.99 for premier sports, I've not even bought a £4.95 on Our League game yet. It's not about the cost, I just have so much sport available to me it passes me by. I have Sky, Watch NRL plus stuff on the internet and terrestrial. A Watch NRL model for non Sky games, shows and Championship games would be great but it needs to be done properly not ad hoc like Our League are doing. I would pay an annual subscription for that.

agree with this.. spend some time and money on the Our League app. Get it up and running properly etc. I would pay money to the game to watch that. I would rather spend the money direct to the game than get all the other bits and pieces of someone like premier sports. There is that much rubbish on across the board I dont really want to add another full channel to the mix, in fact we are about to get rid of Virgin media to go to freeview + apps (Netflix, amazon, Disney, Now TV etc) because it concentrates the telly to less ###### (and we will get aerial based freeview on only 1 of the tvs the rest will just get internet tv through apps + chromecast).. give me 1 app that gives me exactly what i want and no more and i would be more than happy to pay for it where as another channel with a load of stuff i really am not that interested in and just some of something i am and its less worth it.

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2 minutes ago, RP London said:

agree with this.. spend some time and money on the Our League app. Get it up and running properly etc. I would pay money to the game to watch that. I would rather spend the money direct to the game than get all the other bits and pieces of someone like premier sports. There is that much rubbish on across the board I dont really want to add another full channel to the mix, in fact we are about to get rid of Virgin media to go to freeview + apps (Netflix, amazon, Disney, Now TV etc) because it concentrates the telly to less ###### (and we will get aerial based freeview on only 1 of the tvs the rest will just get internet tv through apps + chromecast).. give me 1 app that gives me exactly what i want and no more and i would be more than happy to pay for it where as another channel with a load of stuff i really am not that interested in and just some of something i am and its less worth it.

Exactly, Our League have actually done the hard work to get it to this point. They now need a V2 that is a complete viewer experience platform. If they can negotiate odd SL games going on there with permission from Sky (plus full replays) you might be onto something. The whole games needs to pull together on this.

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44 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I enjoy championship games but I am not subbing £9.99 for premier sports, I've not even bought a £4.95 on Our League game yet. It's not about the cost, I just have so much sport available to me it passes me by.

Probably the only people who're going to pay specifically for Championship RL are existing fans of Championship RL clubs. So the question is - can you monetise that better by selling it direct to the customers through OurLeague or by using Premier Sports to do it? Can you do either/ both without badly hurting the attendance figures when crowds are allowed?

You possibly get a little extra exposure to people who bought Premier sports to watch something else, you possibly get a little exposure for games on Freesports from people idly flicking channels. Not convinced that results in too many extra customers either for the clubs or for their mostly local sponsors.

The audiences for Women's RL games on Twitch are likely to be bigger than PremierSports/ Ourleague, so if it's exposure without any associated income that you're after, start a women's team.

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Just now, JonM said:

Probably the only people who're going to pay specifically for Championship RL are existing fans of Championship RL clubs. So the question is - can you monetise that better by selling it direct to the customers through OurLeague or by using Premier Sports to do it? Can you either/both without badly hurting the attendance figures when crowds are allowed?

You possibly get a little extra exposure to people who bought Premier sports to watch something else, you possibly get a little exposure for games on Freesports from people idly flicking channels. Not convinced that results in too many extra customers either for the clubs or for their mostly local sponsors.

The audiences for Women's RL games on Twitch are likely to be bigger than PremierSports/ Ourleague, so if it's exposure without any associated income that you're after, start a women's team.

Thing is Jon, I would pay for a whole game effort. But I really can't be arsed grazing around YouTube, Twitch, Premier Sports, Sky, Facebook etc. I am not specifically a Championship fan but would sub to watch a combination of Champion, League 1, Women's odd non-Sky SL game. Our League has done the hard work but the game needs to embrace it. 

I enjoy some Championship but I am not an avid follower of a team so it is a tough ask for me to go to Premier and dig out a tenner a month. Like my RL Cares subscription, I might pay £100 a year for V2 of Our League - you have to keep at it and build. 

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6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Thing is Jon, I would pay for a whole game effort. But I really can't be arsed grazing around YouTube, Twitch, Premier Sports, Sky, Facebook etc. I am not specifically a Championship fan but would sub to watch a combination of Champion, League 1, Women's odd non-Sky SL game. Our League has done the hard work but the game needs to embrace it. 

