What's happening to the sport

[Harry Stottle]

3 games in and over 190 points chalked up, 

"I suppose it's Rugby League Jim, but not as we know it" or has it should be completed.

[Mr Frisky]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

3 games in and over 190 points chalked up, 

"I suppose it's Rugby League Jim, but not as we know it" or has it should be completed.

Yep, I'm assuming you are talking about the NRL as every post on here seems to be..... Brisbane were awful.

[Big Picture]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

3 games in and over 190 points chalked up, 

"I suppose it's Rugby League Jim, but not as we know it" or has it should be completed.

It's the result of all the rule changes made during the past 25 years and the weird obsession with making the game flow as rapidly as possible, that's made it too easy for teams to advance the ball down the field and into scoring position.  The result is teams having to defend their goal line a lot more nowadays and conceding a lot more points.

[Hela Wigmen]

Last week we had a 16-17, 20-16 and a 12-18. 

There’s nothing happening that doesn’t happen most years. 

[The Rocket]

If the worst we can do is offer up two games like the ones last night then the League is not going to lose too many fans, and probably get a stack of new ones, the crowd was on its` feet at Townsville last night, Reece Walsh shows what a young talented kid can do when we don`t drum the little/young guys out of the game with cheap shots and pray tell what was wrong with the Tigers v. St. George game, great result by the underdog, playing some great footy.

[JohnM]

8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It's the result of all the rule changes made during the past 25 years and the weird obsession with making the game flow as rapidly as possible, that's made it too easy for teams to advance the ball down the field and into scoring position.  The result is teams having to defend their goal line a lot more nowadays and conceding a lot more points.

I understand your point but.. As a Wigan fan, I'm not sure it is "too easy for teams to advance the ball down the field and into scoring position." 

I'm half joking in blaming the video ref. Players get too many rest and recovery breaks during the game, recharging their batteries and suffering less fatigue.

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Yep, I'm assuming you are talking about the NRL as every post on here seems to be..... Brisbane were awful.

Initially as you know it was wrote after the three SL games, but you are also very correct Frisky it could also apply to the NRL.

Give me a close encounter with a 20/30 point aggregate anytime over an 70 point tryathon especially one sided affairs.

Even being a season ticket holder, when my team was doing very very well in the Championship, I would not attend those games that were foregone big lob sided scoreboard conclusions, I just don't get entertained by them, but each to our own.

 

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It's the result of all the rule changes made during the past 25 years and the weird obsession with making the game flow as rapidly as possible, that's made it too easy for teams to advance the ball down the field and into scoring position.  The result is teams having to defend their goal line a lot more nowadays and conceding a lot more points.

So very correct BP, not often are we in agreement but we both have the exact same interpretation on this subject.

Take it back to 5 meter defensive lines for a start.

[Harry Stottle]

29 minutes ago, JohnM said:

I understand your point but.. As a Wigan fan, I'm not sure it is "too easy for teams to advance the ball down the field and into scoring position." 

I'm half joking in blaming the video ref. Players get too many rest and recovery breaks during the game, recharging their batteries and suffering less fatigue.

And far to many interchanges!

There's a thought now the game is going in "passive" tackling mode surely so many interchanges are not required, just a thought.

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Last week we had a 16-17, 20-16 and a 12-18. 

There’s nothing happening that doesn’t happen most years. 

That is exactly my point Hela, the afore mentioned scores should be the norm but sadly they aren't, keeping the scoreboard operator busy is much more prevalent in the way the game is played in today's "we have to speed it up" mentality.

[Hela Wigmen]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That is exactly my point Hela, the afore mentioned scores should be the norm but sadly they aren't, keeping the scoreboard operator busy is much more prevalent in the way the game is played in today's "we have to speed it up" mentality.

They are the norm. They literally happened last week. Big scores happen throughout a standard year, too. They’ve just so happened in one round so far this year. 

 

[Toby Chopra]

There's a difference between lop-sided blowouts, and a relatively even, but high scoring shootout. 

The former is largely down to he lack of depth in quality in our league, including in the coaching. But rule changes can exacerbate those factors, so that's worth examining were possible. 

A high scoring shootout where both teams are in it until the final quarter is probably what the league should be aiming for, providing it isn't all down to abysmal defending. 

[B rad]

On 29/05/2021 at 07:42, Hela Wigmen said:

Last week we had a 16-17, 20-16 and a 12-18. 

There’s nothing happening that doesn’t happen most years. 

Not really. It is somewhat worse. 

 

[JohnM]

Through eyes dimmed by age, I'm sure  recall Swinton putting 50 past Salford twice in a season in the early 60s.

I don't, though, understand the reasoning behind the new ball stealing rule when striking at the ptb was outlawed years ago.

[Hela Wigmen]

32 minutes ago, B rad said:

Not really. It is somewhat worse. 

 

Good job the post I was replying too was in regards to Super League. 

Also, an eighty game sample isn’t much of a sample, I’m afraid. 

[The Rocket]

2 hours ago, B rad said:

Not really. It is somewhat worse. 

 

The first thing that I would say about those statistics is that it probably reveals how the practice of slowing/winning the ruck, perfected by Melbourne, had worked its` way through the competition. Teams that had not put a lot of effort into developing their offence were able to stay in games through defence or by keeping their opponents score within reach.

