Alleged racism

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Red Willow said:

why bring race, colour etc into this at all. Surely the rest of the phrase is abusive enough? 

Bingo.

You only hurl insults if you think they're insulting.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Yeah I listened to that and couldn't help thinking Carney was speaking about a 'policy' that certainly doesn't formally exist and if it did would be extremely controversial at best, very racist at worst. I don't have any written quotes to add to validate this, but from memory when Wane has been asked about this in the past he more talks about players that have come through the 'system' in England being his priority, rather than a player's heritage. I think Wane does need to set his position out clearly on this though, because he's very close to getting some accusations thrown his way too. 

Exactly, I know his comments were about Aussie heritage players, but really for someone who will be at front and centre of the biggest stage in the game this year I agree he needs to clarify his words frankly and choose them more carefully going forwards. 

[EagleEyePie]

11 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Well Lam did say that, but I wouldn't expect him to say otherwise............it may be the real reason but it also seemed quite a coincidence to me. Certainly he'd have been aware of the accusation and perhaps he thought he'd keep Clubb out the firing line for everyone's best interests

I think you're overestimating ten minute Tony's playing exploits. He'd already played 15 minutes which is a good stint for him. 3 carries and 15 tackles is basically Clubb's usual workload in a match, and only playing 1 spell is normal too. The fact that he didn't come into the field at the end of the game is the more interesting thing. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

 

2 hours ago, barnyia said:

Ok thanks. Nationality is ok then? 

You ask a fair question, Barnyia. In short, no it is absolutely not ok - if a country is mentioned as a slur to somebody then that is being xenophobic. As @Tommygilf articulated perfectly however, this (alleged) case wouldn't be considered in that way because of the incorrect and pejorative context it was said, lends itself more to racism. 

[Eddie]

No idea what was said or why, but I’m surprised that someone would use the term Polynesian in the heat of the moment during a rugby match. 

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, EagleEyePie said:

I think you're overestimating ten minute Tony's playing exploits. He'd already played 15 minutes which is a good stint for him. 3 carries and 15 tackles is basically Clubb's usual workload in a match, and only playing 1 spell is normal too. The fact that he didn't come into the field at the end of the game is the more interesting thing. 

I don’t necessarily agree. I would imagine that the referee/an official made the coaches aware of the accusation and Wigan would have told Clubb to not go out there because there’s bound to be investigations and the last thing he/Wigan/Hull/Savelio/Rugby League needed was a confrontation or anything else happening/being said post match. 

[MrPosh]

12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

No idea what was said or why, but I’m surprised that someone would use the term Polynesian in the heat of the moment during a rugby match. 

If you can use words of two syllables in the heat of the match, let alone something like Polynesian, then you're not trying hard enough.

Either way, because of his age, I suspect this is the last we'll see of Clubb. If he did say it, then I hope that's the case.

[John Drake]

Various posts either edited or removed.

Firstly, please do not copy and paste the actual Tweet from Andre Savelio containing the alleged slur - a link to the tweet will suffice, so anyone who wants to view it can do, but the content itself breaks the T&Cs of this forum and doesn't need to be republished on here over and over.

Secondly, do not use this as an opportunity to bypass our swear filter by replacing one letter of an offensive word with an asterisk. Just don't use the word at all on here.

Thirdly, don't start calling each other racist, or woke, or snowflake, or any of that kind of pathetic yah-boo. Make your point without adding insults of your own.

Thank you.

[DavidM]

2 hours ago, EagleEyePie said:

Pretty sure Polynesian is an ethnicity, so yes, it's racist. Like putting Asian or black in front of that word. Savelio is from New Zealand and British, so that's his nationality.

Yes, there are cases where people will use Aussie, or pommy, or Kiwi or even French before an insult and get away with it - it's a double standard that some nationalities can be fair game while others aren't, but that's not really the issue in this case.

Yeh I was thinking about what the English players must get in Oz down the years !

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, MrPosh said:

If you can use words of two syllables in the heat of the match, let alone something like Polynesian, then you're not trying hard enough.

Either way, because of his age, I suspect this is the last we'll see of Clubb. If he did say it, then I hope that's the case.

Would you be as bothered if during an NRL game someone called an English player an English xxxx, or Pommy xxxx?  I don’t think what was alleged to have been said is ok btw, if it was said, but I just wondered if you’d feel the same if something said it about an English player. 
 

Edited to remove my asterisked swearing per John’s request. 

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, egm said:

yes, calling someone a stupid polynesian **** is racist. just like calling someone a black ****. John Terry was banned for a reason

Ha so calling someone by their nationality is racist?  How are we supposed to treat barsteward Australians then?

[Hela Wigmen]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Would you be as bothered if during an NRL game someone called an English player an English xxxx, or Pommy xxxx?  I don’t think what was alleged to have been said is ok btw, if it was said, but I just wondered if you’d feel the same if something said it about an English player. 
 

Edited to remove my asterisked swearing per John’s request. 

When said as an insult then no, it’s not okay. 

[MrPosh]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Would you be as bothered if during an NRL game someone called an English player an English xxxx, or Pommy xxxx?  I don’t think what was alleged to have been said is ok btw, if it was said, but I just wondered if you’d feel the same if something said it about an English player. 
 

Edited to remove my asterisked swearing per John’s request. 

