Harry Stottle Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Test series against Australia will never be surpassed for me, it is in my opinion as a British lad the pinnacle of our sport far far better than the WC, my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CmonTheBorough Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 13 hours ago, Rioman said: 1982 first test at Boothferry Park, ever the optimist I said to my mate, "I fancy us today". Come half time I said "bloody hell they're playing a different game to us". And with the odd exception have been doing ever since. I was at the 2nd Test at Wigan and thought the same that day. Even the home crowd were applauding the Aussies by the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Davo5 said: My first gave was at Brunton Park in 82,as a 15yr old rugby player I remember being amazed at the size,speed & skill of the Kangeroos,great night and still remember the long snake of lights heading back along the A69 to West Cumbria. My dad always told the story of being in the police and on duty during a kangaroo game up here , probably in the early 70s , and he was watching these half backs who were dwarfed by bigger guys - then he went on the pitch at the end to escort them off ( I mean that’s a laugh ) and he said up close you could see they weren’t small they were rock solid .... but everyone else was huge ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 16 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: It already has. I guess I can't wait for us to get involved. Some great fixtures amongst the chasing pack of England, Kiwis and those other 4 Will be great if we get some tours from the Pacific Islands over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said: I guess I can't wait for us to get involved. Some great fixtures amongst the chasing pack of England, Kiwis and those other 4 Will be great if we get some tours from the Pacific Islands over here The international game is thriving in the southern hemisphere is probably a truer reflection of the state of the game. Us in the northern hemisphere is a bit of a joke, we’d rather play the Combined Nations, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Test series against Australia will never be surpassed for me, it is in my opinion as a British lad the pinnacle of our sport far far better than the WC, my opinion of course. It is in the blood of every British Rugby League fan. If I had to choose between England winning the World Cup or a three test Ashes series against the Kangaroos I would choose the former for the good of the sport as a World Cup win would be huge for Rugby League in this country. But if I had to choose one for my own personal pleasure and satisfaction I would take the Ashes series win. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathius Hellwege Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 14 hours ago, langpark said: Great for the fans, but even better for the players. I think GB and and Kangaroos should each do a tour (as they used to) once every 10 years. That way, each generation of top players, will get one chance to play in one. It is not something that can happen every year, especially now with the World Cup and other events that have come about. But it is a shame that they disappeared completely. I think every ten years in Australia and every ten years in England, but as you have World Cup cycles ist would be every eight or twelve years Considering that Australian fans don't value international games you should do every eight years in England and every 12 years in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 5 hours ago, Dunbar said: It is in the blood of every British Rugby League fan. If I had to choose between England winning the World Cup or a three test Ashes series against the Kangaroos I would choose the former for the good of the sport as a World Cup win would be huge for Rugby League in this country. But if I had to choose one for my own personal pleasure and satisfaction I would take the Ashes series win. The problem is the Ashes series no longer exists. You'd be choosing between the world cup and something that was last played for in 2003. There would have to be a will within the game to resurrect something that anyone under 30 can probably no longer remember. For me, the 4 Nations was a great showpiece for the international game, far better than England playing Australia 3 times, and more attractive to a far wider range of supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, The Frying Scotsman said: The problem is the Ashes series no longer exists. You'd be choosing between the world cup and something that was last played for in 2003. There would have to be a will within the game to resurrect something that anyone under 30 can probably no longer remember. For me, the 4 Nations was a great showpiece for the international game, far better than England playing Australia 3 times, and more attractive to a far wider range of supporters. Yes, I am aware of this. I was simply responding to a post about the Ashes series and stating that a win in that series would have been my big dream! But the World Cup win is the most important now, I accept that. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Yes, I am aware of this. I was simply responding to a post about the Ashes series and stating that a win in that series would have been my big dream! But the World Cup win is the most important now, I accept that. Sure. I just noticed that you said: "It is in the blood of every British Rugby League fan." I think "every fan over the age of about 40" might be a fairer comment, and so hardly indicative of the future of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Sure. I just noticed that you said: "It is in the blood of every British Rugby League fan." I think "every fan over the age of about 40" might be a fairer comment, and so hardly indicative of the future of the sport. Yes, that's fair. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 No Ashes since 2003 . That’s a shocking indictment on the international game . IMO it’s the pinnacle and it should be back in the calendar regularly . In the four year cycle it should be there . Hopefully they get it kickstarted from next year , it should be part of the future in a coordinated international calendar , and not just the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogiron Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 hour ago, DavidM said: No Ashes since 2003 . That’s a shocking indictment on the international game . IMO it’s the pinnacle and it should be back in the calendar regularly . In the four year cycle it should be there . Hopefully they get it kickstarted from next year , it should be part of the future in a coordinated international calendar , and not just the past I agree with your sentiments David, however for it to happen we would have to be competitive over a whole series, not just the odd win, which we have failed to do over the last 50 years especially Down Under where we are a hard sell. To be honest when I watch the two games we are as far away from that as we have ever been. A handful of our player's in the game over there (because they can get more money yet are relatively cheaper than homegrown players) does not a test match squad make. If anyone can name any area within the game where we are even matching the NRL, bad behaviour off field aside, I would be interested, and surprised to know. I don't view the game Down Under with rose tinted glasses, I've experienced the Gents at Leichhardt a few times! but they have far more right than we could ever dream of having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 the wc (if it takes place - which i think is unlikely) will be a huge measure of where we are against australia - i was at the 2nd test at wigan in 82- watching that wally lewis pass - wow! an ashes series would have to create interest and to do that fans would have to actually believe we could beat them in a series- unfortunately in my view we are just as far away from that as we have ever been if not even further - am not sure we could even beat them in a one off game these days given the lack of talent we have to draw from now. see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 hours ago, DavidM said: No Ashes since 2003 . That’s a shocking indictment on the international game . IMO it’s the pinnacle and it should be back in the calendar regularly . In the four year cycle it should be there . Hopefully they get it kickstarted from next year , it should be part of the future in a coordinated international calendar , and not just the past How is it the pinnacle? Australia are consistently the best team in the world, and always have been, so that is fine. 