V’landys Faces NRLs Biggest Test: Blowout Scores (Merged threads)

[Sports Prophet]

Rd 1 - TWM 143 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 2 - TWM 85 / twelve or < 5 / eighteen or < 6

Rd 3 - TWM 129 / twelve or < 4 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 4 - TWM 209 / twelve < 1 / eighteen or < 3

Rd 5 - TWM 136 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 6 - TWM 121 / twelve or < 5 / eighteen  or < 5

Rd 7 - TWM 156 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 8 - TWM 128 / twelve or < 4 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 9 - TWM 154 / twelve or <  4 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 10 - TWM 179 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 11 - TWM 138(not including 1pt ET win for Sharks, suck ship Dragons) / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 12 - TWM 153 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 14 - TWM - 146 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 3

Rd 15 - TWM - 188 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 3

Rd 16 - TWM - 214 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 4

Rds 13 & 17 (1/2 Rds) - TWM 144 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 18 - TWM 148 / twelve or < 1 / eighteen or < 7

Only one game was won by two converted try’s or less. Competitive fixtures are a thing of the past. 

Challenge Cup however was a great game and sounded like a fantastic atmosphere. I hope those that went enjoyed themselves.

[Graham]

Sports Prophet and Unapologetic Pedant, I have hidden the last two posts (one each) as they had lewd elements to them. Keep your views on the subject clean and we'll have a better discussion.

[The Rocket]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

just the one game within two converted try’s @Anita Bath. That is the absolute minimum margin I personally consider for a fixture to fit the definition of competitive.

But what about competitive for 60 minutes, a la Tigers/Broncos, Bulldogs/Roosters, Saints/Manly of the three that I can think of off the top of my head. 

Surely when a game is a tight and entertaining tussle for the majority of the game, and especially if it contains some absolute highlights, then if one team runs away with it at the end then that is not a capital offence, surely not worth condemning the whole round.

Despite my disappointment with the Saints fading on Friday night, there was a couple of tries in there, and especially two involving the new St. George fullback Sloane, that will keep a smile on my face thinking of better days to come

.Manly Sea Eagles beat St George Illawarra Dragons in Round 18 of 2021 NRL season (nine.com.au)

Scroll down this post and have a look at the the piece titled "Scintillating Sloanes Brilliance".

 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Graham said:

Sports Prophet and Unapologetic Pedant, I have hidden the last two posts (one each) as they had lewd elements to them. Keep your views on the subject clean and we'll have a better discussion.

Where have you hidden them?

Didn`t you post a picture of Dick Emery`s vicar a while back?

Have you no decorum? Ban this filth!

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, The Rocket said:

But what about competitive for 60 minutes, a la Tigers/Broncos, Bulldogs/Roosters, Saints/Manly of the three that I can think of off the top of my head. 

Surely when a game is a tight and entertaining tussle for the majority of the game, and especially if it contains some absolute highlights, then if one team runs away with it at the end then that is not a capital offence, surely not worth condemning the whole round.

Despite my disappointment with the Saints fading on Friday night, there was a couple of tries in there, and especially two involving the new St. George fullback Sloane, that will keep a smile on my face thinking of better days to come

.Manly Sea Eagles beat St George Illawarra Dragons in Round 18 of 2021 NRL season (nine.com.au)

Scroll down this post and have a look at the the piece titled "Scintillating Sloanes Brilliance".

 

Fair you are Rocket. You are right, few games had the huge capitulation we have seen so regularly most rounds this year.

7 fixtures were won by 18 or less, which I think the records demonstrate a record for the year, or at least equals it.

Still, I think if we wanted to demonstrate the strength of the competition, a measure of fixtures won by 6 or less and then 12 or less is a better marker than 12 and 18 that I have been using in another thread.

 

[The Rocket]

17 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Fair you are Rocket. You are right, few games had the huge capitulation we have seen so regularly most rounds this year.

7 fixtures were won by 18 or less, which I think the records demonstrate a record for the year, or at least equals it.

Still, I think if we wanted to demonstrate the strength of the competition, a measure of fixtures won by 6 or less and then 12 or less is a better marker than 12 and 18 that I have been using in another thread.

