Brisbane firehawks

[The Great Dane]

6 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Nah so did I, it’s interesting. I just know there’s a lot of bias towards the East’s-backed bid, whereas my own view on all extension is it’s better grounded in something with history 

Bias towards East's lol.

Redcliffe have basically all the media support, most fans blindly back them because they are the richest, they're the name that gets brought up most when administrators and pundits talk about expansion, etc, etc. But sure there's a lot of bias towards Easts...

You want to talk history then why don't we talk about the history of other expansion teams that have been 'grounded' in history, as you put it, and how they have gone in Australia.

Why don't we talk about the fact that there isn't one team in a major sports competition in Australia that has been successful trying to do what Redcliffe are attempting, and that's not through of lack of trying.

Why don't we talk about the struggles that the Raiders and Power have had trying to get people outside of their traditional homes to support their teams, and both of them fully rebranded which the Dolphins refuse to do. Port are currently going through an identity crisis, why don't we talk about that.

That's the thing about history; it comes with lots of baggage.

[Sports Prophet]

At the moment there are no strong bids coming out of Perth.

Whilst expansion does not require the pre-requisite of of a strong foundation in the expanded area, in Australian sport, it has been demonstrated to be a very big help. 

The NRLWA in Perth is a skeleton base with a few good individuals, but have an ageing three person board that have done nothing to increase and diversify that board, despite the WA gov’ts wishes. There is no chance of the NRL or WA gov’t to back the current NRLWA to own/manage the club. It’s simply too flimsy.

That leaves individual/s to fund a bid, which is a model that doesn’t have the greatest of histories.

You might be able to get a local, reasonable businessman to garner financial backing, but at the moment, the “power brokers” (a very loose term to describe them) in WA are too busy wallowing that V’landys doesn’t want to waste the NRL’s time on “rusted on AFL states”, rather than seeing that statement as a challenge. There are certainly a lot of benefits to having a team I. Perth. 

[unapologetic pedant]

55 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

You want to talk history then why don't we talk about the history of other expansion teams that have been 'grounded' in history, as you put it, and how they have gone in Australia.

It`s not a parallel with the Dolphins NRL bid, but just for the record, the South Melbourne Swans are an instance of an "expansion team grounded in history" who eventually proved a huge success.

[Davo5]

Anyone know the timescale of the applications,final submissions/decision ??

[The Rocket]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

It`s not a parallel with the Dolphins NRL bid, but just for the record, the South Melbourne Swans are an instance of an "expansion team grounded in history" who eventually proved a huge success.

I question just how successful Sydney Swans have actually been, especially given that they have been in Sydney for 40 years now and often will only attract 50-60 000 viewers on FTA, and if they`re not playing, a fumbleball game will rate tops 30k, often far less, so they aren`t exactly converting hoards of people over to the sport. In fact given the Storms 22 year existence I would go as far to say that they are on track to be more successful. And don`t talk to me about crowds, lots of freebies and ex-pat Melbournians and the sort of trendy crowd that could fade away pretty quickly.

Another reason I suspect their tenuity, several times in the past year or so their chairman or CEO, or whatever they have, has come out in the media expressing a fear of one P. V`landy`s and his take no prisoners attitude towards competition, in short he fears that V`landy`s won`t rest until he drives them out of Sydney.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 And don`t talk to me about crowds, lots of freebies and ex-pat Melbournians and the sort of trendy crowd that could fade away pretty quickly.

Afraid I`m going to have to flout your advice and talk about crowds. The Swans average has been 25k or more since the mid 90s. 

 

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Another reason I suspect their tenuity, several times in the past year or so their chairman or CEO, or whatever they have, has come out in the media expressing a fear of one P. V`landy`s and his take no prisoners attitude towards competition, in short he fears that V`landy`s won`t rest until he drives them out of Sydney.

 

If an AFL administrator had Frank Ponissi in a state of perpetual terror, but the Storm were averaging 25-30k at AAMI Park - I`d take that.

Everything you say about the TV ratings is true, but it only underlines the higher enthusiasm of AFL fans to leave their couches. If RL "fans" could be relied upon to attend games in similar numbers, if when they did go it was to enjoy themselves rather than as an alternative to anger management, the NRL could expand in all territories (Brisbane, Perth, NZ) with greater confidence.

[unapologetic pedant]

On 07/06/2021 at 05:04, Sports Prophet said:

At the moment there are no strong bids coming out of Perth.

If WA had even an inkling that the NRL were committed to a Perth franchise as strategically important, I reckon a strong bid would quickly and sustainably emerge.

When I think of the prospects for Perth my mind goes back to a letter published in "Rugby League Week" in 1995 from a Bulldogs fan after the Round 5 clash with the Western Reds at Parramatta which finished Bulldogs 42 Reds 0, and to which under 8k fans had shown up.

