Samoa coaching job

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, langpark said:

Which games specifically? 

Fiji 2016 (when Fiji had half a side), Scotland 2017 (embarrassing), PNG 2019 (when they were pathetic)

At that 2017 RLWC you could see quite a few players who had hit the pies. Pritchard, Papalii, Leilua and Paulo the obvious high profile ones.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Scubby

[langpark]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Fiji 2016 (when Fiji had half a side), Scotland 2017 (embarrassing), PNG 2019 (when they were pathetic)

At that 2017 RLWC you could see quite a few players who had hit the pies. Pritchard, Papalii, Leilua and Paulo the obvious high profile ones.

Oh dear, I see this Samoa myth is far worse than I first thought.  Do people wear rose-coloured glasses when discussing Samoa?  Do people subconsciously associate them with Tonga perhaps?  As for the 3 matches you mention;

1) To refresh your memory, I suggest you take a look at the team sheets from the Samoa vs Fiji match in 2016.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Samoa_vs._Fiji_rugby_league_test_match

Neither team stands out on paper, and Samoa really only had one "household" NRL name in their team:  Sam Kasiano.

Fiji are NOT in the category of easy-beats and the following year defeated NZ and made it to the top 4 of the World Cup.  Also, Samoa lost the game 20-18, hardly a flogging. 

2) Scotland 2017, they didn't actually lose to Scotland.

3) PNG 2019?  What match might you be referring to there?  As far as I can see, Samoa won that game 24-6.  https://www.nrl.com/draw/internationals/2019/round-1/samoa-v-papua-new-guinea/

Fact-checking is not your strong point I see.

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, langpark said:

Oh dear, I see this Samoa myth is far worse than I first thought.  Do people wear rose-coloured glasses when discussing Samoa?  Do people subconsciously associate them with Tonga perhaps?  As for the 3 matches you mention;

1) To refresh your memory, I suggest you take a look at the team sheets from the Samoa vs Fiji match in 2016.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Samoa_vs._Fiji_rugby_league_test_match

Neither team stands out on paper, and Samoa really only had one "household" NRL name in their team:  Sam Kasiano.

Fiji are NOT in the category of easy-beats and the following year defeated NZ and made it to the top 4 of the World Cup.  Also, Samoa lost the game 20-18, hardly a flogging. 

2) Scotland 2017, they didn't actually lose to Scotland.

3) PNG 2019?  What match might you be referring to there?  As far as I can see, Samoa won that game 24-6.  https://www.nrl.com/draw/internationals/2019/round-1/samoa-v-papua-new-guinea/

Fact-checking is not your strong point I see.

I meant when they shipped 40+ in 2019. Was it Fiji if it wasn't PNG then? I stand by the other 2 pathetic displays plus the roll over 46-0 to Australia where they hardly completed a set. 

[B rad]

Great podcast by Willie Mason

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/forget-what-papers-are-saying-heres-who-really-needs/id1499743238?i=1000520424659

[B rad]

6 hours ago, langpark said:

Oh dear, I see this Samoa myth is far worse than I first thought.  Do people wear rose-coloured glasses when discussing Samoa?  Do people subconsciously associate them with Tonga perhaps?  As for the 3 matches you mention;

1) To refresh your memory, I suggest you take a look at the team sheets from the Samoa vs Fiji match in 2016.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Samoa_vs._Fiji_rugby_league_test_match

Neither team stands out on paper, and Samoa really only had one "household" NRL name in their team:  Sam Kasiano.

Fiji are NOT in the category of easy-beats and the following year defeated NZ and made it to the top 4 of the World Cup.  Also, Samoa lost the game 20-18, hardly a flogging. 

2) Scotland 2017, they didn't actually lose to Scotland.

3) PNG 2019?  What match might you be referring to there?  As far as I can see, Samoa won that game 24-6.  https://www.nrl.com/draw/internationals/2019/round-1/samoa-v-papua-new-guinea/

Fact-checking is not your strong point I see.

He has the wrong Fijian game. Its 2019 Oceanic cup.

Its actually really good to watch from a Fijian point of view. They throw the ball around, its very exciting. Pathetic from Samoa though. 

