Academy Licensing (2022 - 27) - (Merged threads)

[paulwalker71]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Because Bradford, like Cas and KR, can turn around and say come play for us.

This isn't a criticism of Bradford's academy, clearly there is some very good work going on there. From the RFLs perspective though, is it better that work goes into the full time top tier environment or into the second division? Bearing in mind they are funding these to a significant extent and there are clearly major budget pressures.

So, we are being permanently cast as a 'second division' team? Have the RFL now decreed that Wakefield are 'top tier' in perpetuity, whereas Bradford are 'second tier'? 

The questions aren't really aimed at you Tommy, but I think the RFL need to come clean on this. I would think that Castleford would be even more devastated, given that Wakefield have been handed a license.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, LeytherRob said:

 

 

So they can have an academy then, glad we cleared that up.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

This is great in theory but doesn't work in practice. The RFL have done similar to this before - they funded Midlands and Cumbria and it didn't work well - the RFL are not suited to running academies. You need clubs driving this and standards - they're incentivised (or should be) to create pathways to their first team, get players learning systems and structures at the club to ready themselves for first team footy. You can't do that at regional academies. 

And if you let clubs do their own thing, you get a free for all and weakening standards. 

It should be noted that the Premier League did a similar process recently with their academies to drive standards

Indeed, which is why League 1 Sunderland have a Premier League 2 academy side, but Leeds United didn't until they invested millions into the set up for this season.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, paulwalker71 said:

So, we are being permanently cast as a 'second division' team? Have the RFL now decreed that Wakefield are 'top tier' in perpetuity, whereas Bradford are 'second tier'? 

The questions aren't really aimed at you Tommy, but I think the RFL need to come clean on this. I would think that Castleford would be even more devastated, given that Wakefield have been handed a license.

No, they've just handed them a license for the next few years to run an elite division academy. I'm pretty sure that will be subject to review and targets too. I really don't think its that deep.

I can get the frustration Paul. In fairness, Wakefield may have just had a better proposal than Cas. Of late, they've certainly had a good record of getting juniors into the first team. Without seeing the detail they might have said they will scout more dynamically such as in South Yorkshire or RU. With the ground redevelopment going ahead too for Wakefield (don't laugh), things are looking up.

[Trojan Horse]

14 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

So, we are being permanently cast as a 'second division' team? Have the RFL now decreed that Wakefield are 'top tier' in perpetuity, whereas Bradford are 'second tier'? 

The questions aren't really aimed at you Tommy, but I think the RFL need to come clean on this. I would think that Castleford would be even more devastated, given that Wakefield have been handed a license.

I think the point has been missed entirely. It’s not a case if Wakefield have been given a licence over Castleford. It’s that Wakefield have met the Elite criteria with their application and Castleford for whatever reason haven’t.

The other clubs that haven’t got a licence for a Elite have nobody to blue but themselves. 
 

While Wakefield have improvements to make in other areas there has been a lot of investment in the academy and community side in recent years. The club were very disappointed by all accounts not to have been given a Elite license in 2017 and have obviously been preparing for this round of Elite licenses efficiently. 

The clubs who didn’t meet the standard this time need to do the same as what Wakefield did and work towards the next round.

 

[LeytherRob]

 

12 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

So, we are being permanently cast as a 'second division' team? Have the RFL now decreed that Wakefield are 'top tier' in perpetuity, whereas Bradford are 'second tier'? 

Welcome to our world...

[LeytherRob]

This decision also creates further imbalance in the salary cap

[LeytherRob]

21 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

So they can have an academy then, glad we cleared that up.

and how exactly would you propose a club can turn a single age group college team into a player pathway?

[Trojan Horse]

4 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

This decision also creates further imbalance in the salary cap

I think that would still apply for players contracted to first team who come through a clubs academy regardless of if the hold the Elite title.

 

[daz39]

Some people seem to think that a good academy is based solely on the amount of 1st team players produced in the last 20 years, that is only a part of what is required, player development and education as well as the impact ont eh community game are also huge factors.

[LeytherRob]

Just now, Trojan Horse said:

I think that would still apply for players contracted to first team who come through a clubs academy regardless of if the hold the Elite title.

 

How many players do you think will get to SL through a local college league?