I can't say I'd like it, but the English have never been subjugated or victimised in the way others have (I appreciate the Daily Telegraph will currently tell you otherwise).

Therefore, the use of English as part of an insult doesn't have a negative historical context (perhaps it should, for a whole other reason, but that's another thing) and so is probably less offensive.

[Maximus Decimus]

My first reaction to it was that it must have come from an Australian player. Polynesian is a bit of a weird phrase to use over here, but then I suppose if you play RL you'd be more aware of the term.

If it is true, then Clubb is guilty of extreme levels of stupidity. In one foul swoop he will have destroyed his career and reputation. 

[OriginalMrC]

I think the fact that people don't understand what racism is means we have some way to go unfortunately. Tribal loyalty also shouldn't come into. If the alleged incident is true then I'm not sure how anyone can defend it 

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

When said as an insult then no, it’s not okay. 

Would it bother you though, would you want that player banned and vilified? 

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, MrPosh said:

I can't say I'd like it, but the English have never been subjugated or victimised in the way others have (I appreciate the Daily Telegraph will currently tell you otherwise).

Therefore, the use of English as part of an insult doesn't have a negative historical context (perhaps it should, for a whole other reason, but that's another thing) and so is probably less offensive.

I’ve been racially abused a number of times, in England and abroad. It’s never bothered me in the slightest, as it says more about the person saying it than it does me, but I can understand why many people find it so upsetting and agreed it has no place on the rugby pitch. No idea whether this incident can be proved or disproved though, probably not. 

[Old Frightful]

It's all Dr Doolittle's fault.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Would you be as bothered if during an NRL game someone called an English player an English xxxx, or Pommy xxxx?  I don’t think what was alleged to have been said is ok btw, if it was said, but I just wondered if you’d feel the same if something said it about an English player. 
 

Edited to remove my asterisked swearing per John’s request. 

I think it's been quite clearly explained why this is not the same - but yes a slur using a person's country is still xenophobia. Whether you personally would mind it or not isn't really the point here. 

[Maximus Decimus]

1 minute ago, MrPosh said:

I can't say I'd like it, but the English have never been subjugated or victimised in the way others have (I appreciate the Daily Telegraph will currently tell you otherwise).

Therefore, the use of English as part of an insult doesn't have a negative historical context (perhaps it should, for a whole other reason, but that's another thing) and so is probably less offensive.

Victimisation is in the eye of the beholder. In my opinion, an insult is less about the words used than the context and intent.

I was once in a pub In Northern Ireland, and overheard some guys taking about me saying something along the lines of shutting that English guy up. 

The idea that British people have historically been the oppressors etc funnily enough wasn't much consolation. 

[Rupert Prince]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Would you be as bothered if during an NRL game someone called an English player an English xxxx, or Pommy xxxx?  I don’t think what was alleged to have been said is ok btw, if it was said, but I just wondered if you’d feel the same if something said it about an English player. 
 

Edited to remove my asterisked swearing per John’s request. 

Many years ago a Castleford fan in front of me called the Wigan players "Wigan bxxxxxds".  I remonstrated politely and he turned and attempted to nut me.   I confess that that and Hepworths stiff arm on Tyrer has left me with a certain feeling with Cas ... but it was a long time ago and I have a friend nearby who is a Cas fan.

Was the erudite Cas fan within his rights.  Could he have been all right to have said the same thing to Mal Meningas Australian team mates?

[Maximus Decimus]

5 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

I think the fact that people don't understand what racism is means we have some way to go unfortunately. Tribal loyalty also shouldn't come into. If the alleged incident is true then I'm not sure how anyone can defend it 

To be fair to those people, I think they're thinking that Polynesian is akin to the way nationalities are made fun of, much like Pommy b*****d in Australia. When in fact, it has clear racial connotations especially down under. 

[Hela Wigmen]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Would it bother you though, would you want that player banned and vilified? 

It has nothing to do with me. Or you. Or our opinions. This is a serious accusation and should be treated as such. Polynesians are a minority in this country and what has been alleged just isn’t acceptable here anymore, whether people agree with that or not. Arguing the semantics around it and whether it’s actually racist or not misses the point altogether. It’s also been said at a time when there’s heightened sensitivity around racism and discrimination and just before a pretty comprehensive social media blackout from some of the biggest names in sport on the planet. 

[Rupert Prince]

3 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Victimisation is in the eye of the beholder. In my opinion, an insult is less about the words used than the context and intent.

I was once in a pub In Northern Ireland, and overheard some guys taking about me saying something along the lines of shutting that English guy up. 

The idea that British people have historically been the oppressors etc funnily enough wasn't much consolation. 

Thinking about knee capping you is one thing, but spitting out (allegedly!) something not nice is a bit different.

[Clogiron]

1 hour ago, Futtocks said:

I had Radio 4 on this morning, and was surprised to hear RL mentioned at all in the sports report, let alone second item after the Football... until I remembered Savelio's allegation.

It was second item on the BBC World Service sports news last night too, can't remember the last time if ever RL was mentioned on there. It was along the lines of just hours after joining the boycott of social media by sport's and after the players had stood against racism at the start of the match............... Funny that they didn't mention the result of the game, I think a agenda was being met, but it's the stupidity of our game in giving such people the opportunity to put the boot in that annoys me, if proven a lifetime ban is the only way to claw back some dignity.