V’landys Faces NRLs Biggest Test: Blowout Scores (Merged threads)

[Sports Prophet]

7 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I understand your reticence. People can be cruel.

I can handle the barbs of the less enlightened. What does irk me is the reduced capacity we get for reasonable discussion.

[The Rocket]

7 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I understand your reticence. People can be cruel.

 

7 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I can handle the barbs of the less enlightened. What does irk me is the reduced capacity we get for reasonable discussion.

Kamahl – The Elephant Song Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

" Why are people so unkind " 

[Sports Prophet]

3 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

 

Kamahl – The Elephant Song Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

" Why are people so unkind " 

I think there is something in that for all of us

[unapologetic pedant]

On 12/06/2021 at 14:52, The Rocket said:

When leading vs trailing

Minor premiers Penrith lost just one game all through the regular season but even so, to only concede three ruck infringements all year when behind on the scoreboard is remarkable. The Storm and Roosters were next best with nine each, then Souths (14) and Parramatta (17).

At the other end of the scale, wooden spooners Brisbane (38) conceded the second-most set restarts while behind – five better than eventual ninth-place finishers the Titans (43) who had a real habit of compounding their problems with ruck infringements when trailing in games.

The Panthers were more than happy to give restarts away from in front with their 64 while leading far more than the Roosters (52) and Storm (44)

The media interpretation of the RL tackle and ruck runs no further than "player is tackled, gets up, plays ball", and that a ruck infringement is too long a delay in the simple process.

But legality isn`t only determined by time. Defenders can avert sanction by controlling the tackle before it`s complete, then reading the body positions in the ruck on the ground. And by knowing what constitutes a second effort, how long they can hold or manoeuvre depending on the type of tackle, and heeding the guidance of the ref. The whole thing is a fine line.

The stats above indicate that effective teams get in the collective habit of adjusting these elements according to the state of the game.

The more simplistic might pronounce it cynical, but an instinctive sense of how and when to stay just the right side of legal is integral to success in any sport.

[The Rocket]

On 12/06/2021 at 23:52, The Rocket said:

When leading vs trailing

Minor premiers Penrith lost just one game all through the regular season but even so, to only concede three ruck infringements all year when behind on the scoreboard is remarkable. The Storm and Roosters were next best with nine each, then Souths (14) and Parramatta (17).

 

At the other end of the scale, wooden spooners Brisbane (38) conceded the second-most set restarts while behind – five better than eventual ninth-place finishers the Titans (43) who had a real habit of compounding their problems with ruck infringements when trailing in games.

The Panthers were more than happy to give restarts away from in front with their 64 while leading far more than the Roosters (52) and Storm (44)

 

11 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

 

The stats above indicate that effective teams get in the collective habit of adjusting these elements according to the state of the game.

The more simplistic might pronounce it cynical, but an instinctive sense of how and when to stay just the right side of legal is integral to success in any sport.

I`d say the answer to the momentum question is right there in those remarkable stats. I`d go further and say that if statistics where available they`d show that the same teams commit less errors when in the same situation.

Inversely, them giving away six-agains when in front is probably more indicative of a fast moving and energetic defence rather than stupid leg-pulls and lingering in the tackle too long. A combination of ill-discipline, stupidity and poor coaching perhaps.

I  turned off both of yesterdays games, sick to the back teeth of seeing both the Warriors and Tigers making mistakes when coming out of their own end and both behind on the scoreboard. dumb dumb dumb dumb...dumb.

But someone please explain to me, although I doubt the Panthers, Storms, Roosters, Parra and Souths players are any smarter than the players in any other team, how do they seem to play controlled football so much better than everyone else.

[unapologetic pedant]

8 hours ago, The Rocket said:

But someone please explain to me, although I doubt the Panthers, Storms, Roosters, Parra and Souths players are any smarter than the players in any other team, how do they seem to play controlled football so much better than everyone else.

 

On 11/06/2021 at 14:13, The Rocket said:

 There must be strong psychological forces at play here. 

A good analogy, which doesn`t involve anything physical, is taking exams. As you turn your paper over, if this is a subject you have an aptitude for, and you`ve done the work, any difficult questions are just challenges to overcome.

If however it`s a subject you don`t feel on top of, or you haven`t done the work, difficult questions generate mounting panic. Before long, your addled mind is struggling to find answers to simple questions, the sort you`d have no trouble with in other circumstances.

In a RL team there are 13 or 17 temperaments to potentially lose faith in themselves and each other in response to error or misfortune. That`s a lot of permutations of reciprocal  doubt. Plus I do believe there is such a thing as a team psyche that ultimately derives from the coaching staff.

[unapologetic pedant]

17 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think there is something in that for all of us

Up there with the Sermon on the Mount.

