Mr Frisky Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Farmduck said: I dunno about over there. Most of us didn't know who they were but when they came here they performed against some of the top players in our league. I've never said Sutton was a megastar. I would definitely have him in the England squad for his beef and workrate. At his peak, Hodgson was World Class. To be honest Sutton was basically an average Wigan squad player and Hodgson was never classed as a great player - even now most regard him as 4th best UK player in his position - at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 56 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: There has been plenty of examples of top quality players over here who played all if not most of their career here. Hanley, Roby,, Peacock, Cunningham. Some players are happy to play in this country and our sport. I agree. Most of these were a good few years ago now though! There was very little financial discrepancy. However he wasn't talking about "top quality players" he specifically said "The best player in the World". I'm just pointing out that these days..... That isn't realistically ever going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELBOWSEYE Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: I agree. Most of these were a good few years ago now though! There was very little financial discrepancy. However he wasn't talking about "top quality players" he specifically said "The best player in the World". I'm just pointing out that these days..... That isn't realistically ever going to happen. Well I am just a fan at my age so I will rely qualfied people to judge the best players. So that's the panel who pick the Golden boot winner as the best player in the World. Now I agree most play in the NRL but there are some who were SL based. You may not agree but they are the experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: Well I am just a fan at my age so I will rely qualfied people to judge the best players. So that's the panel who pick the Golden boot winner as the best player in the World. Now I agree most play in the NRL but there are some who were SL based. You may not agree but they are the experts. Yeah - I think an award organised by an English magazine is probably less independent/impartial than we would all like it to be. I am particularly talking about the current era though, and the financial differences involved compared to the NRL and union. One example you cited was Ellery Hanley, who played when the NRL didn't even exist and union was an amateur sport . I am talking about the present era - 2020s and going forward. We will still see the odd few top international players in SuperLeague I am sure, but the thought of seeing "the best player in the world" trotting out at the likes of Leigh or Wakefield each week is completely unrealistic these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: Well I am just a fan at my age so I will rely qualfied people to judge the best players. So that's the panel who pick the Golden boot winner as the best player in the World. Now I agree most play in the NRL but there are some who were SL based. You may not agree but they are the experts. They don't nowadays incidentally. Again that's from the past. They did up to 2017. (Pick the winner as the best player in the world). Since then it has become an award for international performances. (Hence no award last season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELBOWSEYE Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Yeah - I think an award organised by an English magazine is probably less independent/impartial than we would all like it to be. I am particularly talking about the current era though, and the financial differences involved compared to the NRL and union. One example you cited was Ellery Hanley, who played when the NRL didn't even exist and union was an amateur sport . I am talking about the present era - 2020s and going forward. We will still see the odd few top international players in SuperLeague I am sure, but the thought of seeing "the best player in the world" trotting out at the likes of Leigh or Wakefield each week is completely unrealistic these days. Just a smattering of arrogance in that post, to decry long established clubs is wrong, I won't bother picking up on your mistake about union still amateur when Hanley played has it ever been amateur?, players come through the ranks every year and the odds are stacked towards the southern hemisphere but history shows that they can come from anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, ELBOWSEYE said: Just a smattering of arrogance in that post, to decry long established clubs is wrong, I won't bother picking up on your mistake about union still amateur when Hanley played has it ever been amateur?, players come through the ranks every year I have no idea, but they certainly weren't paying salaries, and would have had zero chance of attracting the "best RL player in the world" which was my original point. In fact he probably would still have been banned back in the days when Hanley was playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: Just a smattering of arrogance in that post, to decry long established clubs is wrong, Why? Just because they are "long established"?? We are talking about a professional sport, and it is the state that Wakefield and Leigh etc are in, that is precisely WHY the best player in the world will not be in SuperLeague. Can't you see that?? If they were incredibly successful and played in big Stadia in front of big crowds, then there would be money in the game to attract the best players (and also keep the best young athletes). But they aren't successful in that way, so they play in front of tiny crowds, and generate very little revenue, so the best players go elsewhere. I think that when fans like yourself blindly defend these clubs, and refuse to acknowledge their shortcomings, then you aren't really helping. The top players CGAF if Wakefield are "long established" or not... They will go where the money is best, where they can train in the best environment with the best facilities, and where the best coaches are, who