 

With all due respect SP you seem to have missed my point. I`m saying that in any high intensity contest it shouldn`t be surprising that one opponent eventually gets the upper hand in the struggle and given the high intensity nature of that contest once getting that upperhand runs roughshod over their opponent. As much a I loathe to use boxing as a comparison, maybe it too is another example of such high intensity physical contest where one opponent is eventually overpowered and often as is the extreme nature of boxing, knocked out.

Maybe we should be recognising that late blow-outs or runaway victories are part and parcel of the extreme physical nature of modern League. Just enjoy the initial struggle.

[Sports Prophet]

I get your point and you’re supported by the absolute hammering’s handed out to the Sea Eagles, Roosters and Bunnies, despite being in the upper echelon of “competitive clubs” this year.

I didn’t miss your point, just that regardless, a match lasts 80 and to use the boxing analogy, I just want to see a few games a week go the distance.

Maybe you’re right and it is time to consider competitive fixtures from start to finish a thing of scarcity moving forward.

[unapologetic pedant]

On 19/07/2021 at 10:54, The Rocket said:

Despite my disappointment with the Saints fading on Friday night, there was a couple of tries in there, and especially two involving the new St. George fullback Sloane, that will keep a smile on my face thinking of better days to come

In a post of yours on the Fumbleball thread you invoked the range of skills a RL highlights package can comprise. Some combinations of these skills, and the patterns they paint on the pitch, would rarely if ever occur if every game were tight. In that context, they are too risky.

I had a look again at the highlights of Bulldogs 0 Sea-Eagles 66 from a month ago. A blowout by any standards, and ideally shouldn`t happen.

Nonetheless, Manly were made to produce brilliant football for virtually all their tries. Most were either long-range and/or involved extensive slick ball movement. The final try was a DCE cross-field kick from inside his own 10m line, collected by Jason Saab who went the distance, burning the full-back on the inside. We would never see a play like that attempted in a close contest. "It`s a thing of beauty" said the commentator, and he wasn`t wrong.

On 19/07/2021 at 10:54, The Rocket said:

Surely when a game is a tight and entertaining tussle for the majority of the game, and especially if it contains some absolute highlights, then if one team runs away with it at the end then that is not a capital offence, surely not worth condemning the whole round.

Players are liberated by periods of play when the result is no longer in doubt. They can display the full variety that RL has the potential to bring forth.

If all 8 games were decided by one score every week, the principle outcome would be an increase in no-risk one-out hit-ups. Only if there`s an insatiable appetite for big blokes smashing into each other in narrow confines would this boost the game`s popularity.

[The Rocket]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Players are liberated by periods of play when the result is no longer in doubt. They can display the full variety that RL has the potential to bring forth.

" Flicking the switch to vaudeville " you might say.

[Anita Bath]

15 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

In a post of yours on the Fumbleball thread you invoked the range of skills a RL highlights package can comprise. Some combinations of these skills, and the patterns they paint on the pitch, would rarely if ever occur if every game were tight. In that context, they are too risky.

I had a look again at the highlights of Bulldogs 0 Sea-Eagles 66 from a month ago. A blowout by any standards, and ideally shouldn`t happen.

Nonetheless, Manly were made to produce brilliant football for virtually all their tries. Most were either long-range and/or involved extensive slick ball movement. The final try was a DCE cross-field kick from inside his own 10m line, collected by Jason Saab who went the distance, burning the full-back on the inside. We would never see a play like that attempted in a close contest. "It`s a thing of beauty" said the commentator, and he wasn`t wrong.

Players are liberated by periods of play when the result is no longer in doubt. They can display the full variety that RL has the potential to bring forth.

If all 8 games were decided by one score every week, the principle outcome would be an increase in no-risk one-out hit-ups. Only if there`s an insatiable appetite for big blokes smashing into each other in narrow confines would this boost the game`s popularity.

Popularity? There are a hell of a lot of Wigan Walks happening as the frequency of blow outs increase. So evidence from the paying customers is they dont appreciate these periods of liberated play. I expect the same applies to TV viewing figures...when it gets to 18 points or more I switch over and watch Vera ....unlike blow out games I never know how that will end.