I enjoy some Championship but I am not an avid follower of a team so it is a tough ask for me to go to Premier and dig out a tenner a month. Like my RL Cares subscription, I might pay £100 a year for V2 of Our League - you have to keep at it and build. 

This is close to where I am getting to with this.

A 'deal' with Premier smacks a bit of 'easy fix' when a smarter option might be (note: might) to build Our League into something decent. Have enough free content out there (examples are mounting from other sports now) to generate interest but have live games and *decent* analysis and magazine content on the app available first to paid subscribers and then after a delay to any registered users.

I don't think the money and exposure from Premier Sports will be good enough. I'd rather see us properly embrace digital platforms.

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12 minutes ago, JonM said:

Probably the only people who're going to pay specifically for Championship RL are existing fans of Championship RL clubs. So the question is - can you monetise that better by selling it direct to the customers through OurLeague or by using Premier Sports to do it? Can you do either/ both without badly hurting the attendance figures when crowds are allowed?

You possibly get a little extra exposure to people who bought Premier sports to watch something else, you possibly get a little exposure for games on Freesports from people idly flicking channels. Not convinced that results in too many extra customers either for the clubs or for their mostly local sponsors.

The audiences for Women's RL games on Twitch are likely to be bigger than PremierSports/ Ourleague, so if it's exposure without any associated income that you're after, start a women's team.

1 or 2 champ matches on premier sports or all of the champ matches on ourleague (as now). Some none sky super league potentially, have a highlights package of league one, some of the womens game etc.. None of that then stops you putting some of it on twitch (or whatever platform), a game a week say, or selling some of the content to other people to get better exposure. But to have it all (with exclusive bits) in one place on OurLeague I would definitely pay for. 

The key is that they can own the content and resell it if they want or use it through these other channels to drive exposure, but there is an element of control that they dont have by selling the rights to premier for very little. Its different with SKY where you need to lose an element of control to get the exposure but to send the 2nd tier behind a paywall of a small channel that you have to remember it is on (as certainly through virgin you have to go through some "dead channels" to get to it when flicking through the tv guide/channels) seems to be the wrong way to go IMHO

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Championship TV rights have consistently been worth £0 - going right the way back to the days of the Northern Ford Premiership asking to exit the Sky TV contract. And please don't try to tell me Sky paid X amount for them in the current deal, the sum announced (or rather, leaked) by Nigel Wood was the clubs' distribution not the game's income. Anything above £0 is a bonus so, as others have said, for that sort of money you'd have to start considering the future development of OurLeague instead.

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Does anybody have any of the historical figures for Premier Sports when the Championship was on around 06/07?

I don't see the Championship or League 1 getting much money at all. Maybe £1m at the most. I know the clubs will most certainly miss the money from TV revenue (who wouldn't), but I'd love to know if any terrestrial channel would be interested in showing it. 

I think the game would be better having a highlights packing on ITV on an Monday evening, like Rugby League Raw (but not that raw)

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1 hour ago, Scubby said:

I enjoy championship games but I am not subbing £9.99 for premier sports, I've not even bought a £4.95 on Our League game yet. It's not about the cost, I just have so much sport available to me it passes me by. I have Sky, Watch NRL plus stuff on the internet and terrestrial. A Watch NRL model for non Sky games, shows and Championship games would be great but it needs to be done properly not ad hoc like Our League are doing. I would pay an annual subscription for that.

It's why I'm not as up on the NRL. There's only so much time to spend watching. Some may have more, and that's fine, but not every RL fan watches every game, or even wants to.

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5 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

It's why I'm not as up on the NRL. There's only so much time to spend watching. Some may have more, and that's fine, but not every RL fan watches every game, or even wants to.

I don't disagree with that. However, it has to be more accessible if people do want to watch it - either in one place or FTA. I had actually forgotten that Premier Sports still existed. If they can get coverage on freesports and bag some cash then it will be a result for Championship clubs.

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13 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

It's why I'm not as up on the NRL. There's only so much time to spend watching. Some may have more, and that's fine, but not every RL fan watches every game, or even wants to.

totally agree that we don't have time to watch them all but I would also quite like to chose the one I watch when I do have time rather than having to watch the one that the channel deem is the one I should want to watch.. developing Ourleague in this way would give me that option and that is worth a bit more to me. As mentioned you can then also put some out to other platforms but you are in control of that a bit more. 