will help them progress the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELBOWSEYE Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Why? Just because they are "long established"?? We are talking about a professional sport, and it is the state that Wakefield and Leigh etc are in, that is precisely WHY the best player in the world will not be in SuperLeague. Can't you see that?? If they were incredibly successful and played in big Stadia in front of big crowds, then there would be money in the game to attract the best players (and also keep the best young athletes). But they aren't successful in that way, so they play in front of tiny crowds, and generate very little revenue, so the best players go elsewhere. I think that when fans like yourself blindly defend these clubs, and refuse to acknowledge their shortcomings, then you aren't really helping. The top players CGAF if Wakefield are "long established" or not... They will go where the money is best, where they can train in the best environment with the best facilities, and where the best coaches are, who will help them progress the most. Roosters one of the most successful clubs with top players, just remind me what size crowds they play in front of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: Roosters one of the most successful clubs with top players, just remind me what size crowds they play in front of. Aye - but the NRL business model works. It is growing, and likely to expand in the short term. The English model currently doesn't. You can surely realise the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELBOWSEYE Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Just now, The Frying Scotsman said: Aye - but the NRL business model works. It is growing, and likely to expand in the short term. The English model currently doesn't. You can surely realise the difference? This topic was not on judging which competition is run better but on the possible world 13 and the sidetracked onto a best players having no chance of being in SL, which although the odds favour that stance it does not eliminate the chance of the best player coming from SL. Wakefield who you decried have the opportunity to produce talented players Tom Johnstone is a talented winger who has been blighted by injury for a few seasons but an injury free run would see him matching NRL wingers in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Yeah - I think an award organised by an English magazine is probably less independent/impartial than we would all like it to be. I am particularly talking about the current era though, and the financial differences involved compared to the NRL and union. One example you cited was Ellery Hanley, who played when the NRL didn't even exist and union was an amateur sport . I am talking about the present era - 2020s and going forward. We will still see the odd few top international players in SuperLeague I am sure, but the thought of seeing "the best player in the world" trotting out at the likes of Leigh or Wakefield each week is completely unrealistic these days. Thought it was a British magazine- and for a magazine you obviously hate for some reason you seem to spend a lot of time on its forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Mr Frisky said: Thought it was a British magazine- and for a magazine you obviously hate for some reason you seem to spend a lot of time on its forum. "Hate"? I read the magazine regularly. Where did I say anything about hating it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Aye - but the NRL business model works. It is growing, and likely to expand in the short term. The English model currently doesn't. You can surely realise the difference? You mean the NRL model that means just about every club is bankrup, don't own their grounds and rely on gambling addiction for their money? Its the European SL by the way - not the English SL. That's some chip you have against the English kid - saying that I bet you would crawl over 100s if kilts if you could get Danny Brough out of retirement for your world cup campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: This topic was not on judging which competition is run better but on the possible world 13 and the sidetracked onto a best players having no chance of being in SL, which although the odds favour that stance it does not eliminate the chance of the best player coming from SL. Wakefield who you decried have the opportunity to produce talented players Tom Johnstone is a talented winger who has been blighted by injury for a few seasons but an injury free run would see him matching NRL wingers in my opinion. Sure - decent player I agree, and capable of matching NRL wingers as you say. Although clearly has issues staying fit for a full season (possible lack of the correct S&C at a young age?) But "best player in the world"? Highly unlikely!! And if he did turn out to be, then he would rapidly (especially as a winger) get a massive offer from the Big League or from a rival sport, and very quickly leave the SuperLeague). That was my point - the Best Player in the World will almost certainly not be playing in the SuperLeague. I think we can be 99% sure of that. You still didn't explain why nobody should "decry long established clubs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELBOWSEYE Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, The Frying Scotsman said: Sure - decent player I agree, but clearly has issues staying fit for a full season (possible lack of the correct S&C at a young age?) But "best player in the world"? Highly unlikely!! And if he did turn out to be, then he would rapidly (especially as a winger) get a massive offer from the Big League or from a rival sport, and very quickly leave the SuperLeague). That was my point - the Best Player in the World will almost certainly not be playing in the SuperLeague. I think we can be 99% sure of that. You still didn't explain why nobody should "decry long established clubs". Mainly because your responses are just verbal tennis, you just state you are right and anyone who disagree with you is wrong. So I have played along and slowly getting bored because its not a discussion more