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3 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Is their anything that can be learned from the South Queensland Crushers that can give us a better understanding of how tgis franchise might fare?

Don't let the Murdochs kick off a huge split in RL the season that you launch? Even in the second season, when they finished last, their average attendance was higher than all but one of the Sydney clubs.

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30 minutes ago, JonM said:

Don't let the Murdochs kick off a huge split in RL the season that you launch? Even in the second season, when they finished last, their average attendance was higher than all but one of the Sydney clubs.

That's a positive sign then, were they playing at Suncorp? 

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32 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

That's a positive sign then, were they playing at Suncorp? 

Before it was redeveloped.

1 minute ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Yes. The broncos helped to kill them off as well.

I remember an edition of "Rugby League Week" from 1995 when the News Corp hijack was under way and nobody was paying much attention to games of football. The cover was a picture of bombed-out buildings and rubble with the headline "A Game in Ruins". Those were the circumstances in which the Crushers were trying to establish themselves.

It`s amazing that two of that year`s four new franchises have survived and thrived given what landed just after their launch.

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On 02/06/2021 at 10:19, Hull Kingston Bronco said:


Just imagine a club with the resources, development platform and community backing of the Dolphins in the UK... they’d be a top 4 side in SL. Nuts to think the NRL might reject them, or even if they accept them make them play out of Suncorp Stadium as Broncos II rather than be the long-standing, storied, locally-embedded club they are with their own amazing 10k+ facility in Redcliffe 

 

 

If you think the NRLs idea of expansion is to settle for a team that add 12k bums on seats, then you are very wide of the mark.

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6 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

If you think the NRLs idea of expansion is to settle for a team that add 12k bums on seats, then you are very wide of the mark.

Yeah I agree, the idea of adding a club that has a serious limit on its growth due to the ground is a bit unsettling for me. They have a capacity lower than the lowest average attendance in the league. It's the reason people were massively unhappy any London playing SL out of Trailfinders.

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17 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

If you think the NRLs idea of expansion is to settle for a team that add 12k bums on seats, then you are very wide of the mark.

Not what I said fella 
 

The NRL wants a 2nd team in metro Brissie for a weekly FNF home match, mainly for the C9 telly slot but of course they want 25k+ sitting in seats at the same time. So the Dolphins (or whoever) will inevitably play 90% of their matches at Suncorp to the same after-work crowd they pitch Broncos tickets too. But that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be better doing that on top of a Redcliffe club platform and challenger brand narrative.
 

Just a few matches our local is all it will take to get the best of both worlds. Better that than some plastic start-up, like a metro Titans. People will see straight through that kind of angle, no question. The story hasn’t got any kick. 
 

 

 

Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him?

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BTW... It’s Returned SERVICES League @The Rocket

In an interesting chat with someone last night, we were discussing the power of Leagues clubs and their influence on the game.

We concluded that whilst being bankrolled by League’s clubs and the pokies, this financial benefit led to complacency at all the Sydney clubs to focus on creating a match day experience that truly accommodates a club culture that keeps the interest of patrons much longer than just the playing 80 minutes. 

I haven’t seen any compelling data to demonstrate a correlation between Leagues club members and match day attendances. In my experience, similar to the thoughts of @unapologetic pedant, the large membership of the successful Leagues clubs are utilising the facility for entertainment purposes beyond their interest in football.

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7 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Not what I said fella 
 

The NRL wants a 2nd team in metro Brissie for a weekly FNF home match, mainly for the C9 telly slot but of course they want 25k+ sitting in seats at the same time. So the Dolphins (or whoever) will inevitably play 90% of their matches at Suncorp to the same after-work crowd they pitch Broncos tickets too. But that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be better doing that on top of a Redcliffe club platform and challenger brand narrative.
 

Just a few matches our local is all it will take to get the best of both worlds. Better that than some plastic start-up, like a metro Titans. People will see straight through that kind of angle, no question. The story hasn’t got any kick. 
 

 

 

To be sure. A plastic franchise has an immediate shelf life that demands on field success to remain relevant in its immediate years. I am on board with the Dolphins bid, but cannot see a future for regular NRL match days at anywhere other than Suncorp for them.