[unapologetic pedant]

17 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I can handle the barbs of the less enlightened. What does irk me is the reduced capacity we get for reasonable discussion.

If you`re too bashful to preach the Aussie Rules gospel, infidels will be left to conjecture that the wildly fluctuating momentum swings in AFL are merely symptoms of an exercise in nonsensical badly-dressed randomness.

[Sports Prophet]

17 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

If you`re too bashful to preach the Aussie Rules gospel, infidels will be left to conjecture that the wildly fluctuating momentum swings in AFL are merely symptoms of an exercise in nonsensical badly-dressed randomness.

Father forgive them, for they do not know what they think.

[unapologetic pedant]

On 14/06/2021 at 07:30, The Rocket said:

I  turned off both of yesterdays games, sick to the back teeth of seeing both the Warriors and Tigers making mistakes when coming out of their own end and both behind on the scoreboard. dumb dumb dumb dumb...dumb.

Now that Sports Prophet is voluntarily incommunicado on the subject of AFL, I`ll have to wonder rhetorically whether there`s an Aussie Rules equivalent of the Rocket`s above disgruntlement.

i.e. do AFL fans switch off AFL games in response to perceived incompetence? I suspect not. They`re hardly likely to react adversely to seeing the ball repeatedly dropped or fumbled.

I watched another women`s game on Monday where the NSWRL commentator must have said "was that a little bobble?" or "was that a little knock-on?" about 20 times. Along with "was that an obstruction?", "was that pass forward?" etc.

Even when replays were shown and he had to admit there had been no knock-on, it didn`t stop him relentlessly looking for more "little bobbles". Seeing everything as a possible problem seems an ingrained habit. It undermines the game.

I`ve said before that PVL, rather than trying to speed up the game, would be better employed in transforming the culture of inane perfectionism in RL. He can see from the popularity of AFL that the general sports fan does not have an aversion to loose play or the ball bobbling.

[Sports Prophet]

On 13/06/2021 at 21:46, Man of Kent said:

Have to say my interest in the NRL is declining rapidly due to the blowouts/virtual ‘inevitability’ of the result once a team gets on top early. It’s becoming boring.

Finals time will be interesting but until then I can take it or leave it. 

Yep. You are part of the fastest growing demographic of NRL fans.

[Sports Prophet]

On 14/06/2021 at 14:30, The Rocket said:

 

 

I  turned off both of yesterdays games, sick to the back teeth of seeing both the Warriors and Tigers making mistakes when coming out of their own end and both behind on the scoreboard. dumb dumb dumb dumb...dumb.

But someone please explain to me, although I doubt the Panthers, Storms, Roosters, Parra and Souths players are any smarter than the players in any other team, how do they seem to play controlled football so much better than everyone else.

Yep. Those performances really were pony. It couldn’t have been easy watching the Saints either I suspect.

I think the controlled footy is a simple matter of mindset, where the many potential complex structures for any number of complex scenarios become instinctive for not only one, but all 17 players.

Thats why the Storm can lose three great players and have three more jump in and still succeed with the same brand of footy.

[Man of Kent]

8 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Yep. You are part of the fastest growing demographic of NRL fans.

I find myself switching off more and more due to the lack of contest.

What seems to be happening is that a side that may have previously lost by one or two tries is now losing by three or four (if not more) and the intrigue is gone.

 

[The Rocket]

52 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Now that Sports Prophet is voluntarily incommunicado on the subject of AFL, I`ll have to wonder rhetorically whether there`s an Aussie Rules equivalent of the Rocket`s above disgruntlement.

i.e. do AFL fans switch off AFL games in response to perceived incompetence? I suspect not. They`re hardly likely to react adversely to seeing the ball repeatedly dropped or fumbled.

I was marveling the other day how the afl had managed to legalise all those things that in other sports would halt play; knock-ons, forward-passes, offside, forget about it, play on.

On reflection, given that it was originally designed as a way for cricket players to stay fit in winter, I suppose the less stoppages the better.

Generally though even the lowest scoring fumble-a-thon is talked up in the media and some redeeming feature found. 

I can`t speak for the fans, as I don`t visit their forums and I always suspect that derogatory comments left in the comments sections of the papers are from people like myself, not really fans, just taking the opportunity to have a sly dig.

It`s very rare to see a negative headline, they would appear to keep all that stuff in-house and then remedied with their annual raft of rule changes that occur at the end of every season.

One thing I have to ask you, does the incessant blowing of the whistle bother you ? Every time I hear it I`m reminded of hangovers past, and I start dreading that next shriek of the whistle. I defy anyone to go to that game after they`ve had a big one the night before.

