8 Games

[Tommygilf]

Just now, bobbruce said:

How long does it take to get back to Wigan from Leeds. 

As long as it takes to come off Zoom?

[JohnM]

33 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

How long does it take to get back to Wigan from Leeds. 

In current traffic conditions and at the legal speed limits, one hour and seven minutes.  Hope that helps. Shouldn't holiday travel  questions be on AOB?

[Barca Mum]

Why are Wigan letting him train with the club during his ban I thought once you were banned you shouldn't have any interaction with your place of employment? Surely if he wants to be fit for his return he should train on his own.

[Man of Kent]

Looks like Clubb got the bare minimum to my eye.  

That said, it’s good that we have a system where a player can report these allegations immediately on the field and that they are dealt with openly, transparently and promptly. Not sure we see that in all sports. 

[JohnM]

59 minutes ago, Barca Mum said:

Why are Wigan letting him train with the club during his ban I thought once you were banned you shouldn't have any interaction with your place of employment? Surely if he wants to be fit for his return he should train on his own.

Wasn't he suspended for 8 games? Where does it say he can't train? Is it engraved on the handle of your pitchfork? 

[LeeF]

1 hour ago, Barca Mum said:

Why are Wigan letting him train with the club during his ban I thought once you were banned you shouldn't have any interaction with your place of employment? Surely if he wants to be fit for his return he should train on his own.

You thought incorrectly

[RigbyLuger]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm really stunned that the Wigan statement didn't have anything from Clubb in it.

Maybe he can do as Joel Tomkins and George Flanagan have done, and release his own on social media.

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Looks like Clubb got the bare minimum to my eye.  

That said, it’s good that we have a system where a player can report these allegations immediately on the field and that they are dealt with openly, transparently and promptly. Not sure we see that in all sports. 

yes as I said in an earlier contribution I think that the sport have handled this well. Of course people have differing opinions about whether the punishment is appropriate, but the the fact a player is ready to raise or flag an issue at the earliest opportunity says something about the clear messaging and supportive approach that he expected from colleagues and other team players, his club and the administrators of the sport.

As you say it was immediately dealt with in a transparent manner with clear communicating as to why the punishment level.

[JohnM]

For those of you who think that the punishment does not fit the crime, why not start a change.org petition? 

[Barca Mum]

 

1 hour ago, LeeF said:

You thought incorrectly

Thanks for the correction 

[BrisbaneRhino]

The ban seems about right to me.  That's a pretty significant penalty in terms of his income this year.

As an aside, comparisons to people in "normal' jobs are daft.  If someone is sacked for using a racist term at work, most people are able to go and get a similar job elsewhere. While not always true, its not the same as having your name published everywhere (which surely is part of the "punishment" in this sort of case?). If Wigan did sack Clubb, there's no way any other club would touch him (at least in the short term).

 

[Davo5]

12 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Just checking how you view bandwagons and when its appropriate to get on and off them.

40 + Posts on this thread suggests that not only are you on the bandwagon,you also built it.

[gingerjon]

12 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I'm on no bandwagon here, except the vindicated position one I suppose.

Ah okay, so you weren't on a bandwagon, just posturing an extreme response. I assume you have now changed that position?

Christ, if fewer than 20 individual accounts on a niche messageboard is a bandwagon then the bar has been properly lowered.

[gingerjon]

3 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

As an aside, comparisons to people in "normal' jobs are daft.  If someone is sacked for using a racist term at work, most people are able to go and get a similar job elsewhere. While not always true, its not the same as having your name published everywhere (which surely is part of the "punishment" in this sort of case?). If Wigan did sack Clubb, there's no way any other club would touch him (at least in the short term).

All the more reason to make sure you avoid offering out racist comments then, I'd have thought.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

40 + Posts on this thread suggests that not only are you on the bandwagon,you also built it.

Actively challenging misconceptions isn't easy, though if posts on a niche subset of a subset of the Internet on an issue I think is deeply important and that have virtually all been vindicated by the verdict of the tribunal, guilty as charged.