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16 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

BTW... It’s Returned SERVICES League @The Rocket

In an interesting chat with someone last night, we were discussing the power of Leagues clubs and their influence on the game.

We concluded that whilst being bankrolled by League’s clubs and the pokies, this financial benefit led to complacency at all the Sydney clubs to focus on creating a match day experience that truly accommodates a club culture that keeps the interest of patrons much longer than just the playing 80 minutes. 

I haven’t seen any compelling data to demonstrate a correlation between Leagues club members and match day attendances. In my experience, similar to the thoughts of @unapologetic pedant, the large membership of the successful Leagues clubs are utilising the facility for entertainment purposes beyond their interest in football.

This is definitely true. 

Take the Raiders Group. They own at least 6 leagues clubs (4 in the ACT, 1 in NSW, and 1 in Qld), each of those clubs easily have over ten thousand members.

If the Raiders could somehow convert even just half of those Leagues club members into football club members, then they'd easily have over 50k football club members.

That would be effectively impossible to achieve though as the vast majority of those leagues club members couldn't care less about RL, and another significant portion support other NRL teams.

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16 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Not what I said fella 
 

The NRL wants a 2nd team in metro Brissie for a weekly FNF home match, mainly for the C9 telly slot but of course they want 25k+ sitting in seats at the same time. So the Dolphins (or whoever) will inevitably play 90% of their matches at Suncorp to the same after-work crowd they pitch Broncos tickets too. But that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be better doing that on top of a Redcliffe club platform and challenger brand narrative.
 

Just a few matches our local is all it will take to get the best of both worlds. Better that than some plastic start-up, like a metro Titans. People will see straight through that kind of angle, no question. The story hasn’t got any kick. 
 

 

 

No offence, but you have an extremely surface level understanding of what's going on.

The idea that the Titans failed because of their "plastic" identity is just nonsense (which I won't go into here), and the idea that the Redcliffe Dolphins have any hope of appealing to a broader audience outside of Redcliffe and parts of Morton Bay in the short to medium term is crazy.

The analogy that often gets thrown around is that Redcliffe are Brisbane's answer to Manly, and frankly it's very accurate. Redcliffe is a tiny insular peninsula on the outskirts of Brisbane. They have a strong RL history, with lots of success, and that's lead to them not having many fans in other parts of city, if you know what I mean. They also had a reputation for not being good travelers back in the day. So yeah, very similar to Manly except for the fact that they are loaded where as Manly aren't.

Now some of that might lead you to believe that they would be a great choice for an NRL license, but stop and think about it a little deeper.

If they run with the Dolphins brand they will turn away tens of thousands of potential supporters whom have a history of competing against the Dolphins. I mean I assume from your name that you are a Hull KR fan, would you swap to Hull FC if they were promoted into a higher competition and tried to represent all of Hull?

Probably not right, nor would a significant portion of the Robins fanbase, so why would you expect any different from local fans in Brisbane, whom any new club will need significant buy in from if they are going to be successful in the NRL? There have been clubs that have been promoted from local competitions into national, or other higher competitions, that have been successful in expanding their audience in Australia, however both of the significant examples in this case (Canberra Raiders and Port Adelaide Power) have required re-brands and efforts to distance themselves from the old team to achieve that, which Redcliffe utterly refuses to do.

Bris 2 will be forced to play most of their games out of Suncorp (hopefully all of them for the foreseeable future, but that is another discussion), and because of the broadcasters Bris 2 is going to be forced to play the vast majority of their games on weeknights in primetime.

It takes roughly 40min to drive from Redcliffe to Suncorp, on a good day... During peak hour on a weeknight it would take well over an hour, and I can't imagine that public transport would be any faster. We can't get people in any other market to regularly take that time to travel to games in significant numbers, why will it be any different in Brisbane?