'England' however have not contested an Ashes series in my lifetime. When the team was known as GB, they were also quite strong, but were sometimes behind NZ so kind of 3rd in the world. Now.... Tonga and Australia would both normally be ahead of them, the Kiwis beat them last time out, and then they have also lost to PNG recently. I remember even Italy beat them a few years ago. The reputation of the SuperLeague in Australia, is one of ridicule unfortunately (for evidence: see their media coverage of the Papa John's "sponsorship" deal). It is hardly the pinnacle, certainly not for the Australian players, and I can't think of many young people who would be desperate to watch a 3 test series against the same country. I reckon it's something that the rose-tinted spectacle types hark back to, but would potentially be a real failure if it was resurrected. A bunch of middle aged men might be attracted to it, but I can't imagine many other people being interested. Personally I think the 4 Nations played consistently would far more represent the "pinnacle" as it could be constructed to always have at least 3 of the top 4 teams in the world involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: It is hardly the pinnacle, certainly not for the Australian players, and I can't think of many young people who would be desperate to watch a 3 test series against the same country. I reckon it's something that the rose-tinted spectacle types hark back to, but would potentially be a real failure if it was resurrected. A bunch of middle aged men might be attracted to it, but I can't imagine many other people being interested. You reckon .... you imagine .... you cant think . You have a different opinion , fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Australia are consistently the best team in the world, and always have been, so that is fine. Australia haven't always been the best team in the world. Overall the ashes series stand at Australia 20 Great Britain 19 and the games stand at Australia 59 Great Britain 55 (and 5 draws). Considering the results of the last 40 years, it is pretty clear that Great Britain were the dominant team for long periods. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Australia haven't always been the best team in the world. Overall the ashes series stand at Australia 20 Great Britain 19 and the games stand at Australia 59 Great Britain 55 (and 5 draws). Considering the results of the last 40 years, it is pretty clear that Great Britain were the dominant team for long periods. Right. That may be so, but over the past 40 or so years they have been. They have also been the best for the entire period of full professionalism. They have also won 10 of the last 12 world cups going back to the 1960s. So yes... GB were probably better than them at some point, but then the game probably had 2 points for a try, unlimited tackles, contested scrums, was on black-and-white TV, and had international teams called 'Other Nationalities'. But yes... Point taken. Australia were not always the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, DavidM said: You reckon .... you imagine .... you cant think . You have a different opinion , fine Indeed. It's all about opinions - it's the nature of an internet forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 15 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Indeed. It's all about opinions - it's the nature of an internet forum. The problem that people may have is that you have projected your opinion onto the Australian players and decreed that "it is hardly the pinnacle, certainly not for the Australian players". We have no idea whether current Australian players look at the achievements of the likes of Meninga, Lewis, Kenny, Lockyer etc. and would love to emulate them in an Ashes series. They may do, they may not, but it is their opinion not yours. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 30 minutes ago, Dunbar said: The problem that people may have is that you have projected your opinion onto the Australian players and decreed that "it is hardly the pinnacle, certainly not for the Australian players". We have no idea whether current Australian players look at the achievements of the likes of Meninga, Lewis, Kenny, Lockyer etc. and would love to emulate them in an Ashes series. They may do, they may not, but it is their opinion not yours. On the last tour, several players were calling Great Britain... "England". I think that shows that if they didn't even bother to learn the name of the team they were playing against, then they don't have too much respect for them. I thought it was common knowledge though, that Australian players (in general) see Origin as the pinnacle of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 The argument that Australia have strength in depth does not follow that England have no chance anymore. Granted, that strength might ensure the team performance doesn’t get too affected but Australia can only field 13 on the pitch. Secondly, watching the NRL can sometimes give a false impression that its ‘all’ Australia, when many putting in hard work will represent other Nations. Barring ability (and I accept Aus have some exceptional players) I believe our biggest challenge is the mental strength needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 26 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: I thought it was common knowledge though, that Australian players (in general) see Origin as the pinnacle of the game. How is that relevant to the debate about the international game ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 21 minutes ago, DavidM said: How is that relevant to the debate about the international game ? Well... Only in that I had said that a tour of the North of England and playing 3 times against an English team to replicate a series that was last played for 18 years ago, is not the "pinnacle of the game" to most Australian players. I was asked "how do I know" and so I replied that Origin is, and I thought it was common knowledge. (And, as my post stated, that the Australian players didn't even know the name of the English team they were playing against). Personally I think international games should be bigger than Origin. The truth is though: they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 hour ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Well... Only in that I had said that a tour of the North of England and playing 3 times against an English team to replicate a series that was last played for 18 years ago, is not the "pinnacle of the game" to most Australian players. I was asked "how do I know" and so I replied that Origin is, and I thought it was common knowledge. (And, as my post stated, that the Australian players didn't even know the name of the English team they were playing against). Personally I think international games should be bigger than Origin. The truth is though: they aren't. I wouldn't worry too much about the Aussies not knowing the difference between England and Great Britain, I was watching the 1982 2nd Test yesterday and the commentators were describing Great Britain as England back then. There are plenty of Aussies who have won State of Origin series and maybe they would like to emulate Lewis, Kenny, Meninga, Sterling et al and win an Ashes series as well. We don't really know as we haven't given them the chance. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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