Women's Challenge Cup - Both games live on BBC Red Button/Website

[fighting irish]

i just wanted to add my two-pennorth on these games.

I was really impressed, by the high level of skill, the speed of the games (and the players) and the durability and the unrelenting focus (concentration), that the ladies brought to bear, throughout.

The ferocity of some of the tackles (fair tackles) was, without wishing to sound patronising, quite surprising and one or two of them, made me (and the commentators) gasp, and then anxiously wait for the arrival of the stretcher (which never materialised).

A very enjoyable afternoons sport.

In summary, it was very entertaining, eminently worthy of national television coverage, a great advert for the game and a whole new 'genre' to fascinate rugby league fans everywhere.

What can we do, to get more of it on the tele? 

[unapologetic pedant]

4 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

i just wanted to add my two-pennorth on these games.

I was really impressed, by the high level of skill, the speed of the games (and the players) and the durability and the unrelenting focus (concentration), that the ladies brought to bear, throughout.

For perspective, I would recommend you check out some of last week`s NSW City v Country game at Bankwest. It`s on the NSWRL Facebook page. You`ll notice a significant contrast from the two games yesterday.

Don`t get me wrong, I enjoy watching the women`s game over here, and comparisons are not always reliable. But my guess, based on what I`ve seen, is that we are a very long way behind the Aussies and Kiwis.

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

For perspective, I would recommend you check out some of last week`s NSW City v Country game at Bankwest. It`s on the NSWRL Facebook page. You`ll notice a significant contrast from the two games yesterday.

Don`t get me wrong, I enjoy watching the women`s game over here, and comparisons are not always reliable. But my guess, based on what I`ve seen, is that we are a very long way behind the Aussies and Kiwis.

Without looking, I'm willing to accept your opinion of the gulf in class, between our girls and the antipodeans.

C'est la vie.

Twas ever thus, my friend.

I will look though, it was really entertaining and I'd like to see more. 

[RigbyLuger]

Saw an interview with Jodie Cunningham on Twitter. What a great asset to the sport! So excited about being in a cup final, speaks well and such infectious personality. Good player too.

[moorside roughyed]

Just watched both games on catch up. Cracking games, a real good advert for the women's game. The players played with great passion and will to win. I'm going watching England at the Halliwell Jones at the end of June, this includes watching the England women. Looking forward to after what I saw today.

[David Dockhouse Host]

On 22/05/2021 at 17:30, unapologetic pedant said:

The back-to-one after the charge down of a kick rule that strongly discourages defenders from playing at the ball, so that they instead aim at the kicker, is a hobby-horse of mine. 

There are legitimate views either way about it`s wider sense. But purely in the context of injury risk, it`s astonishing that "physios, coaches and players" don`t at least canvass opinion on the benefits to player welfare of changing it.

I suggested a few years ago that a re gather from a charge down should remain at last tackle rather than start again

[unapologetic pedant]

4 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

I suggested a few years ago that a re gather from a charge down should remain at last tackle rather than start again

We did a whole thread on this a while back. 

It`s off topic but... - central to the case for change is that since charging down a kick is exempt from the knock-on rule it`s logically consistent to also exempt a charge down from the "played-at, back to one" rule.

Indeed, there`s an absurd paradox in the current position. We accept that regarding a charge down as a knock-on would all but remove it from the game, yet by going back to one on the tackle count we have all but removed it from the game. 

And one of the consequences is that kick pressure is routinely, and sometimes dangerously, applied by attacking the player not the ball.

In RU, it`s irrelevant whether a player is deemed to have played at the ball. Likewise in pre-1966 RL. In both cases it would simply restart a period of unlimited possession.

This rule is an over half a century old anachronism. Yet nobody in RL administration even considers changing it.

[gingerjon]

13 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Saw an interview with Jodie Cunningham on Twitter. What a great asset to the sport! So excited about being in a cup final, speaks well and such infectious personality. Good player too.

She's definitely a good one. Also, like a lot of the best people we have in the media eye, she's good at drawing in the whole game (community, PDRL etc) without seeming like she's reading from a crib sheet.

[fighting irish]

17 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

For perspective, I would recommend you check out some of last week`s NSW City v Country game at Bankwest. It`s on the NSWRL Facebook page. You`ll notice a significant contrast from the two games yesterday.

Don`t get me wrong, I enjoy watching the women`s game over here, and comparisons are not always reliable. But my guess, based on what I`ve seen, is that we are a very long way behind the Aussies and Kiwis.

I just thought I'd mention (because I know you would have noticed) that at least 50% (estimated) of the play the balls were the new ''rollball'' style, which referees don't take a blind bit of notice of these days.

It wants fixing.