[Futtocks]

1 hour ago, Anita Bath said:

when it gets to 18 points or more I switch over and watch Vera

You must have missed so many comeback wins against the Raiders.

[Anita Bath]

25 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

You must have missed so many comeback wins against the Raiders.

In the words of that great master of the English language Donald Rumsfeld, the Raiders giving up big leads is one of life’s  known knowns.

[Futtocks]

2 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

In the words of that great master of the English language Donald Rumsfeld, the Raiders giving up big leads is one of life’s  known knowns.

Too true!

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Popularity? There are a hell of a lot of Wigan Walks happening as the frequency of blow outs increase. So evidence from the paying customers is they dont appreciate these periods of liberated play. I expect the same applies to TV viewing figures...when it gets to 18 points or more I switch over and watch Vera ....unlike blow out games I never know how that will end.

Long time ago I walked out of a Soccer match at half-time. In retrospect, it was a sign I was losing interest in Soccer.

If I could be persuaded to start watching an AFL TV game, and the margin got to 18 points or more, I`d switch off and read "Vera, or the Nihilists". That`s probably because I don`t like Aussie Rules, but I do like Oscar Wilde. Each to their own.

I`ve never walked out of a RL game. That`s probably because I like watching RL. 

I did once spend a happy and sunny Good Friday watching Swinton beat Wigan at Central Park. Some of the locals went a-walking with around 10 minutes left on the clock. Perhaps significantly, they were the ones who`d spent the previous 70 minutes wailing and moaning about pretty much everything.

Maybe it might be better to encourage RL "fans" to appreciate RL in more depth. And to enjoy watching it. Sports who do this tend to be more popular.

[Graham]

Round 19 is producing much closer results in more competitive matches. Only Knights fell away in the second half of their game after being in the fight against Roosters in the first half.

Cowboys taking Storm almost all the way was a mighty achievement and a no doubt a pleasure for the neutral fan to see.

 

[Sports Prophet]

On 22/07/2021 at 10:38, unapologetic pedant said:

…

Maybe it might be better to encourage RL "fans" to appreciate RL in more depth. And to enjoy watching it. Sports who do this tend to be more popular.

Surely an Unapologetic Pedant fond of the works of Oscar Wilde would be far less careless to attribute sport in a pro-noun context?

I digress… I watched the Cows hold their own against the Storm tonight and Raiders pip the Eels. Two very enjoyable matches I might add.

Roosters win became a procession, but I wouldn’t call it a blow out by any means, which gets to either @The Rocket’s or @unapologetic pedant’s comments on another thread that there shouldn’t necessarily be the expectation that every game is winnable for both sides in the last two minutes. That game drifted out around the 65th minute mark, which I can fathom as fitting the definition of “contest”.

In hindsight, I perhaps could have considered a different rationale for my other thread on the weekly NRL winning margin. Rather than offer a generous 18 points after 80 minutes as some sort of consideration, I would have been better considering matches with teams within 12 points of each other after 70 minutes.

I may review this, if only for my interest

[unapologetic pedant]

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Surely an Unapologetic Pedant fond of the works of Oscar Wilde would be far less careless to attribute sport in a pro-noun context?

"Sports that" is probably more felicitous than "Sports who", but in my judgement either is acceptable in the context, given that "sports" connoted the people involved in the sports doing something. Both "that" and "who" are relative pronouns.

BTW, there is no hyphen in pronoun. - "Pro-noun" implies support for nouns. You must have been reading about the great 19th century grammar riots where Pro-Noun and Anti-Noun factions fought pitched battles. Nowadays, we`re less belligerently pedantic in England. More`s the pity.

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

In hindsight, I perhaps could have considered a different rationale for my other thread on the weekly NRL winning margin. Rather than offer a generous 18 points after 80 minutes as some sort of consideration, I would have been better considering matches with teams within 12 points of each other after 70 minutes.

My general argument on all this is that there is a dominant on-field "you know it when you see it" element to whether a RL game is competitive, which in the years I`ve been watching the game has changed in its relationship with the scoreboard. And in my view, the popular perception hasn`t changed commensurately. All your stats are superficial manifestations thereof.