It almost certainly won't be any different is the answer, and when you add to that the facts that there aren't enough Dolphins fans to independently support an NRL team, let alone live up to the potential of a second Brisbane club, and that unless they are instantly successful on the pitch they'll almost certainly struggle to garner support from outside of their tradition region for the foreseeable future, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Jumping back to our analogy with Manly; if there was only one club in Sydney, let's say in the city, nobody in their right mind would put the second on the Northern Beaches (i.e. Manly), they'd put it somewhere in Western Sydney, probably the Inner West, because that's where a large population is, with a significant portion of RL fans, lots of corporate and sponsor opportunities, close to a good stadium, etc.

So if Redcliffe is Manly's equivalent, the Broncos are the city club, then what is the equivalent of the West?

That would have to be the South, specifically the region just South of the river.

The Firehawks are based in Coorparoo, in the Inner South. They've been forced by circumstance to give up their old brand that would alienate people just like the Dolphin's brand would. Though not as loaded as the Dolphins, they can more than afford to support an NRL team, and would instantly be one of the most financially stable clubs in the NRL. They've got a huge catchment and juniors nursery in the South of Brisbane and Logan to grow into, with not only the Easts Tigers, but Wynnum Manly (arguably the largest Brisbane club outside of the NRL) next door. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

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8 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

No offence, but you have an extremely surface level understanding of what's going on.

The idea that the Titans failed because of their "plastic" identity is just nonsense (which I won't go into here), and the idea that the Redcliffe Dolphins have any hope of appealing to a broader audience outside of Redcliffe and parts of Morton Bay in the short to medium term is crazy.

The analogy that often gets thrown around is that Redcliffe are Brisbane's answer to Manly, and frankly it's very accurate. Redcliffe is a tiny insular peninsula on the outskirts of Brisbane. They have a strong RL history, with lots of success, and that's lead to them not having many fans in other parts of city, if you know what I mean. They also had a reputation for not being good travelers back in the day. So yeah, very similar to Manly except for the fact that they are loaded where as Manly aren't.

Now some of that might lead you to believe that they would be a great choice for an NRL license, but stop and think about it a little deeper.

If they run with the Dolphins brand they will turn away tens of thousands of potential supporters whom have a history of competing against the Dolphins. I mean I assume from your name that you are a Hull KR fan, would you swap to Hull FC if they were promoted into a higher competition and tried to represent all of Hull?

Probably not right, nor would a significant portion of the Robins fanbase, so why would you expect any different from local fans in Brisbane, whom any new club will need significant buy in from if they are going to be successful in the NRL? There have been clubs that have been promoted from local competitions into national, or other higher competitions, that have been successful in expanding their audience in Australia, however both of the significant examples in this case (Canberra Raiders and Port Adelaide Power) have required re-brands and efforts to distance themselves from the old team to achieve that, which Redcliffe utterly refuses to do.

Bris 2 will be forced to play most of their games out of Suncorp (hopefully all of them for the foreseeable future, but that is another discussion), and because of the broadcasters Bris 2 is going to be forced to play the vast majority of their games on weeknights in primetime.

It takes roughly 40min to drive from Redcliffe to Suncorp, on a good day... During peak hour on a weeknight it would take well over an hour, and I can't imagine that public transport would be any faster. We can't get people in any other market to regularly take that time to travel to games in significant numbers, why will it be any different in Brisbane?

It almost certainly won't be any different is the answer, and when you add to that the facts that there aren't enough Dolphins fans to independently support an NRL team, let alone live up to the potential of a second Brisbane club, and that unless they are instantly successful on the pitch they'll almost certainly struggle to garner support from outside of their tradition region for the foreseeable future, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Jumping back to our analogy with Manly; if there was only one club in Sydney, let's say in the city, nobody in their right mind would put the second on the Northern Beaches (i.e. Manly), they'd put it somewhere in Western Sydney, probably the Inner West, because that's where a large population is, with a significant portion of RL fans, lots of corporate and sponsor opportunities, close to a good stadium, etc.

So if Redcliffe is Manly's equivalent, the Broncos are the city club, then what is the equivalent of the West?

That would have to be the South, specifically the region just South of the river.