a statement of what people believe is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Just now, ELBOWSEYE said: Mainly because your responses are just verbal tennis, you just state you are right and anyone who disagree with you is wrong. So I have played along and slowly getting bored because its not a discussion more a statement of what people believe is a fact. I acknowledged that you are correct on more than one occasion also. (Tom Johnstone, examples of top quality players in England...etc) This forum however is jam-packed full of posters "decrying long established clubs" every single week. I have never picked up on you complaining about any of them, except today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELBOWSEYE Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Golden boot winners, 5 based in SL, Schofied, Hanley, Farrell, Sinfied and Makinson, Only the last two winners were decided on international performance so Makinson is the only British based winner using that criteria. Just thought I would use facts rather than opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 52 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: Golden boot winners, 5 based in SL, Schofied, Hanley, Farrell, Sinfied and Makinson, Only the last two winners were decided on international performance so Makinson is the only British based winner using that criteria. Just thought I would use facts rather than opinions. SL didn't even exist when Hanley or Schofield won it FFS! . But aye... Thanks for using "facts" So Sinfield.... 9 years ago.... That is the most recent example you have of the "Best Player in the World" coming from SuperLeague. Great. I think everybody knows that SuperLeague has regressed massively since then, and the NRL is pulling away both financially and in terms of talent. Rugby League in England is going backwards, whereas the NRL is advancing. You only need to look at the "Dream Team" (ahem) that they named last year ... It would have struggled to win the NRL reserve grade some years. So once again - yes - there was a time in the past when the Best player in the World was produced in England. It may happen again (highly unlikely) and he could play very briefly in Super League. However.... We can be 99% certain that will either not happen or he will very quickly move to the NRL (or union). Gary Schofield FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: SL didn't even exist when Hanley or Schofield won it FFS! . But aye... Thanks for using "facts" So Sinfield.... 9 years ago.... That is the most recent example you have of the "Best Player in the World" coming from SuperLeague. Great. I think everybody knows that SuperLeague has regressed massively since then, and the NRL is pulling away both financially and in terms of talent. Rugby League in England is going backwards, whereas the NRL is advancing. You only need to look at the "Dream Team" (ahem) that they named last year ... It would have struggled to win the NRL reserve grade some years. So once again - yes - there was a time in the past when the Best player in the World was produced in England. It may happen again (highly unlikely) and he could play very briefly in Super League. However.... We can be 99% certain that will either not happen or he will very quickly move to the NRL (or union). Gary Schofield FFS Are you ever going to post something that doesn't slate SL or have a dig at England..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELBOWSEYE Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: SL didn't even exist when Hanley or Schofield won it FFS! . But aye... Thanks for using "facts" So Sinfield.... 9 years ago.... That is the most recent example you have of the "Best Player in the World" coming from SuperLeague. Great. I think everybody knows that SuperLeague has regressed massively since then, and the NRL is pulling away both financially and in terms of talent. Rugby League in England is going backwards, whereas the NRL is advancing. You only need to look at the "Dream Team" (ahem) that they named last year ... It would have struggled to win the NRL reserve grade some years. So once again - yes - there was a time in the past when the Best player in the World was produced in England. It may happen again (highly unlikely) and he could play very briefly in Super League. However.... We can be 99% certain that will either not happen or he will very quickly move to the NRL (or union). Gary Schofield FFS As I say I am not an expert so I don't decide who wins, but could you ever laced Schofieds boots. And how many players go to union now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 minute ago, ELBOWSEYE said: As I say I am not an expert so I don't decide who wins, but could you ever laced Schofieds boots. And how many players go to union now. WTF's that got to do with anything???? You are just rambling now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELBOWSEYE Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said: WTF's that got to do with anything???? You are just rambling now. You put Schofied ffs, which implies you never rated him. But don't reply if you like, I will make this my last one to you in this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: You put Schofied ffs, which implies you never rated him. But don't reply if you like, I will make this my last one to you in this topic. Don't rise to him - he basically slates SL and for some reason the English in every post. Not sure how he got to his goal of 100 post but fair play to the kid - he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frying Scotsman Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said: You put Schofied ffs, which implies you never rated him. But don't reply if you like, I will make this my last one to you in this topic. Aye.... Because it was about 40 years ago!! Super League didn't exist (you said he was "based in SL") and Rugby League was a part time sport! I talking about NOWADAYS... not digging up examples from 4 decades ago when players worked on roofs or in factories, and the game was hardly even on TV FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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