Perhaps best left to do your drinking during the game, probably helps with the general air of mirth in the crowd that accompanies the antics on-field.

[The Rocket]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I find myself switching off more and more due to the lack of contest.

What seems to be happening is that a side that may have previously lost by one or two tries is now losing by three or four (if not more) and the intrigue is gone.

 

I think the problem for me has been more the way that teams are getting themselves into these situations.

I wouldn`t mind it so much if the team trailing was at least getting down to or near the attacking zone in most sets, but to see error after error when you`re behind on the score board and trying to get back into the game, I find very hard to take.

I saw some stats the other day, in 2015 in 40% of games the favourite lost, I think that figure this year is closer to 20%.

[Sports Prophet]

15 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I find myself switching off more and more due to the lack of contest.

What seems to be happening is that a side that may have previously lost by one or two tries is now losing by three or four (if not more) and the intrigue is gone.

 

Well, things didn’t get much better last round. Only two fixtures were decided by twelve or less points and only one more that was decided by eighteen or less.

More than half the games were won by more than three converted try’s. It is an absolute issue that plagues the game right now. The avg winning margin for the weekend was over 18 points and that is when two victories were by a point.

Very hard to stay tuned for an entire match. The Kayo minis (20 minute highlights of each game) gain much more of my attention these days.

 

Rd 1 - TWM 143 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 2 - TWM 85 / twelve or < 5 / eighteen or < 6

Rd 3 - TWM 129 / twelve or < 4 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 4 - TWM 209 / twelve < 1 / eighteen or < 3

Rd 5 - TWM 136 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 6 - TWM 121 / twelve or < 5 / eighteen  or < 5

Rd 7 - TWM 156 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 8 - TWM 128 / twelve or < 4 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 9 - TWM 154 / twelve or <  4 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 10 - TWM 179 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 11 - TWM 138 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 5 (not including 1pt ET win for Sharks, suck ship Dragons)

Rd 12 - TWM 153 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 13 (1/2 Rd) - TWM 90 / twelve or < 1 / eighteen or < 1

Rd 14 - TWM - 146 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 3

[Sports Prophet]

To date...

- avg winning margin is 18.2 pts

- avg 3 matches per round won by 12 or less

- avg 4.4 matches per round won by 18 points or less

as far as I am concerned, teams need to be within 2 converted try’s for a game to be considered close, so from my perspective, a lot less than half the NRL games this season have been a contest.

This is where soccer gets a leg up. You can have an extremely one sided 1-0 result, but that team that lost, were still only one goal away from drawing level. I suspect that is a strong reason why it keeps the attention of fans much longer more regularly.

[unapologetic pedant]

7 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

This is where soccer gets a leg up. You can have an extremely one sided 1-0 result, but that team that lost, were still only one goal away from drawing level. I suspect that is a strong reason why it keeps the attention of fans much longer more regularly.

This is true, but it only underlines the need for sports that naturally have more scoring to better educate the audience in how to enjoy a game.

And the downside of a team leading by a goal in Soccer is that they spend the last 10 minutes wasting time - Faffing about at the corner flag, goalkeepers taking an age to restart, substituted players walking off at a snail`s pace, etc. All that tosh makes me want to switch off. Whereas I enjoy the winning team in RL loosening up and razzle-dazzling a few extra tries.

BTW, I noticed a 94-94 draw in AFL at the weekend. So both teams were one miss away from a win. I suggested golden-miss extra time on another thread. Would there be a problem with that? - too embarrassing?

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

One thing I have to ask you, does the incessant blowing of the whistle bother you ? Every time I hear it I`m reminded of hangovers past, and I start dreading that next shriek of the whistle. I defy anyone to go to that game after they`ve had a big one the night before.

Perhaps best left to do your drinking during the game, probably helps with the general air of mirth in the crowd that accompanies the antics on-field.

Never watched AFL long enough to notice how much whistle there is. But in RL I dread the whistle every time the ball goes to ground. Nothing to do with drinking or hangovers. My strongest libation is a high-dose vitamin C formula.

A "general air of mirth" at RL games wouldn`t go amiss. Tigers fans managed it at Leichardt against the Panthers, culminating in their "Cleary`s a ######" chant. Although they missed a trick with Phil Gould in the house.

[Sports Prophet]

8 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

This is true, but it only underlines the need for sports that naturally have more scoring to better educate the audience in how to enjoy a game.

And the downside of a team leading by a goal in Soccer is that they spend the last 10 minutes wasting time - Faffing about at the corner flag, goalkeepers taking an age to restart, substituted players walking off at a snail`s pace, etc. All that tosh makes me want to switch off. Whereas I enjoy the winning team in RL loosening up and razzle-dazzling a few extra tries.