The Firehawks are based in Coorparoo, in the Inner South. They've been forced by circumstance to give up their old brand that would alienate people just like the Dolphin's brand would. Though not as loaded as the Dolphins, they can more than afford to support an NRL team, and would instantly be one of the most financially stable clubs in the NRL. They've got a huge catchment and juniors nursery in the South of Brisbane and Logan to grow into, with not only the Easts Tigers, but Wynnum Manly (arguably the largest Brisbane club outside of the NRL) next door. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

Brisbane’s version of western Sydney would be the western corridor, Logan and Ipswich etc. No?

Are you not mixing the firehawks up with the jets who have changed their name from the bombers?

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22 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

No offence, but you have an extremely surface level understanding of what's going on.

The idea that the Titans failed because of their "plastic" identity is just nonsense (which I won't go into here), and the idea that the Redcliffe Dolphins have any hope of appealing to a broader audience outside of Redcliffe and parts of Morton Bay in the short to medium term is crazy.

The analogy that often gets thrown around is that Redcliffe are Brisbane's answer to Manly, and frankly it's very accurate. Redcliffe is a tiny insular peninsula on the outskirts of Brisbane. They have a strong RL history, with lots of success, and that's lead to them not having many fans in other parts of city, if you know what I mean. They also had a reputation for not being good travelers back in the day. So yeah, very similar to Manly except for the fact that they are loaded where as Manly aren't.

Now some of that might lead you to believe that they would be a great choice for an NRL license, but stop and think about it a little deeper.

If they run with the Dolphins brand they will turn away tens of thousands of potential supporters whom have a history of competing against the Dolphins. I mean I assume from your name that you are a Hull KR fan, would you swap to Hull FC if they were promoted into a higher competition and tried to represent all of Hull?

Probably not right, nor would a significant portion of the Robins fanbase, so why would you expect any different from local fans in Brisbane, whom any new club will need significant buy in from if they are going to be successful in the NRL? There have been clubs that have been promoted from local competitions into national, or other higher competitions, that have been successful in expanding their audience in Australia, however both of the significant examples in this case (Canberra Raiders and Port Adelaide Power) have required re-brands and efforts to distance themselves from the old team to achieve that, which Redcliffe utterly refuses to do.

Bris 2 will be forced to play most of their games out of Suncorp (hopefully all of them for the foreseeable future, but that is another discussion), and because of the broadcasters Bris 2 is going to be forced to play the vast majority of their games on weeknights in primetime.

It takes roughly 40min to drive from Redcliffe to Suncorp, on a good day... During peak hour on a weeknight it would take well over an hour, and I can't imagine that public transport would be any faster. We can't get people in any other market to regularly take that time to travel to games in significant numbers, why will it be any different in Brisbane?

It almost certainly won't be any different is the answer, and when you add to that the facts that there aren't enough Dolphins fans to independently support an NRL team, let alone live up to the potential of a second Brisbane club, and that unless they are instantly successful on the pitch they'll almost certainly struggle to garner support from outside of their tradition region for the foreseeable future, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Jumping back to our analogy with Manly; if there was only one club in Sydney, let's say in the city, nobody in their right mind would put the second on the Northern Beaches (i.e. Manly), they'd put it somewhere in Western Sydney, probably the Inner West, because that's where a large population is, with a significant portion of RL fans, lots of corporate and sponsor opportunities, close to a good stadium, etc.

So if Redcliffe is Manly's equivalent, the Broncos are the city club, then what is the equivalent of the West?

That would have to be the South, specifically the region just South of the river.

The Firehawks are based in Coorparoo, in the Inner South. They've been forced by circumstance to give up their old brand that would alienate people just like the Dolphin's brand would. Though not as loaded as the Dolphins, they can more than afford to support an NRL team, and would instantly be one of the most financially stable clubs in the NRL. They've got a huge catchment and juniors nursery in the South of Brisbane and Logan to grow into, with not only the Easts Tigers, but Wynnum Manly (arguably the largest Brisbane club outside of the NRL) next door. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

That’s a very long way of saying “I support Easts” mate, but appreciate the graft 

 

Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him?

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2 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Brisbane’s version of western Sydney would be the western corridor, Logan and Ipswich etc. No?

Are you not mixing the firehawks up with the jets who have changed their name from the bombers?

Nope.

Firstly Logan is south west of Brisbane, and the connection between Logan and Ipswich is tenuous except for the fact that Logan is a great juniors catchment and the Jet's have made it clear they want to claim it.