[Yakstorm]

For me, the fact that certain players have said that they won't play for Parish, others claim he doesn't support them connecting with their culture when in camp and that the likes of the NZRL are reluctant to organise Tests against Samoa whilst he is preparing the squad, I feel is sufficient for a proper review of the Toa Samoa coaching team.

Samoa, like Tonga & Fiji, has no money, so the only thing they can truely offer a top player is an ability for players to reconnect with their culture and heritage. Having a middle aged white man as coach who shows no interest in those 'distractions', as he has referred to them, is a bit of a red flag to me.

Now if Parish was getting the results on the field, you'd argue that doesn't matter, but when compared to Fiji, Tonga and even PNG, Samoa has gone backwards in recent years.

Of the last 10 matches, Samoa has won one, despite having more NRL and SL eligible players than the other Pacific nations (Samoa has 86 in the NRL alone, for context, Queensland has 84) and arguably having a better mix of eligible players.

Now maybe some of these expectations of onfield performance are unrealistic and maybe 2014 was their natural peak, when they pushed NZ and England all the way and were very competitive against Australia.

Even if this is the case, IMO I still don't think Parish is the right coach for Samoa. There are just too many negative noises.

[langpark]

10 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

Of the last 10 matches, Samoa has won one, despite having more NRL and SL eligible players than the other Pacific nations (Samoa has 86 in the NRL alone, for context, Queensland has 84) and arguably having a better mix of eligible players.

Wrong again. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa_national_rugby_league_team_results

In their last 10 matches they have had:

2 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses. Three of which were against the big 3 (Aus, NZ, England) and another three against Tonga.

Again, for the most part they have been a team of no-namers. I think people are confusing the number of Samoa-eligible players with how many actually choose Samoa when push comes to shove. And the idea that SBW (who never once seriously considered playing for Samoa during his career) could suddenly be the man to cause mass defections to Samoa is just ridiculous. 

[B rad]

9 hours ago, langpark said:

Wrong again. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa_national_rugby_league_team_results

In their last 10 matches they have had:

2 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses. Three of which were against the big 3 (Aus, NZ, England) and another three against Tonga.

Again, for the most part they have been a team of no-namers. I think people are confusing the number of Samoa-eligible players with how many actually choose Samoa when push comes to shove. And the idea that SBW (who never once seriously considered playing for Samoa during his career) could suddenly be the man to cause mass defections to Samoa is just ridiculous. 

So in 2016 they beat Tonga, this was before Tonga had all those top tier players become available. They were going quite well at that point. In 2015 they almost beat England and New Zealand while under Parish. They also went fairly well in the 2017 mid season test against England. They fielded a fairly strong team. The RLWC that same year is where they started their decline. 

 

They didn't win a game and got through the to the semis on a points for and against draw with Scotland. Again they had a fairly decent team but many players ended the tournament overweight and played well below their potential. Willie Mason in his podcast claims Roger Tuivasa Sheck would have played for Samoa that year except for Parish been coach. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/forget-what-papers-are-saying-heres-who-really-needs/id1499743238?i=1000520424659

 

Since then they beat a PNG team in the midseason test which contained a very young Xaavier Coates who probably hadn't played A-grade at that time, James Segeyaro and Rhyse Martin as the only NRL players in their starting 13 with Kurt Baptise on the bench. Their entire team was NRL A-graders with possibly the exception of James Gavet who I cant quite remember. When they were destroyed by Fiji 44 - 18 that same year there was 8 Fijian players who I recognize as either A-grade NRL/Super League players. The rest are mostly from lower grades with one from the Fijian competition. Samoa's entire side with maybe the exception of again James Gavet and Marion Seve are NRL regulars some having played State of Origin and Martin Taupau who is an ex NZ legend with 24 tests. 

 

Its fairly obvious Parish is getting no where near the best out of this team. There is no argument. He has gone terrible since the 2017 RLWC though before then he did quite well. If Parish is an obstacle for Samoa achieving success he needs to go. Obviously it would be better if a Craig Bellamy or Ivan Cleary took over but at the moment the only offer is the Johns brothers and SBW which would still be an improvement over the current coach who cant attract the top tier players or get the best out of them when they play.  