BTW, I noticed a 94-94 draw in AFL at the weekend. So both teams were one miss away from a win. I suggested golden-miss extra time on another thread. Would there be a problem with that? - too embarrassing?

I think of it like a test match. If you can’t get a result after three hours of footy, call it a day and have both teams leave with a share of the points

[unapologetic pedant]

6 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think of it like a test match. If you can’t get a result after three hours of footy, call it a day and have both teams leave with a share of the points

What happens at finals time in AFL in the event of a draw?

[Sports Prophet]

Just now, unapologetic pedant said:

What happens at finals time in AFL in the event of a draw?

ET 5 each way. Until around 2016, a GF would be replayed the following Saturday

[unapologetic pedant]

19 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I saw some stats the other day, in 2015 in 40% of games the favourite lost, I think that figure this year is closer to 20%.

Accepting that a wider than usual gap has emerged between top and bottom, rather than rule changes I think the main reason is poor roster management at some clubs related to the greater tendency in recent years to sack coaches.

Off-field chopping and changing inhibits the development of players, particularly younger ones. 

Only when ensconced in the stability of the Storm`s system has Nicho Hynes become a player the Sharks wanted to sign. Isaiah Papali`i looks ten times the player at Parra that he was at the Warriors. Plenty of other examples.

Craig Bellamy`s record probably makes him unassailable at Melbourne irrespective of form, but there have been several times since 2014 that Brad Arthur has been on the verge of getting the boot, and when it seemed the majority of Eels "fans" wanted him gone.

Where Parra are demonstrating the benefits of continuity, the Broncos are proof positive of the dangers of its opposite.

[Sports Prophet]

The NRL continues to throw up lop sided results. This week only three fixtures were won by 18 points or less. 

The Melbourne and Manly victories clearly demonstrate the power of momentum in 2021. 

I cannot remember the disparity between a top and the rest being so vast. Fixtures continue to be “no contests”.

An interesting comment from a Knights fan I was chatting to last week. Despite a group of starters to return in the coming weeks, he said would prefer to “miss out on the top 8 to avoid embarrassment in the finals”. A flippant comment he probably only half meant, but a feeling many of the clubs fans will be feeling this year.

Rd 1 - TWM 143 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 2 - TWM 85 / twelve or < 5 / eighteen or < 6

Rd 3 - TWM 129 / twelve or < 4 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 4 - TWM 209 / twelve < 1 / eighteen or < 3

Rd 5 - TWM 136 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 6 - TWM 121 / twelve or < 5 / eighteen  or < 5

Rd 7 - TWM 156 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 8 - TWM 128 / twelve or < 4 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 9 - TWM 154 / twelve or <  4 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 10 - TWM 179 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 5

Rd 11 - TWM 138 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 5 (not including 1pt ET win for Sharks, suck ship Dragons)

Rd 12 - TWM 153 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 4

Rd 13 (1/2 Rd) - TWM 90 / twelve or < 1 / eighteen or < 1

Rd 14 - TWM - 146 / twelve or < 2 / eighteen or < 3

Rd 15 - TWM - 188 / twelve or < 3 / eighteen or < 3

[The Rocket]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

The Melbourne and Manly victories clearly demonstrate the power of momentum in 2021. 

This will be the main issue occupying V`landy`s and co.`s minds as they look towards next years competition and also critically in their on-going FTA negotiations.

It would appear to me the amount of tries being scored and the manner in which they are being scored would be satisfactory to the NRL, the problem is too many are often being scored by one team on any one day.

V`landy`s and co. are at a critical juncture here, do they stick with the current rules and hope that coaches learn to adapt and develop momentum busting tactics( or is it too late for that as they try to negotiate a TV deal), do they unwind some of the rules that have sped the game up and made it so attractive yet so uneven or will see new rules introduced in an attempt to even the playing field ?

Given the six-again rule changes really came from nowhere, certainly I had never heard them discussed as possible anti-dotes to the wrestle or tactics used by coaches to control the momentum of the game, can we expect to see other left-field rules being introduced. It would be a brave person to bet against it.

One possible out of the box solution may be tampering with the interchange. Increase the interchange to eight, increase the number of interchanges, make it easier for coaches have more defensive type players on their bench that they can run on when the other team has the ball. A little bit NFL. This may also have the added advantage of allaying player welfare issues in relation to work load, fatigue with regards to tackle technique and introduce players who specialise in tackling and are less likely to perpetrate illegal tackles. 

How you would manage this interchange I`m not sure, could we do the same with offence, possibly. It could make for an interesting arms race between offensive and defensive sides in each team.

Either way, expect the unexpected, but I think we can certainly expect to see something, this isn`t an administration that likes sitting on its` hands warming the bench so to speak.