"The truth is rarely pure, and never simple"

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I may review this, if only for my interest

We await, on tenterhooks, and with bated breath.

[Sports Prophet]

On 24/07/2021 at 11:14, unapologetic pedant said:

We await, on tenterhooks, and with bated breath.

Speak for yourself

[The Rocket]

On 24/07/2021 at 07:37, Sports Prophet said:

, I would have been better considering matches with teams within 12 points of each other after 70 minutes.

I was going to suggest something similar, maybe not that extreme, 12 with 10 might be taking it a bit far, not insurmountable, but certainly running out of time, I`d go more for something like 6-10 with 20 to go. I`d still call that by and large a competitive match.

[unapologetic pedant]

49 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Speak for yourself

I`m guessing you`ll be hiring the Opera House for a grand and dazzling presentation when you`re ready to unveil your new NRL winning margin accounting method. I`ll certainly be buying a ticket. Although as you imply, I could be in a minority of one, speaking for myself.

If I have to withdraw, you`ll be notified at short notice. With literally hundreds of Covid cases and violent demonstrations, Sydney looks a desperately dangerous place at the moment. My health and safety has to come first.

BTW, for the second night running, Nine`s NRL game failed to make the top 20 programmes in the metro ratings despite both Eels/Raiders and Cowboys/Storm being close games. Not helpful to your primary thesis.

[Sports Prophet]

44 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I`m guessing you`ll be hiring the Opera House for a grand and dazzling presentation when you`re ready to unveil your new NRL winning margin accounting method. I`ll certainly be buying a ticket. Although as you imply, I could be in a minority of one, speaking for myself.

If I have to withdraw, you`ll be notified at short notice. With literally hundreds of Covid cases and violent demonstrations, Sydney looks a desperately dangerous place at the moment. My health and safety has to come first.

It’s a shame you’re so confrontational.

Just because we don’t often agree, doesn’t mean I don’t value your contributions. Although I prefer them when they are factual and not trying to humiliate people with sarcasm. 

With you being a fan of Oscar Wilde, I am surprised with your post above.

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s a shame you’re so confrontational.

Just because we don’t often agree, doesn’t mean I don’t value your contributions. Although I prefer them when they are factual and not trying to humiliate people with sarcasm. 

With you being a fan of Oscar Wilde, I am surprised with your post above.

I didn`t think there was anything particularly "confrontational" or humiliating in the previous post. I`m surprised that you`re surprised by sardonic vignettes, if you`re also familiar with the works of Oscar Wilde. Maybe you`re in lockdown and it`s affecting your mood?

On the subject of being factual, the argument you continue to studiously skirt around is that to a RL fan the scores of RL games are not the sole determinant of whether a game is competitive and enjoyable to watch. That more subtle discernment, will remain unaddressed, even if you alter your assessment of plain numerical facts.

[Sports Prophet]

1 minute ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I didn`t think there was anything particularly "confrontational" or humiliating in the previous post. I`m surprised that you`re surprised by sardonic vignettes, if you`re also familiar with the works of Oscar Wilde. Maybe you`re in lockdown and it`s affecting your mood?

On the subject of being factual, the argument you continue to studiously skirt around is that to a RL fan the scores of RL games are not the sole determinant of whether a game is competitive and enjoyable to watch. That more subtle discernment, will remain unaddressed, even if you alter your assessment of plain numerical facts.

I’m not familiar with the works of Oscar Wilde.

Neither I’m not the only one to demonstrate my displeasure at the blowouts. I am part of what is at least, a very large minority.

[Graham]

Move on please...

Points relating directly to Blowout scores - great

Personal rivalry/points scoring element  - no thanks.

 

[The Rocket]

22 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I’m not familiar with the works of Oscar Wilde

Wilde had the knack of turning everything on its` head. 

One of my favourites of his, " Punctuality is the thief of time".

I just wish I could think of a quote of his that I could relate to Rugby League. Closest I can come up with is " the unspeakable chasing the inedible " Wilde used it to describe foxhunting, we could probably turn it to Fergo`s pursuit of Addo-Carr in last years finals.