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Academy Licensing (2022 - 27) - (Merged threads)


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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Wakey's Cat3 seems to work quite well is all, just wondering what the difference is/was.

You mean Wakefield who were awarded a cat 1 license in 2017? They were never denied a license, just graded as 'requires improvement' the same as Bradford.

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Just now, LeytherRob said:

You mean Wakefield who were awarded a cat 1 license in 2017? They were never denied a license, just graded as 'requires improvement' the same as Bradford.

Screenshot_20210523-105238_OneDrive.jpg

From Wakey fans I've spoken to they've used their Cat3 links with the College to actually boost that. Facilities etc.

Shocking though really that Wakefield were able to turn that around and yet other clubs couldn't reach the standards.

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

From Wakey fans I've spoken to they've used their Cat3 links with the College to actually boost that. Facilities etc.

Shocking though really that Wakefield were able to turn that around and yet other clubs couldn't reach the standards.

Yeah and as I've said repeatedly, cat 3 can work well in conjunction with a Cat 1 to good effect, but is not a good replacement. They certainly won't have blooded the players coming through in those leagues, they would be playing in the proper SL academy league.

We don't know what clubs did or didn't hit yet because the gradings haven't been formally released yet. We don't even know what criteria they were judged against because the notion of geographical footprint in relation to neighboring clubs is new.

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27 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

A Carvell tweet has got his facts wrong on this thread already. 

Wakefield were rejected last time, and have worked to improve to now have a license granted. 

Not good for a union leader to spout off without the full facts.

Too much emotion is being added to this debate. Clubs don't have to sack players or coaches if they're doing a good job, they can spend less on imports in their squads, but choose not to.

 

And George Flanagan is one of the last people in the sport I'm going to put any stock in their opinions, as his actions on the field suggest.

Edited by RigbyLuger
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2 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Yeah and as I've said repeatedly, cat 3 can work well in conjunction with a Cat 1 to good effect, but is not a good replacement. They certainly won't have blooded the players coming through in those leagues, they would be playing in the proper SL academy league.

We don't know what clubs did or didn't hit yet because the gradings haven't been formally released yet. We don't even know what criteria they were judged against because the notion of geographical footprint in relation to neighboring clubs is new.

According to Carvell he erronously believes he was competing with non-heartland clubs. I agree its different for clubs who haven't had a cat1 academy before now to those that have, but ultimately both those positions have been unsuccessful.

Wasn't he involved in Salford's academy before their demise? 

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15 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Up to 9 spots were open for heartland sides. Up to 2 for basically London and Newcastle, and up to one French side.

No heartland club has lost out due to a non-heartland club.

Clutching at straws to be pasting what is clearly an opinion based tweet as evidence of him being proved infactual. In any case, there are 4 less heartland academies than in 2017 when the last judgments were made, so it's not unreasonable for him to believe the heartland clubs are paying the price.

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

According to Carvell he erronously believes he was competing with non-heartland clubs. I agree its different for clubs who haven't had a cat1 academy before now to those that have, but ultimately both those positions have been unsuccessful.

Wasn't he involved in Salford's academy before their demise? 

And you believed wakefield didn't have a cat 1 academy before this set of licenses, does that make everything you say wrong now too? 

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1 minute ago, LeytherRob said:

Clutching at straws to be pasting what is clearly an opinion based tweet as evidence of him being proved infactual. In any case, there are 4 less heartland academies than in 2017 when the last judgments were made, so it's not unreasonable for him to believe the heartland clubs are paying the price.

I mean I said he's put out clearly incorrect things on twitter and provided evidence of that.

What you and he say would be true if all 9 Heartland spots were taken up. They weren't.

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5 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

And you believed wakefield didn't have a cat 1 academy before this set of licenses, does that make everything you say wrong now too? 

Oh jesus have a sit down.

I'm not responsible for a club's academy sector.

Edited by Tommygilf
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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I mean I said he's put out clearly incorrect things on twitter and provided evidence of that.

What you and he say would be true if all 9 Heartland spots were taken up. They weren't.

You used what is clearly his opinion, whether you agree with it or not, it to try and discredit the direct answers he gave specific to the application he was directly involved in. There is a big difference between him claiming the RFL told him they were picking expansion over heartland(which he didn't) and making straightforward answers such as feedback provided on the bid(geographical location to neighbors) or money involved(£0). Now maybe in time when full judgements are released that will turn out to be a lie, but him having an opinion I disagree with doesn't instantly discount everything else he said. Just like I'm not going to discount everything you've said just because you incorrectly claimed Wakefield only had a cat 3 academy.

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11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I mean I said he's put out clearly incorrect things on twitter and provided evidence of that.

What you and he say would be true if all 9 Heartland spots were taken up. They weren't.

Until they release the criteria and full judgements no one on this thread can say with any certainty why the spots weren't filled. 

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1 minute ago, LeytherRob said:

 

You used what is clearly his opinion, whether you agree with it or not, it to try and discredit the direct answers he gave specific to the application he was directly involved in. There is a big difference between him claiming the RFL told him they were picking expansion over heartland(which he didn't) and making straightforward answers such as feedback provided on the bid(geographical location to neighbors) or money involved(£0). Now maybe in time when full judgements are released that will turn out to be a lie, but him having an opinion I disagree with doesn't instantly discount everything else he said. Just like I'm not going to discount everything you've said just because you incorrectly claimed Wakefield only had a cat 3 academy.