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27 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

Does anybody have any of the historical figures for Premier Sports when the Championship was on around 06/07?

I don't see the Championship or League 1 getting much money at all. Maybe £1m at the most. I know the clubs will most certainly miss the money from TV revenue (who wouldn't), but I'd love to know if any terrestrial channel would be interested in showing it. 

I think the game would be better having a highlights packing on ITV on an Monday evening, like Rugby League Raw (but not that raw)

Clubs are caught between money and strategy at the moment and that is understandable. Terrestrial TV is not hitting the demographic for the game to survive as appealing as it sounds and there is no money in it.

Our League has promise but it doesn't look like any sort of meaningful investment is planned to help it grow. With England coverage, SL, Championship, Women's, Show/Features it should have the potential for subs worldwide paying monthly or annually in 2-3 years. It's perfect for ex-pats and other RL nations. Sadly, the app looks like the game - promising but messy and done on the cheap.

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1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Thing is Jon, I would pay for a whole game effort. But I really can't be arsed grazing around YouTube, Twitch, Premier Sports, Sky, Facebook etc.

I'm not sure who at the RFL is responsible for OurLeague, but I think they've done a very good job so far on what is presumably a limited budget, in an organisation not always known for its forward thinking. It does look like the goal is to get to something like what you've outlined. It's only a couple of years ago that we had lots of people on here struggling to actually watch games online, and others (like me) commenting that they'd be happy to pay for it. I suspect we're reaching the point where it starts to make money rather than being a cost. Some kind of hook-up with the NRL app would seem to be worth investigating. It's a bit chicken and egg though - would be a brave decision to forego a Sky SL contract and distribute & monetise the content ourselves. 

I do think there is some value to putting some content on other apps from time to time - any game you watch on Twitch or Facebook you can guarantee there's going to be comments from people who haven't seen the game before and who are interested by what they're seeing.

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13 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Clubs are caught between money and strategy at the moment and that is understandable. Terrestrial TV is not hitting the demographic for the game to survive as appealing as it sounds and there is no money in it.

Our League has promise but it doesn't look like any sort of meaningful investment is planned to help it grow. With England coverage, SL, Championship, Women's, Show/Features it should have the potential for subs worldwide paying monthly or annually in 2-3 years. It's perfect for ex-pats and other RL nations. Sadly, the app looks like the game - promising but messy and done on the cheap.

Add to all that the fact that people want choice. With the advent of Sky and all the other channels that have grown people are getting to watch more things (be it quality or quasi reality tv rubbish).. by signing up to the rights being given to a broadcaster you take away an element of choice to the viewer. While this can have its benefits the rights holder normally has to pay a good sum to have that control. Even that model is changing, britbox, netflix etc show that people want to watch whatever they like whenever they like without those in power deciding when they will put the show back on (as they all did with videos etc too but now we can offer more and more and more live programming). 

IMHO this demand will grow over time to also encompass live sport, people will want the option to watch who they want and the match they want and not be dictated to by those companies. We can be at the forefront of this move with the championship, womens, league one etc perhaps then super league to follow which brings in foreign subscriptions. 

its all a great big "might" becuase they do need to spend a bit to make this happen.  

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Just now, RP London said:

Add to all that the fact that people want choice. With the advent of Sky and all the other channels that have grown people are getting to watch more things (be it quality or quasi reality tv rubbish).. by signing up to the rights being given to a broadcaster you take away an element of choice to the viewer. While this can have its benefits the rights holder normally has to pay a good sum to have that control. Even that model is changing, britbox, netflix etc show that people want to watch whatever they like whenever they like without those in power deciding when they will put the show back on (as they all did with videos etc too but now we can offer more and more and more live programming). 

IMHO this demand will grow over time to also encompass live sport, people will want the option to watch who they want and the match they want and not be dictated to by those companies. We can be at the forefront of this move with the championship, womens, league one etc perhaps then super league to follow which brings in foreign subscriptions. 

its all a great big "might" becuase they do need to spend a bit to make this happen.  

Exactly, we get caught up in what people might watch or pay for now against what the model will be in 5 years time. What will 18-35s want to pay for in 2025? They won't want landlines or sky boxes etc. Only problem is the game is so skint it is living hand to mouth so cannot build a model to take us into the new world. They have to grab any money they can beit from Sky or Premier Sports. I wouldn't have said this 5 years ago but the 2 major RL countries in the world need to be working as one global brand. We cannot afford not to.