2019 probably represents the beginning of the crackdown by the NRL through penalties at the ruck, hence the slight reversal. 2020 accelerated this trend with weaker attacking teams being punished with six-agains for attempting to restrict the better attacking teams. This has become a vicious cycle, a team scores more, gets the ball back, the other team has to defend again, tires more which also blunts their attack and leaves them more vulnerable in defence.

This reflects something that I had noted earlier in the season, not a lot more points were being scored, rather the scorelines were just more lop-sided. This ties in with the point I was making at the end of my last paragraph. 

Rather than getting rid of the six-again rules, coaches are going to have place more emphasis on attack to stay in and have the chance of winning games.

One other thing, 0-6 and 7-12 is probably two categories that could be merged, as even being 12 behind with 5-10 minutes to go is far from insurmountable, one may even say close.

So even up to the end of 2020 more than 50% of games where decided by 12 points or less, and a third less than 6 points and its important to remember this is a band, so we can assume that a lot of these games were decided by less than 6 and 12 points.

If I had to sum it up, get your attack in order, the habits relied on from the wrestle are over.

 

 

[Tommygilf]

On 28/05/2021 at 22:26, Big Picture said:

It's the result of all the rule changes made during the past 25 years and the weird obsession with making the game flow as rapidly as possible, that's made it too easy for teams to advance the ball down the field and into scoring position.  The result is teams having to defend their goal line a lot more nowadays and conceding a lot more points.

That has coincided with a massive development in defensive tactics and ability though. If you attacked like a team from the 80s now you wouldn't get out of your 20m zone.

Over the past 125 years the sport has repeatedly tried to overcome the problem of defences getting more able to block out teams and this being seen as unattractive. First we took the radical option of dropping 2 players to create more space, then we introduced 5 and them 10m defensive lines. With professionalism the focus of coaches trying to win titles on defence has increased further and so we have the liberally used 6 agains. We've also reduced interchanges to make players more tired.

I think you identify the end product, but not the real reason why its there. Speeding up the game isn't being sought because a fast game is inherently good, its because it makes an unwanted defensive shut out far more difficult.

Has the balance been struck? I'm not so sure, but its critical to understand that speed is not being sought for speed's sake.

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, B rad said:

Not really. It is somewhat worse. 

 

6 Again is certainly having the effect of a "winner's bonus", though I'm not sure its the only aspect (more liberal use of sin bins for example).

[Sports Prophet]

On 29/05/2021 at 15:28, Hela Wigmen said:

They are the norm. They literally happened last week. Big scores happen throughout a standard year, too. They’ve just so happened in one round so far this year. 

 

It’s been an ongoing saga all season. There appears to be less competitiveness in the NRL this season than there has for a very long time. It has been newsworthy most of the season.

[graveyard johnny]

you have to fear that with 6 again etc etc- aus could rack up a record score against eng if the wc takes place- with teddy mitchell turbo addo carr etc in their backline 

[Mr Frisky]

4 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

you have to fear that with 6 again etc etc- aus could rack up a record score against eng if the wc takes place- with teddy mitchell turbo addo carr etc in their backline 

Probably the same when Tonga play the Aussies, they could run wild  - as the Aussies can't beat them as we all know...On the other hand Tonga can't seem to beat England..

[graveyard johnny]

2 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Probably the same when Tonga play the Aussies, they could run wild  - as the Aussies can't beat them as we all know...On the other hand Tonga can't seem to beat England..

we are talking about the rules been changed quite considerably since the last wc and how it affects teams who get on top in the game and the ones who dont 

[MZH]

On 29/05/2021 at 08:35, Toby Chopra said:

There's a difference between lop-sided blowouts, and a relatively even, but high scoring shootout. 

The former is largely down to he lack of depth in quality in our league, including in the coaching. But rule changes can exacerbate those factors, so that's worth examining were possible. 

A high scoring shootout where both teams are in it until the final quarter is probably what the league should be aiming for, providing it isn't all down to abysmal defending. 

I disagree that its what we should be aiming for. I don't want to see a you score we score 44-40 game become a regular. They are fun when they happen as a novelty, but I want to see tough defense and players having to really work hard or come up with a top drawer play to get points. A game with circa 40 points is about right. Enough scoring and excitement but without the touch and pass defense.

Scores seem to be getting higher and higher, especially in the NRL, and I don't really like the direction it's going.

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, graveyard johnny said:

we are talking about the rules been changed quite considerably since the last wc and how it affects teams who get on top in the game and the ones who dont 

Its the same for both sides though- if Australia couldn't beat them 2 years ago why would they beat then now??

[Mr Frisky]

On 29/05/2021 at 08:35, Toby Chopra said:

There's a difference between lop-sided blowouts, and a relatively even, but high scoring shootout. 

The former is largely down to he lack of depth in quality in our league, including in the coaching. But rule changes can exacerbate those factors, so that's worth examining were possible. 

A high scoring shootout where both teams are in it until the final quarter is probably what the league should be aiming for, providing it isn't all down to abysmal defending. 

Totally agree about close games but you have to look at the context of a blow out.

However Catalans win over Wigan was one of the most impressive and enjoyable performances I've seen for a long time - Wigan weren't terrible, they just weren't allowed to play and Cats were simply class.