He's throwing his toys out of the pram. Seen and heard it all before.

9 heartlands spots were available, only 7 applications were deemed up to standard. That has nothing to do with London, Catalans and Newcastle getting their 3 spots.

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Just now, LeytherRob said:

Until they release the criteria and full judgements no one on this thread can say with any certainty why the spots weren't filled. 

We can say that its nothing to do with non heartland clubs though.

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As usual we’re seeing players/officials/etc spout out stuff on Twitter before all details are revealed - the best thing they can do is hold their water. Clubs should reel them in a bit, leave the ranting to us fans 😜

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4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

He's throwing his toys out of the pram. Seen and heard it all before.

9 heartlands spots were available, only 7 applications were deemed up to standard. That has nothing to do with London, Catalans and Newcastle getting their 3 spots.

Maybe, but again, he's clearly presenting it an opinion rather than a straight fact.Ironic you want to try and use an infactual opinion to claim he can't be trusted to present straight facts to direct questions about his bid after you just gleefully claimed Wakefield only have a cat 3 academy as proof the college system works.  When clearly they don't and it doesn't.

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17 hours ago, del capo said:

Having an Academy gets you most of the best players but the average 20 year old is miles off Super League.

The game via the RFL recognised that when it promoted Reserves but the  SL Cubs effectively rejected that in favour of loan arrangements etc on cost grounds.

That's one of the many fixes the game needs to provide a proper individual and club pathway.

Would be interesting to see the figures on just how many academy products make it to SL, how many go to Champ/L1, how many return to the community game & how many stop playing completely. (unfortunately my gut feeling is that the biggest proportion of the 4 groups is the lost to the game category.)

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Just now, LeytherRob said:

Maybe, but again, he's clearly presenting it an opinion rather than a straight fact.Ironic you want to try and use an infactual opinion to claim he can't be trusted to present straight facts to direct questions about his bid after you just gleefully claimed Wakefield only have a cat 3 academy as proof the college system works.  When clearly they don't and it doesn't.

Are you suggesting he doesn't believe his own opinion as right?

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Just now, dead man inc said:

Would be interesting to see the figures on just how many academy products make it to SL, how many go to Champ/L1, how many return to the community game & how many stop playing completely. (unfortunately my gut feeling is that the biggest proportion of the 4 groups is the lost to the game category.)

It would depend on the timescale as a fair few do go to the lower divisions for a bit, but many even then will be in your latter category within 5 years of leaving the u18s.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Are you suggesting he doesn't believe his own opinion as right?

Opinions are subjective by their nature. That's what opinions are. Presenting an opinion is different to presenting a fact, it's what you believe, not what happened. He believes heartland clubs have been unfairly affected, he states that the feedback given was geography based, he states that there wasn't money at stake in the bid process and it was about participation.  You believe the college system is an acceptable substitute, you stated that Wakefield don't have a cat 1 academy. See the difference?

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It would depend on the timescale as a fair few do go to the lower divisions for a bit, but many even then will be in your latter category within 5 years of leaving the u18s.

And don't forget the fifth group - those that go to lower level RU clubs for a hundred quid a week.

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1 minute ago, del capo said:

And don't forget the fifth group - those that go to lower level RU clubs for a hundred quid a week.

Does that happen much ‘up north’ ?

I know down south they can (& do) earn a lot more in RU Champ/nat1 etc than they do playing league.

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3 minutes ago, dead man inc said:

Does that happen much ‘up north’ ?

I know down south they can (& do) earn a lot more in RU Champ/nat1 etc than they do playing league.

Yes.

 For instance Community Board member Stuart Prior's son  an ex Wigan Academy player switched from St Pats to Preston Grasshoppers.

And anyone from Hull will tell you how the Ionians keep up their playing standards.

Even in my day Lymm RU would send a taxi to Wigan to collect Derek Birchall an iconic teacher / RL guru every saturday.......

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17 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Opinions are subjective by their nature. That's what opinions are. Presenting an opinion is different to presenting a fact, it's what you believe, not what happened. He believes heartland clubs have been unfairly affected, he states that the feedback given was geography based, he states that there wasn't money at stake in the bid process and it was about participation.  You believe the college system is an acceptable substitute, you stated that Wakefield don't have a cat 1 academy. See the difference?

My opinion is he is throwing his toys out of the pram.

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31 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As usual we’re seeing players/officials/etc spout out stuff on Twitter before all details are revealed - the best thing they can do is hold their water. Clubs should reel them in a bit, leave the ranting to us fans 😜

I was thinking this earlier that it's another example of really poor message control from the RFL.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

I was thinking this earlier that it's another example of really poor message control from the RFL.

Indeed! I can think of a fair few over the past 6 months!

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  • Glensider changed the title to RL decision on Academies
  • John Drake changed the title to Academy Licensing (2022 - 27) - (Merged threads)

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