This bloke was fond of the word "dud". He labelled the match "a dud", the Western Reds a bunch of "duds" and berated the League for turning the competition into "a dud" by admitting them. They`d actually won 2 of their first 4 games at that point, and pulled healthy crowds pre News Corp pillage.

The lack of welcome or respect for new franchises among Sydney RL "fans" is the biggest obstacle to expansion. No celebration of, or commitment to, the growth of the game. PVL`s dismissal of "rusted-on AFL states" is very much in keeping.

[Mister Ting]

On 06/06/2021 at 19:01, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Brisbane’s version of western Sydney would be the western corridor, Logan and Ipswich etc. No?

Are you not mixing the firehawks up with the jets who have changed their name from the bombers?

Sorry to be pedantic and late, but Logan is in the south of Brisbane, Ipswich is more west south west.

[Mister Ting]

20 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The lack of welcome or respect for new franchises among Sydney RL "fans" is the biggest obstacle to expansion. No celebration of, or commitment to, the growth of the game. PVL`s dismissal of "rusted-on AFL states" is very much in keeping.

True, but new AFL teams get the same treatment from Melbournians, even those from traditional Aussie rules states.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

Talk on LU forum that the jets bid is in a bit of financial difficulties.

[nkpom]

On 07/06/2021 at 05:01, The Great Dane said:

Why don't we talk about the fact that there isn't one team in a major sports competition in Australia that has been successful trying to do what Redcliffe are attempting, and that's not through of lack of trying.

Port Adelaide?

[The Rocket]

14 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Talk on LU forum that the jets bid is in a bit of financial difficulties.

Sounds like a well-timed smear campaign from a rival bidder perhaps.

[Omott91]

On 07/06/2021 at 17:19, Davo5 said:

Anyone know the timescale of the applications,final submissions/decision ??

Bid applications are to be submitted by 5pm Monday 14th June.

  If the bid numbers stack up financially, it's expected an announcement will come at the end of July. 

[The Rocket]

It`s such a bad look bringing in another Queensland team when the existing three are doing so poorly. 

For a brief while there a couple of weeks ago I thought the Titans and the Cowboys were going to make a run, it would look so much better if they were in the top eight when they are bringing in another team.

Theoretically of course it shouldn`t matter where the existing Queensland teams are coming, but perceptions do matter and I hope the NRL aren`t spooked enough to put the whole thing on hold. We need at least one more team out of Brisbane for starters.

 

[Pulga]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

It`s such a bad look bringing in another Queensland team when the existing three are doing so poorly. 

For a brief while there a couple of weeks ago I thought the Titans and the Cowboys were going to make a run, it would look so much better if they were in the top eight when they are bringing in another team.

Theoretically of course it shouldn`t matter were the existing Queensland teams are coming, but perceptions do matter and I hope the NRL aren`t spooked enough to put the whole thing on hold. We need at least one more team out of Brisbane for starters.

 

I don't agree. I think the Broncos and Cowboys are reaping poor backroom decisions while the Titans are on an upswing. 

There's just as many poor Sydney teams.

[DlEHARD]

Origin 1 proves to me that Queensland desperately needs more NRL clubs. NSW has 10 and you could basically include the Raiders as well.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

It`s such a bad look bringing in another Queensland team when the existing three are doing so poorly. 

For a brief while there a couple of weeks ago I thought the Titans and the Cowboys were going to make a run, it would look so much better if they were in the top eight when they are bringing in another team.

Theoretically of course it shouldn`t matter were the existing Queensland teams are coming, but perceptions do matter and I hope the NRL aren`t spooked enough to put the whole thing on hold. We need at least one more team out of Brisbane for starters.

 

On top of Queensland getting a good hiding in game 1 of state of origin.

I don’t think people will be too worried about this is as this is the cyclical nature of RL and sport in general. 
 

RL in Queensland is proven to be strong in recent times both on and off the pitch in terms of successful winning teams, big crowds, producing players, world class stadia and media coverage etc.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

1 minute ago, DlEHARD said:

Origin 1 proves to me that Queensland desperately needs more NRL clubs. NSW has 10 and you could basically include the Raiders as well.

It’s a no-brainer for me. Especially considering the fast growing population trends projected for the south east Queensland region.

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, Pulga said:

I don't agree. I think the Broncos and Cowboys are reaping poor backroom decisions while the Titans are on an upswing. 

There's just as many poor Sydney teams.

Fundamentally I agree, given the area they draw players from I can`t see the Cowboys being down too long. I think I saw that while most NRL teams run 1 or 2 teams in either the NSW or QLD cups, I think the Cowboys run at least three.

25 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

On top of Queensland getting a good hiding in game 1 of state of origin.

I don’t think people will be too worried about this is as this is the cyclical nature of RL and sport in general. 
 