You should organise a petition (and get as many signatures as possible) to the RL on both the issues mentioned in this thread namely, the embarrassing ''rollball'' fiasco and the ''charge down, back to one'' spoiler. 

[unapologetic pedant]

8 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I just thought I'd mention (because I know you would have noticed) that at least 50% (estimated) of the play the balls were the new ''rollball'' style, which referees don't take a blind bit of notice of these days.

The Saints/Leeds game was worse than usual, in that the ref twice penalised a player who played the ball with her foot but it didn`t go entirely smoothly. This is precisely what the "genuine attempt" exoneration was brought in for - to give honest players a bit of latitude, and dissuade refs from being too fussy.

It`s this dispensation UK players have exploited to turn the PTB into a rollball.

So now we`ve reached the shameful position where the RFL`s rulebook and guidelines require a "genuine attempt to play the ball with the foot", yet conscientious players who abide by that rule are more likely to be pulled up than the cheating rollballers.

The message the ref was giving on Saturday was that chucking the ball between your legs was the safest way to avoid sanction.

And I`ll ask again - What will the rule be at the World Cup?

[fighting irish]

14 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The Saints/Leeds game was worse than usual, in that the ref twice penalised a player who played the ball with her foot but it didn`t go entirely smoothly. This is precisely what the "genuine attempt" exoneration was brought in for - to give honest players a bit of latitude, and dissuade refs from being too fussy.

It`s this dispensation UK players have exploited to turn the PTB into a rollball.

So now we`ve reached the shameful position where the RFL`s rulebook and guidelines require a "genuine attempt to play the ball with the foot", yet conscientious players who abide by that rule are more likely to be pulled up than the cheating rollballers.

The message the ref was giving on Saturday was that chucking the ball between your legs was the safest way to avoid sanction.

And I`ll ask again - What will the rule be at the World Cup?

I noticed the two penalties for the ball (played with the foot) going askew, while the rollball's were ignored. My brother and I had a big discussion about it.

Get the petition going, (i would but don't know how to do it). 

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

And I`ll ask again - What will the rule be at the World Cup?

I hope it is the requirement to play the ball correctly. 

It is hardly a skill that takes an age to perfect... funnily enough one of the few players to play the ball correctly in Super League is Jack Welsby who is one of the very few to be penalised for an incorrect play the ball. He literally changed immediately. 

One of the most frustrating parts to all this is that it would be such an easy thing to fix.

[unapologetic pedant]

22 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I hope it is the requirement to play the ball correctly. 

It`s unlikely anything will be publicly stated beforehand, so we`ll find out during England/Samoa, when presumably the ref will not be English.

Either all the English players will start playing the ball correctly, in which case we`ll know the rollball is illegal for the WC. Or English players will be allowed to use the rollball by a non-English ref. Which will only happen if Aussie, Kiwi, and French refs are prevailed upon not to enforce the rules as they would back home. This would also tell us a lot about Australian attitudes to international RL, since they would never tolerate the rollball in their domestic game.

The pre-season Catalans/Elite 1 selection game earlier this year proved that the French will succumb to RFL pressure. In Elite 1 the refs enforce the PTB rules probably more rigorously than the Aussies. Any failure to play the ball with the foot instantly produces the scoop signal for rollball and a penalty.

Yet against the Catalans all the Elite 1 players used the rollball. They, and the ref, had clearly been told the game would be played under RFL secret rules not Rugby League rules.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I noticed the two penalties for the ball (played with the foot) going askew, while the rollball's were ignored. My brother and I had a big discussion about it.

The reason for this is clear when you watch the RFL`s video on this year`s new rules. There is no longer a requirement to make any attempt to play the ball with the foot. All that`s necessary is "balance and control". And they show a clip of a rollball as a specific example of how to meet the criteria. The RFL have legalised the rollball. 

So if you try to play the ball with the foot, but without sufficient "balance and control", you will be penalised. Whereas if you roll the ball under your foot or through your legs with sufficient "balance and control" that`s now legal.

When this has been addressed on other threads it`s amazing to me how many people still think the rollballs are just poor attempts or the refs have all gone rogue or lack courage and consistency. I reiterate - The rollball is officially legal in the UK.

[Dunbar]

23 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

This would also tell us a lot about Australian attitudes to international RL, since they would never tolerate the rollball in their domestic game.

For 35 years I have been frustrated with Kangaroo coaches looking to influence referees and set the agenda on interpretation pre test matches.  This is one time where I would welcome it.

[Scubby]

I have thoroughly enjoyed the women's games that have been streamed so far. There are a few good individual players within each team and I hope they can come together in time for the World Cup. It is going to be really tough for them to compete with the best. The standard of the Jillaroos and Kiwi Ferns is extremely high - especially given the number of high profile fixtures they have played in recent years.