[north yorks trinity]

Absolutely chuffed to bits for Wakefield with this news.  I really feared for our future if we hadn't been judged to have got a good enough case.  Those with limited knowledge of the club are always quick to use Wakey as an example of all that is bad with the game and would be happy to see the back of us and I think this decision is vindication for the huge amount of productive hard work that the club put in. Hopefully it may encourage some to revise their view?!?

I'm also very pleased that Wakefield didn't gain their place at the expense of someone else as there was one "heartland" place unfilled had a good enough bid come in from elsewhere. That said, I'm actually really disappointed for the clubs that missed out and they and their supporters have my sympathy.

[Tommygilf]

19 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

and how exactly would you propose a club can turn a single age group college team into a player pathway?

Invest in and promote from the Cat3 team. Single age groups aren't vastly different from how normal academies work. 

The statement also includes details of a reserve grade too.

[Tommygilf]

22 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

How many players do you think will get to SL through a local college league?

Considering the standard of that competition is likely to go up as a direct result of this, then probably a fair few. 

[LeytherRob]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Invest in and promote from the Cat3 team. Single age groups aren't vastly different from how normal academies work. 

The statement also includes details of a reserve grade too.

The college leagues are of a lower standard than the amateur game, they couldn't be more different from a multi age group elite set up.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, LeytherRob said:

The college leagues are of a lower standard than the amateur game, they couldn't be more different from a multi age group elite set up.

Good enough for plenty of clubs. But if they had higher aspirations there were two more slots available here.

[Mumby Magic]

So please can someone answer. Does this mean that if a club wants run an academy the RFL won't allow it?

[LeytherRob]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Good enough for plenty of clubs. But if they had higher aspirations there were two more slots available here.

They do have higher aspirations, that's why applications were made. Without and published feedback or criteria for the judgements everyone is just guessing as to why they've only awarded 10. It is quite funny seeing the same people on this forum who lost their collective minds at the decision to promote Leigh suddenly having full faith in the processes now though.

[LeytherRob]

7 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

So please can someone answer. Does this mean that if a club wants run an academy the RFL won't allow it?

Essentially yes, certainly when you put it in terms of what people would consider a 'proper' academy that runs from scholarship to open age. Clubs can still attach their name to the local college team to focus on education if they choose.

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

So please can someone answer. Does this mean that if a club wants run an academy the RFL won't allow it?

Not in the RFL funded elite league. 

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

They do have higher aspirations, that's why applications were made. Without and published feedback or criteria for the judgements everyone is just guessing as to why they've only awarded 10. It is quite funny seeing the same people on this forum who lost their collective minds at the decision to promote Leigh suddenly having full faith in the processes now though.

There were/are 2 spots available. 

This is the first time I've ever seen an RFL process where they have genuinely applied standards and said "nope, there's not enough to meet the criteria so we'll leave the last two."

Its also quite clearly a rationalisation dictated by player availability and financial resources.

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

So please can someone answer. Does this mean that if a club wants run an academy the RFL won't allow it?

As an example, last November, Gloucestershire All Golds announced an academy partnership. That's not mentioned today but still seems to be going.

So the answer is yes, but it's just not part of the 'official' set up and so, on the one hand, doesn't have to meet RFL minimum standards and, on the other, can act in ways that may be more agreeable to the club than following the RFL rules.

[Mumby Magic]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

As an example, last November, Gloucestershire All Golds announced an academy partnership. That's not mentioned today but still seems to be going.

So the answer is yes, but it's just not part of the 'official' set up and so, on the one hand, doesn't have to meet RFL minimum standards and, on the other, can act in ways that may be more agreeable to the club than following the RFL rules.

How will this affect Cas, Bradford etc

[LeytherRob]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There were/are 2 spots available. 

This is the first time I've ever seen an RFL process where they have genuinely applied standards and said "nope, there's not enough to meet the criteria so we'll leave the last two."

Its also quite clearly a rationalisation dictated by player availability and financial resources.

If it's dictated by player availability and financial resources(probably the key factor here considering RFL is still trying to secure funding from the new TV deal), then what hope could clubs possibly have to get those final 2 spots?

[LeytherRob]

5 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

How will this affect Cas, Bradford etc

Any players currently in scholarship will have to find themselves new clubs for next year or go back to the amateur game