[M j M]

Whatever we think of Matt Parrish it's hard to think anything other than these three - who have zero coaching credibility - as being seriously dickish in trying to publicly get him sacked so they can apply their doubtful talents to the matter.

[langpark]

1 hour ago, B rad said:

Martin Taupau who is an ex NZ legend with 24 tests.

You make some good points.  But in fairness, the Martin Taupau defection (at the height of his career and while still being chosen for NZ, to me, is pretty significant and goes against everything else we seem to be hearing about Parish and what the players think of him.

[B rad]

New Article from Fox sports. Very informative. 

“Next time there’s a Test he won’t get the cattle,” says Maitua. “Nobody will want to play.

“What he’s done for them is enough, we need a fresh face to lure the top talent back to Samoa.

“Sia [Soliola] is the number one leader. He is the only man in the NRL that can have an influence on the younger players. He is a leader without saying anything.

“And if he isn’t playing [since 2013], you’ve got to ask why? It’s confusing that nobody can see that from inside the Samoan inner sanctum.

“It’s baffling why they want to stay with the same methods. Until that happens, then everything will stay the same way.”

Parish was contacted for comment, however, he responded that he had no intention to provide any formal comment.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/world-cup/booze-boycotts-taking-the-pss-the-civil-war-threatening-to-tear-footymad-nation-apart/news-story/0a88eca6b61cbdeb7e0bef74e40748e4

[Yakstorm]

15 hours ago, langpark said:

Wrong again. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa_national_rugby_league_team_results

In their last 10 matches they have had:

2 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses. Three of which were against the big 3 (Aus, NZ, England) and another three against Tonga.

Again, for the most part they have been a team of no-namers. I think people are confusing the number of Samoa-eligible players with how many actually choose Samoa when push comes to shove. And the idea that SBW (who never once seriously considered playing for Samoa during his career) could suddenly be the man to cause mass defections to Samoa is just ridiculous. 

What's with the hostility @langpark? I'll admit I counted wrong, they have had 2 wins, not 1 in the last 10 matches, but my post (and my only post in this thread, so I'm not sure what I said before that was wrong) never said that SBW was the saviour and would lead to mass defections (never mentioned him) or that they would have won those previous matches (I even said that potentially 2014 was Samoa's peak).

[Scubby]

6 hours ago, B rad said:

New Article from Fox sports. Very informative. 

“Next time there’s a Test he won’t get the cattle,” says Maitua. “Nobody will want to play.

“What he’s done for them is enough, we need a fresh face to lure the top talent back to Samoa.

“Sia [Soliola] is the number one leader. He is the only man in the NRL that can have an influence on the younger players. He is a leader without saying anything.

“And if he isn’t playing [since 2013], you’ve got to ask why? It’s confusing that nobody can see that from inside the Samoan inner sanctum.

“It’s baffling why they want to stay with the same methods. Until that happens, then everything will stay the same way.”

Parish was contacted for comment, however, he responded that he had no intention to provide any formal comment.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/world-cup/booze-boycotts-taking-the-pss-the-civil-war-threatening-to-tear-footymad-nation-apart/news-story/0a88eca6b61cbdeb7e0bef74e40748e4

It's pretty damning. Why is Parish hanging on there? Why are they keeping him?

[RP London]

On 07/05/2021 at 21:49, langpark said:

This!

From the very beginning, it felt to me like he made a throwaway comment on his show, that then escalated into something bigger, then eventually blew up like it did.  There seem to be no shortage of people around him that seem to want to inflate his ego, which hasn't helped matters either.

It reminds me of when you get on the beer with your mates, talk nonsense with each other, throw around crazy ideas etc. then the next day it's all forgotten.  Only this time, it wasn't forgotten and they are still persisting with it.

First year at Uni me and a mate decided to apply for the Sheffield Wednesday and Nottingham Forest jobs (him being a forest fan and me being an Owl) as both jobs were free.. we basically wanted the letter head.. all good fun.. but we then started a competition for who could get the most and then who could get the strangest (I got rejected by Everton in quite a stern way as they had a manager at the time... Samoa take note)..