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1 hour ago, Chris Taylor said:

Does anybody have any of the historical figures for Premier Sports when the Championship was on around 06/07?

I'm not sure about 2006/07 but based upon the RFL Annual Reports for 2011 & 2012, it looks to be around 150K per year (give or take as exact figures for what BBC paid for Challenge Cup & Internationals are not available)

Now arguably it may have been more, I'm not sure whether the RFL paid any of the Premier fee straight to Championship clubs as the figures they quote is simply what they kept as revenue.

Considering that Premier took on all the costs for broadcasting, the overall deal would have been worth more.

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A pricing comparison - I've been to two ice hockey games in the last 10 years. Just had an email offering streaming of the 4 semi-final games, plus the 3 game final series, for £49. Individual games are £13 (same as the regular season price). No TV contract for British ice hockey (although Premier/Freesports have NHL, Russian & Swedish leagues) so the only way to watch any domestic game at the moment is by paying for streaming. That's a good bit higher than OurLeague. I suspect the total number of fans of Championship RL is probably higher than Elite League Ice hockey in a normal season.

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3 hours ago, Scubby said:

Exactly, Our League have actually done the hard work to get it to this point. They now need a V2 that is a complete viewer experience platform. If they can negotiate odd SL games going on there with permission from Sky (plus full replays) you might be onto something. The whole games needs to pull together on this.

If you think what would be a worthwhile package to encourage decent numbers paying a tenner a month (it really can't be much more than people pay for Netflix, Prime or Disney+ - that is the value of quality online TV) - then a handful of Championship games each weekend, plus Challenge Cup, plus maybe one SL game per month, plus the podcast style stuff they are doing - that may be a decent package.

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1 hour ago, Yakstorm said:

I'm not sure about 2006/07 but based upon the RFL Annual Reports for 2011 & 2012, it looks to be around 150K per year (give or take as exact figures for what BBC paid for Challenge Cup & Internationals are not available)

Now arguably it may have been more, I'm not sure whether the RFL paid any of the Premier fee straight to Championship clubs as the figures they quote is simply what they kept as revenue.

Considering that Premier took on all the costs for broadcasting, the overall deal would have been worth more.

I think part of the deal with Premier was also that Clubs could sign up Premier subscribers and get a payment for each sub directly. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

If you think what would be a worthwhile package to encourage decent numbers paying a tenner a month (it really can't be much more than people pay for Netflix, Prime or Disney+ - that is the value of quality online TV) - then a handful of Championship games each weekend, plus Challenge Cup, plus maybe one SL game per month, plus the podcast style stuff they are doing - that may be a decent package.

Yes, and I think the intent is important too. Honestly, Our League stuck at it when it was #### and have done the hard work. That MVP has proven it can get sign ups and stream matches in decent quality to 1000s of viewers. The ambition has to be to take it to the next level. I have given it the swerve this year because of my early experiences but they are ironing things out it sounds.

League has to look at investing its way forward. When I found out RL Cares was being done properly I chipped in. If an Our League platform was taken to the next level (serious next level) I would part with £100+ per year to support the game as much as anything else. Also, knowing that the really valuable unique content was in one place and delivering a quality experience. Until you do the latter you cannot expand to ex-pat and overseas subscriptions.

 

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13 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yes, and I think the intent is important too. Honestly, Our League stuck at it when it was #### and have done the hard work. That MVP has proven it can get sign ups and stream matches in decent quality to 1000s of viewers. The ambition has to be to take it to the next level. I have given it the swerve this year because of my early experiences but they are ironing things out it sounds.

League has to look at investing its way forward. When I found out RL Cares was being done properly I chipped in. If an Our League platform was taken to the next level (serious next level) I would part with £100+ per year to support the game as much as anything else. Also, knowing that the really valuable unique content was in one place and delivering a quality experience. Until you do the latter you cannot expand to ex-pat and overseas subscriptions.

 

it becomes a "go to" then as well.. 

at the moment if i have a spare 30 minutes before bed etc I'll have a quick look at what i have stored on netflix, or I player etc it can become the thing you go "i'll just see what they have put on"/"i'll have a look at some archive stuff" just to kill some time (30 minute shows are great for this sort of thing).. and if they can crack that type of thing people will do it.

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