BJW Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, westlondonfan said: The thing is, that both on and off the pitch, things were improving at Trailfinders. Cynically I remember being told the same at the move from Chiswick to Crystal Palace as things had improved so much! As for Trailfinders, would it be approved by RFU if Ealing were to be the promoted side? My wife complains I selfishly stop her fulfilling her true ambition - she really wants to be a rich widow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronicler of Chiswick Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, BJW said: Cynically I remember being told the same at the move from Chiswick to Crystal Palace as things had improved so much! As for Trailfinders, would it be approved by RFU if Ealing were to be the promoted side? Apparently Trailfinders have been told that the ground in its present form is not acceptable for top flight RU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic XIII Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 37 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said: Apparently Trailfinders have been told that the ground in its present form is not acceptable for top flight RU. RU is a serious sport played across the nation where they are in a position to lay down minimum standards. RL is played seriously in a few parts of the north of England and a pocket of London, and as they say beggars cant be choosers. MoK turning up for the odd Broncos games at Plough Lane as it's on his doorstep hardly justifies the lock stock move from Trailfinders given the current state of the Broncos on and off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Click Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, westlondonfan said: How often do you go to the Broncos home matches? Quite often, I've been to both since we've been allowed back to matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Click said: Were they though? Trailfinders still isn't a ground for a professional team in any sport imo. Don’t a second tier Union side play there also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmon Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I think long standng supporters would have been more amicable to the move if they had not put ticket prices up so much to £25. This is the key killer, basically we have the worst squad I can remember, a ground which is not easy to get to with no parking, and a huge increase in ticket prices to watch it. What will be interesting would be how many home many fans in the first couple of games actually pay full price for the tickets vs discounts / special offers. But as it is I and most other lasped ST holders from last year are just not going to pay 25GBP for the product on offer, even if they played the games at Twickenham or wembley. The quality on the pitch and the squad assembled are just not worth it.. As I said before, ticket prices should have been 18GBP in champ, and only 25GBP once in SL.... That would have avoided a lot of the bad blood which has come this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 17 hours ago, Magic XIII said: MoK turning up for the odd Broncos games at Plough Lane as it's on his doorstep hardly justifies the lock stock move from Trailfinders given the current state of the Broncos on and off the field. I live in Tunbridge Wells! And it's probably quicker to get to Trailfinders in the car (and park within two minutes walk) than get the train to Plough Lane. The main reason I don't go to Ealing is because I hate that Broncos play in what is essentially a provincial club rugby union recreation ground in a Middlesex suburb. It's so small time, you kind of feel like a loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonfan Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Man of Kent said: I live in Tunbridge Wells! And it's probably quicker to get to Trailfinders in the car (and park within two minutes walk) than get the train to Plough Lane. The main reason I don't go to Ealing is because I hate that Broncos play in what is essentially a provincial club rugby union recreation ground in a Middlesex suburb. It's so small time, you kind of feel like a loser. Trailfinders is in W13 which is a London postcode. It is about 9 miles from Trafalgar Square and Plough Lane is about 7 miles from Trafalgar Square. You are clutching at straws here. I don’t understand how being surrounded by 12,000 empty seats is going to make you feel less “like a loser”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moscow01 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 £25 a ticket is outrageous. You can get away with that if you’re at home to Wigan or Leeds, but paying £100 for just tickets for four people to see London v Oldham is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 36 minutes ago, westlondonfan said: Trailfinders is in W13 which is a London postcode. It is about 9 miles from Trafalgar Square and Plough Lane is about 7 miles from Trafalgar Square. You are clutching at straws here. I don’t understand how being surrounded by 12,000 empty seats is going to make you feel less “like a loser”. It seems you're the one clutching at straws as LB is moving from Deadendville, Middlesex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonfan Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 38 minutes ago, Moscow01 said: £25 a ticket is outrageous. You can get away with that if you’re at home to Wigan or Leeds, but paying £100 for just tickets for four people to see London v Oldham is just silly. The season ticket for those living in W13 or W7 has more than doubled this year and we are still playing at Trailfinders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE RED ROOSTER Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 In the interests of balance, I feel I should point out that for the last two games at Trailfinders tickets have been available priced £ 20 in the stands. Though I am sure the new landlords want a £ 25 pound charge to fund their shiny stadium and might not mention the heavily discounted tickets being given away in a forlorn effort to get Wimbledon fans to go. While on the subject of Losers https://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/news/2021/may/25-year-season-tickets-explained/ Quote As you’ll remember, we still needed to take a £4.1m bridging loan from external lender MSP Capital to guarantee our new stadium would be completed. Remember someone needs your money and fast.... Quote When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so. George Orwell You either own NFTs or women’s phone numbers but not both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 13 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said: Remember someone needs your money and fast.... As someone far wiser than me observed: if the Broncos were smart, they could just wait 18 months for AFCW to go into administration and then buy Plough Lane on the cheap for themselves. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, gingerjon said: As someone far wiser than me observed: if the Broncos were smart, they could just wait 18 months for AFCW to go into administration and then buy Plough Lane on the cheap for themselves. Genuine LOL. Couldn’t happen anyway due to the way the companies are structured. More likely that AFC Wimbledon acquires the Broncos for 50p or whatever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmon Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 This should not turn into a LB vs Dons situation. I am a Broncos fan, I don't support any wendyball team, but I hope Wimbledon are sucessful and get into the championship next year, then onwards into the champions league by 2025. However as I don't follow football, (it just does not interest me), I would not attend any Wimbledon games, watch them on tv,look at the results etc even if they was playing PSG in Champions League in 2025, but to be fair neither would I do this for QPR, Brentford, Fulham, Barnet, Staines Town or any of the other football teams in london. The issue for me is not so much Wimbledon or playing at Wimbledon. The issue is I want London Broncos to spend funds on the Squad and not on ground rent. Improve the squad, you get more fans, have a sucessful product you have more fans, grow into the stadium when your ready, not when you rebuliding. Moving to a shiny new stadium will only work if you have the product to match the stadium, and right now London does not have a product which will generate enough revenue to pay the rent Wimbledon are asking for, without starving funds from the squad which will then result in worse product on the pitch which will lose more fans, and your in an ever decreasing circle. Basically what this looks like is Barnet 2 but on steroids. London Broncos Situation Basically we (London) are in a hole, because trailfinders is not SL ready, and we are probably at the limit of what we can acheive at Trailfinders. Its not a long term solution if we want to get into SL, but its an ideal venue for the level we play at right now, and the squad and product on offer (ie a squad which aim is not promotion but playoff qualification at best). But if LB want to play in Superleage then yes we need to move, nobody disputes that. Wimbledon Situation (Based on what I have read, as not a Dons fan can only go on what I see on the Dons website and reported here) Wimbledon are also in a hole, they need a lot of money to play off the loans for the stadium (25 year Season tickets for instance), so they also need revenue and need it fast, so I can see from the Dons PoV, getting rent in (200K) from LB, plus beer / food takings when LB are playing on site will help them close the huge loan they have to pay off by next year. So for them I don't think they actually care about 2024 / 2025 etc, they have a big deadline to pay a substantial loan coming next year, and there entire thinking is getting that paid off. Nothing more. So London need a bigger ground if they want to move into SL, and Wimbledon need cash urgently to pay off a crippling loan. So I can see why this deal has come about, and also why the ticket cost has gone up so much to 25GBP. On paper it looks a great synegy as it meets both sides immediate needs. However there are as always real life concerns which make it not viable for either side. London right now do not have an attractive offering of Super League standard. We are a mid table champ team, with squad to match, and if we finish 6th this will be an acheivement this year. Best estimate based on the results and Squad would be 800 to 1000 fans, if the prices had not been raised so much (so lets sey 18GBP full / 12 GBP concession). With the price Hike, it will be more like 300-500 fans. This will not drive the revenue the Dons need (forget the rent, I am sure they have baked in drinks / food estimates based on 1K+ fans,so only getting less the 50% of expected match day takings will hurt). Like we saw at Charlton / Barnet / Brentford, football fans are not going to come on mass to watch rugby league. They may come for a game or two, but that will be it. Even if you rebranded LB to Wimbledon RL, I would be amazed if you got 100+ Dons fans coming each week to the rugby. You will probably get more when there is no Football (so from mid may to early August), but not when football is also on. If Wimbledon fans are really interested in watching London, why then are they not buying tickets to come to Trailfinders for our games right now.. There is no football on, so nothing else to tempt them on the weekends. So I really do not seem large amounts of Dons fans coming to the RL, even if they was given free tickets to boost the atmosphere. Putting the price upto 25GBP, I've already bled this topic to death. So I really hope this works, and my concerns do not come to pass, and we have 2000+ people in the game vs Tolouse, where we win by 2 scores. But the realist in me feels that this is going to go sour very soon, as when the Dons do not get the return they have been promised by the London powers that be, and fail to pay off the large loan they have due next year, this could get ugly fast. But as I said I really hope it all works out... Peace and nice weather to