My mate was quite a good footballer so had a better CV than me and ended up actually getting an interview from a club in Malta's 3rd division.. Over a beer we even planned on him getting the job, me being his assistant and us getting a free 4 week holiday in the summer before getting sacked for having no clue what we were doing!

He had an interview over the phone in the halls of residence and ended up not getting the job (funnily enough!).

That felt like a fun situation that started to get a little out of control... this has a similar feeling to it!

[UTK]

8 hours ago, B rad said:

New Article from Fox sports. Very informative. 

“Next time there’s a Test he won’t get the cattle,” says Maitua. “Nobody will want to play.

“What he’s done for them is enough, we need a fresh face to lure the top talent back to Samoa.

“Sia [Soliola] is the number one leader. He is the only man in the NRL that can have an influence on the younger players. He is a leader without saying anything.

“And if he isn’t playing [since 2013], you’ve got to ask why? It’s confusing that nobody can see that from inside the Samoan inner sanctum.

“It’s baffling why they want to stay with the same methods. Until that happens, then everything will stay the same way.”

Parish was contacted for comment, however, he responded that he had no intention to provide any formal comment.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/world-cup/booze-boycotts-taking-the-pss-the-civil-war-threatening-to-tear-footymad-nation-apart/news-story/0a88eca6b61cbdeb7e0bef74e40748e4

Quite an extensive article there. Even though there's been whispers about that petition and the general discontent of the players floating throughout the media for some time this appears to be the first time multiple players involved have officially confirmed the nature of the problems in camp. Papali'i confirming that he would swap allegiances and saying others would do the same also appears to confirm similar speculation that has arisen recently. 

I can't see how Parish makes it to the WC now that senior players have officially come out and backed this campaign against him.

 

[langpark]

8 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

What's with the hostility @langpark? I'll admit I counted wrong, they have had 2 wins, not 1 in the last 10 matches, but my post (and my only post in this thread, so I'm not sure what I said before that was wrong) never said that SBW was the saviour and would lead to mass defections (never mentioned him) or that they would have won those previous matches (I even said that potentially 2014 was Samoa's peak).

No hostility mate, just making a few corrections as I see a bit of a pattern on here if people making exaggerations and/or inaccuracies about Samoa's past performances.

I would also like to point out that none of their losses have been floggings, except the 46-0 match against Aus. And that a lot have been very close encounters. Some people also seem keen to portray Fiji and PNG as pushover teams, which they absolutely are not.

What can I say? The whole thing is starting to look like an orchestrated smear campaign in the media, because one of their mates, seemingly developed a sudden passion for Samoan Rugby League.

If I were Parish, given the circumstances, I too would walk. I only want what is best for international rugby league. I just hope if/when he does vacate the position, that they give it to anyone other than this opportunistic trio. 

PS: My SBW comments, among others, were general responses to this overall thread, not directed at you.

Edited May 12, 2021 by langpark

[M j M]

Samoa's coaching problem solved:

Matt Parish Out.

Richard Agar In.

According to the Yorkshire Evening Post.

[RL Sonja]

It will be a terrible shame if players steer away from Samoa on the basis of Parish (which it appears some might be doing). I think he should step aside for the good of the nation. 

[Davo5]

6 hours ago, RL Sonja said:

It will be a terrible shame if players steer away from Samoa on the basis of Parish (which it appears some might be doing). I think he should step aside for the good of the nation. 

I thought you said it was all Australia’s fault.

[Jughead]

Is Sean Long still involved with Samoa?

[RL Sonja]

3 hours ago, Davo5 said:

I thought you said it was all Australia’s fault.

He’s Australian.

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

Is Sean Long still involved with Samoa?

Let's hope not.

Samoa could really do with a Des Hasler right now and they could be anything. So much raw potential.

[RL Sonja]

https://www.zerotackle.com/will-samoa-find-their-potential-at-the-world-cup-114938/

Good article here. 

[langpark]

On 06/03/2022 at 13:52, Jughead said:

Is Sean Long still involved with Samoa?

Perhaps you have confused them with France? 

[Jughead]

5 minutes ago, langpark said:

Perhaps you have confused them with France? 

I’m sure Long was involved with Samoa under Parish after the two worked together at Salford?