If you were to extend our Sydney analogy to Ipswich then they'd be Penrith (or the outer West more generally), except without the wealthy leagues clubs, or a ground capable of hosting NRL games, just as far away from Suncorp as Redcliffe, etc, etc.

There's potential for an NRL club in Ipswich, but it isn't ready for one now, and there's no political or social will to invest the resources necessary to make it ready to support a club any time soon.

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2 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

That’s a very long way of saying “I support Easts” mate, but appreciate the graft 

 

I don't support Easts particularly, they are just objectively the best option available of the known bids in Brisbane. If a better bid popped up tomorrow I'd back it instead.

In fact if I had my way the West Coast Pirates would get the 17th license over any of the current Brisbane bids. So if anything I "support" them, but Perth getting the 17th license isn't realistically on the table anymore.

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9 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Nope.

Firstly Logan is south west of Brisbane, and the connection between Logan and Ipswich is tenuous except for the fact that Logan is a great juniors catchment and the Jet's have made it clear they want to claim it.

If you were to extend our Sydney analogy to Ipswich then they'd be Penrith (or the outer West more generally), except without the wealthy leagues clubs, or a ground capable of hosting NRL games, just as far away from Suncorp as Redcliffe, etc, etc.

There's potential for an NRL club in Ipswich, but it isn't ready for one now, and there's no political or social will to invest the resources necessary to make it ready to support a club any time soon.

In true RL fashion nothing is straight forward. Redcliffe are probably the wealthiest club but are something like 28 miles away from suncorp stadium and would probably have to change their name to Brisbane instead of using Redcliffe or moreton bay in order to attract fans from Brisbane.

The jets are probably the least wealthiest of the clubs and like the dolphins are based some distance from suncorp stadium.

The firehawks have probably the worst name but are based in Brisbane and are quite wealthy too having teamed up with the East’s tigers.

For me I’d award the 17th NRL franchise to the firehawks and brand them as the East Brisbane firehawks. Personally I’d drop the firehawks name and just go with the hawks or in a perfect world I’d de-merge the west tigers and relocate the tigers to east Brisbane and call them the Brisbane tigers.

As for the dolphins I’d bring them into the NRL around 2030 and call them the moreton bay dolphins playing out of the dolphin oval. The western corridor could also get a team much later based out of either Logan or Ipswich as stand alone teams or a joint bid team known as the south Queensland jets/magpies or something else perhaps?

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13 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

I don't support Easts particularly, they are just objectively the best option available of the known bids in Brisbane. If a better bid popped up tomorrow I'd back it instead.

In fact if I had my way the West Coast Pirates would get the 17th license over any of the current Brisbane bids. So if anything I "support" them, but Perth getting the 17th license isn't realistically on the table anymore.

Can you see another team in south east Queensland after Brisbane2 getting into the NRL before Perth?

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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

I don't support Easts particularly, they are just objectively the best option available of the known bids in Brisbane. If a better bid popped up tomorrow I'd back it instead.

In fact if I had my way the West Coast Pirates would get the 17th license over any of the current Brisbane bids. So if anything I "support" them, but Perth getting the 17th license isn't realistically on the table anymore.

Agreed on Perth. Strategically the games’ long-term strategic interest to grow a national footprint, and tactically the fact the NRL can’t see the time-zone logic of a Perth game slotting into the east-coast TV schedules has always mystified me 

 

 

Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him?

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59 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I liked hearing what he had to say tbf. 

Nah so did I, it’s interesting. I just know there’s a lot of bias towards the East’s-backed bid, whereas my own view on all extension is it’s better grounded in something with history 

Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him?

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8 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Can you see another team in south east Queensland after Brisbane2 getting into the NRL before Perth?

With the current administration it's definitely possible that SEQ could get two more licenses before Perth gets one.

So yes it could happen, but if the NRL have any interest in what's best for the game it shouldn't even be considered.

The second Brisbane club should be the last NRL license that Qld gets for at least a couple decades,  unless something unpredictable happens like major rationalisation of Sydney or a push to a proper conference system.

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