all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 27 minutes ago, crashmon said: Interesting post. Just a point of order re the loan. It's a £4m short-term bridging loan that will be converted - now that the stadium has been handed over & open - to longer-term debt. That's the plan. The idea is Broncos rent will help pay that off over the course, or part of, the (as yet unsigned) 10-year agreement, not by next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmon Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 21 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: Just a point of order re the loan. It's a £4m short-term bridging loan that will be converted - now that the stadium has been handed over & open - to longer-term debt. That's the plan. The idea is Broncos rent will help pay that off over the course, or part of, the (as yet unsigned) 10-year agreement, not by next year. As I said I could have got some of the Wimbledon aspects wrong (ie only the website to go on), but I still think that London have significantly over promised what they will bring in terms of revenue to Wimbledon, and that Wimbledon are too optmistic on how many Dons fans will also watch the RL. But I would love to be wrong on all this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLANTISMAN Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 History tells us that football fans will watch 1 match and thats it I would expect 2000 for the first match at best and then it will be back to normal. Not having a dig here but thats the reality. Just opening my lunchtime reading as the LE has popped through the letterbox I see the official attendance was 280 on Sunday. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 £25 to watch Championship Rugby League is certainly a hard sell, particularly when you have average crowds of less than 1k and are competing against countless other attractions and sports teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmon Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I think if this deal had happened after we got promoted in 2018, and moved to PL for the SL season of 2019, this actually could have worked, as then we had the squad which gave a good enough product to get in fans. Add into the fact we over performed in 2019 as well, being at PL would potentially given the club the kick to actually survive that season as well, and then who knows. Problem is we are not the team or even club we where in 2019, so this move is too late and wrong time (from London perspective anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonfan Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 One point that has never been mentioned by advocates of the move is that you may lose a few Ealing based rugby union fans who turn up for the odd game at Trailfinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 25 minutes ago, crashmon said: As I said I could have got some of the Wimbledon aspects wrong (ie only the website to go on), but I still think that London have significantly over promised what they will bring in terms of revenue to Wimbledon, and that Wimbledon are too optmistic on how many Dons fans will also watch the RL. But I would love to be wrong on all this I think you're right to be concerned about possible overpromising. If Broncos are not bringing home the bacon, Wimbledon could well pull the plug. We know there's a break clause. What then for Broncos? In any case, there is no agreement yet as the planning application is still to be decided. And for all I know, Wimbledon could be looking at the recent Ealing crowds and questioning what Broncos are telling them about projected crowds at Plough Lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmon Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 What I would be interested in is who's idea it was to set 25GBP as the ticket price. Championship RL is at best the same level as the National League North / South level in terms of a football comparison, (we get similar attendances as Hampton & Richmond for example, and at this level most teams are semi-professional like Championship RL). I Think Hampton & Richmond charge about £15gbp for a ticket, so if we are charging 25gbp for the rugby league equivalent, then as you can see its very very expensive for this level of competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLANTISMAN Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, crashmon said: What I would be interested in is who's idea it was to set 25GBP as the ticket price. Championship RL is at best the same level as the National League North / South level in terms of a football comparison, (we get similar attendances as Hampton & Richmond for example, and at this level most teams are semi-professional like Championship RL). I Think Hampton & Richmond charge about £15gbp for a ticket, so if we are charging 25gbp for the rugby league equivalent, then as you can see its very very expensive for this level of competition + One has to remember that a pint is pretty steep as well at Ealing. So ticket 2 pints and a small snack one is looking at around 45 pounds Step 5 football (Similar crowd number) its 15 pounds for a ticket pint and a home made burger at my club. Sadly financially nothing stacks up max revenue on Sunday for the club would have been around 3K allowing for VAT and season tickets with no ground revenue I guess. Oh well it is what it is I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 On 31/05/2021 at 17:38, Magic XIII said: RU is a serious sport played across the nation where they are in a position to lay down minimum standards. RL is played seriously in a few parts of the north of England and a pocket of London, and as they say beggars cant be choosers. MoK turning up for the odd Broncos games at Plough Lane as it's on his doorstep hardly justifies the lock stock move from Trailfinders given the current state of the Broncos on and off the field. An attendance of 280 on Sunday, according to LE, doesn't exactly strengthen your case. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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