RL in Queensland is proven to be strong in recent times both on and off the pitch in terms of successful winning teams, big crowds, producing players, world class stadia and media coverage etc.

Don`t  get me wrong, I`m all for it, I just hope the NRL don`t squib it due to fears of having potentially four QLD teams not in the eight.

I suppose the point Diehard makes is certainly the best case scenario, more QLD clubs means more players developed. I just figure that if there are any talented juniors to picked up in the new teams catchments they would be getting picked already. Having said that I suppose a new club with all the resources that an NRL club brings may be able to develop players that other wise may have slipped through the net.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

6 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Fundamentally I agree, given the area they draw players from I can`t see the Cowboys being down too long. I think I saw that while most NRL teams run 1 or 2 teams in either the NSW or QLD cups, I think the Cowboys run at least three.

Don`t  get me wrong, I`m all for it, I just hope the NRL don`t squib it due to fears of having potentially four QLD teams not in the eight.

I suppose the point Diehard makes is certainly the best case scenario, more QLD clubs means more players developed. I just figure that if there are any talented juniors to picked up in the new teams catchments they would be getting picked already. Having said that I suppose a new club with all the resources that an NRL club brings may be able to develop players that other wise may have slipped through the net.

I think the potential revenue of Brisbane2 will more than ease any nerves or doubts. Even more so if the 17th NRL franchise has to pay a license fee.

[The Great Dane]

On 07/06/2021 at 15:04, unapologetic pedant said:

It`s not a parallel with the Dolphins NRL bid, but just for the record, the South Melbourne Swans are an instance of an "expansion team grounded in history" who eventually proved a huge success.

Yeah not comparable at all considering that nobody in Sydney could have cared less about the Swans history... They may as well have been a brand new team to 75% of the population north of the barassi line when they first relocated, and even then it took almost going broke a couple of times, having the whole comp rigged in their favour, and generational change before they were really accepted in Sydney. The NRL can't afford to wait a generation or two for the second Brisbane club to be a success.

My favorite example is the Tuggeranong/Canberra Vikings, because it's an almost exact parallel to the Dolphins and they are local so I have first hand experience with them. They tried and failed to launch 'Canberra' teams in higher competitions three times, and it's because by keeping the Vikings brand they alienated every non-Vikings fan in the ACT RU community, people whose support they needed to make the teams a success. There's even easily accessible evidence of the backlash from the last time they tried it, which isn't the case in most other examples because they happened pre-internet.

It's also interesting to juxtapose their failure to the Queanbeyan Blues/Canberra Raiders success. The significant difference between the two was the Raiders took a neutral brand, which placated people whom weren't exactly fans of the Blues (including myself), where the Vikings tried to push through with the "history and tradition" of their brand and only succeeded in ####### off everybody who has a history and tradition of hating the Vikings.

On 11/06/2021 at 23:31, nkpom said:

Port Adelaide?

Already talked about them.

If the Dolphins are any hope of being a success in Brisbane then they'll have to follow the Port Adelaide/Canberra Raiders model, which means a full rebrand to distance themselves from the old club, but the Dolphins are refusing to do that.

Even with their rebrand the Power have traditionally struggled to attract a broader audience and are one of the smaller and financially weaker sides in the AFL (you see a similar thing in the Raiders, though broadly speaking the Raiders have handled it better, and they have no direct competition like Port do in the Crows). They are also currently going through an identity crisis because of moves to incorporate more of their old brand, specifically the jersey and colours, into the new club, which is having knock on effects in their fan base.

[The Great Dane]

10 hours ago, DlEHARD said:

Origin 1 proves to me that Queensland desperately needs more NRL clubs. NSW has 10 and you could basically include the Raiders as well.

There isn't really anywhere in Queensland outside of the Brisbane Metropolitan Area that could realistically support an NRL side that doesn't already have one, and until some of the outer regions like Ipswich, Logan, and Morton Bay are more developed and have better infrastructure (which will probably take decades) placing more than two teams in Brisbane would suffer severely from diminishing returns and just be risking oversaturation similar to that in Sydney.

The Sunshine Coast is the possible exception, but again they'd need significant investment into infrastructure (namely stadium and public transport) before it'd be feasible, and more likely than not would end up as the Titans 2.0.

It'd also be very hard to justify Brisbane 3 or the Sunshine Coast over bigger more lucrative markets like WA or SA. Then again the current NRL administration doesn't seem to care about real growth or investment in the future, so maybe that wouldn't be a factor.

[The Great Dane]

On 11/06/2021 at 18:04, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Talk on LU forum that the jets bid is in a bit of financial difficulties.

Nobody outside of the Jets bid and the NRL actually know what their financials are like, however the Bombers had pretty reasonable backing pre-covid, so you'd imagine that they'd at least have similar.

Until more detail comes out about the bid it's just media noise.