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Christ, if fewer than 20 individual accounts on a niche messageboard is a bandwagon then the bar has been properly lowered.

I just think its a nice deflection method

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I just think its a nice deflection method

There is a decent amount of criticism of those who are disgusted by the racism. We have heard claims of hysteria, virtue signalling, hand-wringing, North Korean-like etc. 

It's an odd situation but I'm perfectly happy to be lumped into that tbh.

[whatmichaelsays]

6 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

The ban seems about right to me.  That's a pretty significant penalty in terms of his income this year.

As an aside, comparisons to people in "normal' jobs are daft.  If someone is sacked for using a racist term at work, most people are able to go and get a similar job elsewhere. While not always true, its not the same as having your name published everywhere (which surely is part of the "punishment" in this sort of case?). If Wigan did sack Clubb, there's no way any other club would touch him (at least in the short term).

 

I'm not sure I'd go with the second part of your point to be honest. It seems to stray into the sort of territory that suggests truck or taxi drivers shouldn't get driving bans because they'd struggle to find other work. With certain roles come certain responsibilities. 

That said, I'm finding it too difficult to get wound up by the eight games Clubb recieved. Eight games is a significant ban and although there's an argument it could and perhaps should be longer, what does a longer ban achieve in the long run? Clubb knows he has done wrong and the difference between an eight game ban and a 10/12/20/life ban doesn't stop the next incident from happening - and that's what this should really be about, over and above dealing with Tony Clubb. My personal view / hope was that along with a ban (I thought 10 games would be about right), Clubb is required to undertake education and training to learn to curb those "heat of the moment" outbursts or, at the very least, learn not to bring race into it. 

These sorts of incidents, whether they're racism, homophobia or excessive aggression on the field, or sexism, alcoholism, drug use, domestic violence or other criminal activity off the field, aren't problems that the sport can necessarily "suspend and fine" it's way out of. It's something the needs investment in better education and player welfare. 

[Damien]

30 minutes ago, Dave T said:

There is a decent amount of criticism of those who are disgusted by the racism. We have heard claims of hysteria, virtue signalling, hand-wringing, North Korean-like etc. 

It's an odd situation but I'm perfectly happy to be lumped into that tbh.

I don't think its been that bad and much of the debate has been quite good. I think probably 90% of posters are singing off pretty similar hymn sheets in that the ban is about right, maybe give or take a couple of games. For some whatever action was taken was never going to be enough and we have seen this by whatever has happened or come to light they still want more or something else should have been done. Others don't particularly think the words were offensive, which I personally think is irrelevant if they caused distress to Savelio and the wider world. Two quite extreme perspectives that are never going to come together, I've simply bowed out the last couple of pages as things have soured and it has turned into just people repeating themselves.

[Dave T]

Just now, Damien said:

I don't think its been that bad and much of the debate has been quite good. I think probably 90% of posters are singing off pretty similar hymn sheets in that the ban is about right, maybe give or take a couple of games. For some whatever action was taken was never going to be enough and we have seen this by whatever has happened or come to light they still want more or something else should have been done. Others don't particularly think the words were offensive, which I personally think is irrelevant if they caused distress to Savelio and the wider world. Two quite extreme perspectives that are never going to come together, I've simply bowed out the last couple of pages as things have soured and it has turned into just people repeating themselves.

Don't forget all the deleted posts

To be fair, as always this board is one of the most moderate around. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Don't forget all the deleted posts

To be fair, as always this board is one of the most moderate around. 

Oh yes, I forgot and missed some of those 

[Just Browny]

6 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

If Wigan did sack Clubb, there's no way any other club would touch him (at least in the short term).

 

Really? I feel like he would be checking out that guided busway in no time.

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

All the more reason to make sure you avoid offering out racist comments then, I'd have thought.

That was my thoughts - seems rather self evident really. An RL player gets to do a lot that other jobs can't just as much, swings and roundabouts.

[Kayakman]

If someone calls a Canadian a 'Canuck' is that racist?

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

If someone calls a Canadian a 'Canuck' is that racist?

Almost certainly not.