RP London Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: 1. Of course the cap was London weighted. Same as any organisation of that era paid a London weighting on salaries. Thinking that was 'enough' was utter lunacy though. How on earth could the London team be expected to attract the same players with zero community-level infrastructure around it, as teams from the North?? The cap extension needed to be MUCH more to attract players from small, inward-looking, narrow minded Northern communities to move to uproot and play in London. 2. Nowhere did I say that expansion teams should be able to "spend what they like". selective quoting is unfair and can make you look very stupid.. 1. I said in the next paragraph that you snipped out "I dont disagree (and you would know this from my other posts) that more help should be given... from the system and the clubs to expansion teams and it doesnt need to be much but they do need a leg up." 2. I never said you did... the key being the first word in the sentence "IF" Cap dispensation isnt everything though as you would know from other posts and threads on this.. in the early 00s there was huge growth in junior involvement due to the DO network in London. That is with only the London Weighting in the Cap.. take the DOs away and it started to unravel. A very strong base around London can grow not with a strong first team but with this DO network in place.. a lot less money for a lot more growth. The highlight of "spend on the first team" or "drop the first team into the top flight" is a sticking plaster.. Without the development (which is what is happening now) the rest is fluff and leads to a short term team.. what we need is not pins in maps but genuine growth and genuine expansion. IMHO because of the change in emphasis to the way they are looking at it now, as long as no artificial draw bridges are pulled up, I genuinely believe the game will look very different in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 3 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Friday nights - against teams from a few miles away. Getting from Warrington to Salford, or Warrington to Wigan, or Wakefield to Leeds, or Leeds to Huddersfield, or Castleford to Wakefield is not exactly difficult. If you can tell me of a single league which has its teams closer together, I would love to hear about it. And there is 1 game on a Thursday night. I've always said that common sense, especially for Thursday evenings, would be Yorkshire v Yorkshire and Lancashire v Lancashire. Unfortunately we have a governing body that saw fit to send Hull all the way to Widnes 3 away games out of 4 on Thursday nights. It's idiotic decisions like that that infuriate fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 4 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Friday nights - against teams from a few miles away. Getting from Warrington to Salford, or Warrington to Wigan, or Wakefield to Leeds, or Leeds to Huddersfield, or Castleford to Wakefield is not exactly difficult. If you can tell me of a single league which has its teams closer together, I would love to hear about it. And there is 1 game on a Thursday night. Have a look at the fixture list. All those Friday night games are "a few miles away" ? "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Karen said: I've always said that common sense, especially for Thursday evenings, would be Yorkshire v Yorkshire and Lancashire v Lancashire. That would certainly make sense . The League is incredibly local compared to any other sports League I know of. They should maximise that advantage with regard to fixture scheduling. That way they could maintain semi-decent crowds while having a game on Thursday nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Griff said: Have a look at the fixture list. All those Friday night games are "a few miles away" ? If you look hard enough, and maintain a negative-enough mindset, you will eventually find a barrier to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 45 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: If you look hard enough, and maintain a negative-enough mindset, you will eventually find a barrier to complain about. That's rich ! I'm not complaining. I'm saying that the problem that you're complaining about, in your negative way, doesn't exist. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 On 27/04/2021 at 16:36, RP London said: i was rather hoping we could keep digging into why on earth someone would think it were true... we may then actually learn how Donald Trump got elected, how people honestly think that Covid is fake and who shot JR! People think Covid is fake as theres lots of bull around it. This nonesense then provides evidence to say covid is fake. The fact You tube has banned people talking about covid is an example of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Griff said: That's rich ! I'm not complaining. I'm saying that the problem that you're complaining about, in your negative way, doesn't exist. Right - so the clubs are building the League in order to maximise TV revenue then? (The problem I complained about). Great..... I see that our of the 12 teams, we have 5 from a small area between Manchester and Liverpool and another 6 from West Yorkshire/Humberside. Sounds like a good spread - likely to really tap into the viewing public. Sky must pay an absolute fortune for that! Well done to the SuperLeague for looking at the bigger picture, and not just accepting the nearest applicant from yet another bleak, depressed, northern town that no one has heard of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Right - so the clubs are building the League in order to maximise TV revenue then? (The problem I complained about). Great..... I see that our of the 12 teams, we have 5 from a small area between Manchester and Liverpool and another 6 from West Yorkshire/Humberside. Sounds like a good spread - likely to really tap into the viewing public. Sky must pay an absolute fortune for that! Well done to the SuperLeague for looking at the bigger picture, and not just accepting the nearest applicant from yet another bleak, depressed, northern town that no one has heard of! So what do you advise ? Setting up clubs in Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Glasgow and Milan ? "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 20 minutes ago, Griff said: So what do you advise ? Setting up clubs in Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Glasgow and Milan ? No. Supporting Toronto with proper funding. When they failed to do that, at least accept Toulouse (on equal terms) rather than a 2nd Wigan club. When London were in.... Give them a realistic cap exemption if they can demonstrate income. Stuff like that. Pretty basic really, but it would need the League to WANT to grow beyond these depressed northern towns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 13 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: No. Supporting Toronto with proper funding. When they failed to do that, at least accept Toulouse (on equal terms) rather than a 2nd Wigan club. When London were in.... Give them a realistic cap exemption if they can demonstrate income. Stuff like that. Pretty basic really, but it would need the League to WANT to grow beyond these depressed northern towns. London didn’t spend up to the current cap when they were in Superleague Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Johnoco said: Being northern is not a barrier to success. The world’s biggest band were very northern, as is the countries biggest and longest running soap. The problem is one of inclusiveness and not putting people off from being part of it. RL is not northern enough to warrant the term ‘northern’ . All the points like local rivalry and passionate fans are also found in other sports but they have them in most places in the country. Very true. I did not mean that the fact that the game is from the North is a barrier to success. The sport definitely (as you say) has a problem with inclusiveness though. I think that partly explains the aging fan base, as younger people don't really identify with the sport. Inclusiveness is definitely not a word that anyone would attach to the majority of towns where Rugby League is prominent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, The Frying Scotsman said: No. Supporting Toronto with proper funding. When they failed to do that, at least accept Toulouse (on equal terms) rather than a 2nd Wigan club. When London were in.... Give them a realistic cap exemption if they can demonstrate income. Stuff like that. Pretty basic really, but it would need the League to WANT to grow beyond these depressed northern towns. The time was not right for Toulouse to be promoted. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 15 hours ago, Griff said: Kristen, wasn't it ? Bing Crosby`s daughter. Pa-rum-pum-pum-pum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 15 hours ago, RP London said: Please tell me that you do understand the reasoning behind this is not because it has been designed as such... we have tried Wales, we have tried Paris, Catalans, London, Sheffield, Workington, Toronto etc we've tried chucking teams in the top level and it doesnt work that often. However, start to bring them through (which is the tactic being used at the moment) the league system and teams like Coventry and Newcastle are starting to build sustainable long term clubs rather than just teams. Yes, I am sure everyone would like to break out of being solely a game based around the m62 corridor but its not that easy and it will take time, but steps are being taken... As you can see by other posts i've made i blame the RFL for not helping more and more but those steps are being take now, they could do more of course, and they are trying to change some of this but it CANNOT happen overnight, and whining about history doesnt help [and i'm a history graduate] learning from it does. And it was a massive success in Toronto with crowds consistently better than most super League clubs despite only being in the championship. Who knows how high crowds would have got in super League if the turkeys hadn't voted against Christmas and jealously got shot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 8 hours ago, yipyee said: People think Covid is fake as theres lots of bull around it. This nonesense then provides evidence to say covid is fake. The fact You tube has banned people talking about covid is an example of this Anyone who thinks that covid is fake should take a quick look at the photos of thousands of dead bodies burning right now in India where they're struggling to find space to burn bodies and the crowds of crying families in the street outside hospitals that are literally full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Johnoco said: The way I meant inclusivity was not anything other than not wanting outsiders (of any description) involved in RL. Obviously this is not all RL fans but it is a significant amount and I think some of them are in the positions in order to make those decisions that suit them. For all the talk of the north, any club that might come along had better be prepared to be treated with suspicion at best and hostility at worst. Even if this club was 20 miles away, it would be moaned about as a drain on resources and they should 'look after the heartlands first'. We see it every time. Aye.... agree with most of this. Rugby league has a list of lost opportunities. Then of course there are those who just do not want any small former industrial town's rugby club sharing the trough at the top table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Johnoco said: The way I meant inclusivity was not anything other than not wanting outsiders (of any description) involved in RL. Obviously this is not all RL fans but it is a significant amount and I think some of them are in the positions in order to make those decisions that suit them. I've no objection to "outsiders" (whatever that means) getting involved in Rugby League. However, I'm getting a bit fed up with "outsiders" not getting involved when a new club is set up on their doorstep. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, Johnoco said: They did get involved with Toronto. Toronto was an absolute basket case and rejecting them may probably have been the best decision given the circumstances....but still a missed opportunity. They were a badly run club. But for better managent and a slice of the big pie - which morally at least they were due, RL could have been growing much deeper roots in Canada now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, Robin Evans said: Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, Johnoco said: That's almost irrelevant though. People who had never heard of RL turned up - and became fans. That was my point. It was a cracking if expensive experience. Glad I went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 5 hours ago, Johnoco said: They did get involved with Toronto. Aye, but the club still couldn't make it pay. Or, at least, lose an acceptable amount. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Johnoco said: Neither could most RL clubs without financial and other help. How many went bust ? One ? "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 16 hours ago, Johnoco said: How many would have gone bust without numerous bail outs and/or player loans etc? Pretty much all of them. If every club was made as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit, we'd have virtually no clubs now. They were welcomed. They were given concessions. They asked for more concessions. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Griff said: They were welcomed. They were given concessions. They asked for more concessions. Welcomed? A fairly flexible definition you are applying. At the risk of de-railment, and its been debated for over 400 pages on one thread, Toronto were hamstrung and weren't treated equally. Under the circumstances they were in, failure was hardly surprising and imo inevitable. Again, under those same circumstances, rejecting Livolsi's half ar sed submission was probably the correct one at the time. BUT, thousands of new fans took to the game. Lord knows how far that interest would have spread if they were actually supported and given a slice of the pie. The complete screw up that was twp means those fans missed out and another opportunity gone. I felt for those fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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