Cumbrian Mackem Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Giant prop Franklin pele made his NRL debut for the cronulla sharks at the weekend becoming the latest member of 2018 Australian schoolboys who lost to England 2-0 to do so. Interestingly enough to the best of my knowledge he’s the 1st and only forward so far from that touring side to debut(unless Tommy Talau played #13) compared to his many English counterparts who have debuted in super league. I wonder if the Aussies deliberately do this in order to protect the forwards more from the physical aspects of the NRL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 42 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said: Giant prop Franklin pele made his NRL debut for the cronulla sharks at the weekend becoming the latest member of 2018 Australian schoolboys who lost to England 2-0 to do so. Interestingly enough to the best of my knowledge he’s the 1st and only forward so far from that touring side to debut(unless Tommy Talau played #13) compared to his many English counterparts who have debuted in super league. I wonder if the Aussies deliberately do this in order to protect the forwards more from the physical aspects of the NRL? I don't think it is a deliberate policy. The Aussies tend to play the players when they are the best option. I think it is more reflective of the the fact that in the 2018 games, the English simply had better forwards. If you look at the 2016 teams, the likes of Payne Haas, Blayke Brailey and Thomas Mikaele have played plenty of NRL games and in the case of Haas he was an Origin and Kangaroo representative in his teens. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 25 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I don't think it is a deliberate policy. The Aussies tend to play the players when they are the best option. I think it is more reflective of the the fact that in the 2018 games, the English simply had better forwards. If you look at the 2016 teams, the likes of Payne Haas, Blayke Brailey and Thomas Mikaele have played plenty of NRL games and in the case of Haas he was an Origin and Kangaroo representative in his teens. The English forwards definitely outmuscled the Aussies in both tests. I still think that making the transition from youth team/2nd tier rugby is harder for the forwards than the backs in the NRL. Especially on the defensive side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said: The English forwards definitely outmuscled the Aussies in both tests. I still think that making the transition from youth team/2nd tier rugby is harder for the forwards than the backs in the NRL. Especially on the defensive side. And there you have it, an other dig at SL.... God forbid the English lads were/are just better than the Aussies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said: And there you have it, an other dig at SL.... God forbid the English lads were/are just better than the Aussies.. I was talking about the difference with transitioning from 2nd tier RL to the NRL between backs&forwards. No dig at super league at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Just now, Cumbrian Mackem said: I was talking about the difference with transitioning from 2nd tier RL to the NRL between backs&forwards. No dig at super league at all. And again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Just now, Mr Frisky said: And again.... And again you’re arguing with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 The Australian Schoolboys in fairness have never been the best they could offer as more than a few were always contracted well before the pick. A better measure has always been our Academy tours down under and in that regard we have done more than ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTK Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 58 minutes ago, del capo said: The Australian Schoolboys in fairness have never been the best they could offer as more than a few were always contracted well before the pick. A better measure has always been our Academy tours down under and in that regard we have done more than ok In practice this is definitely correct. To qualify for the schoolboys team you obviously have to still be attending school, which in the final two years may often not be the case for aspiring rugby league players given the backgrounds of many involved (I personally know players who dropped out of school altogether once they missed the cut for this side in order to go start a trade). The other factor is that anyone who is a year younger than their cohort has already completed their schooling despite being in the same age group. I really don't know why we don't run an academy type setup instead as the schoolboys method also brings Kiwis into the fold if they're being educated in Australia (Starford To'a is a case on this tour). The best forwards from this age in Aus not from this tour would be: 8. Spencer Leniu 9. Cory Paix 10. Tom Gilbert 11. David Fifita 12. Shawn Blore 13. Tino Fa'asuamaleaui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 8 hours ago, UTK said: In practice this is definitely correct. To qualify for the schoolboys team you obviously have to still be attending school, which in the final two years may often not be the case for aspiring rugby league players given the backgrounds of many involved (I personally know players who dropped out of school altogether once they missed the cut for this side in order to go start a trade). The other factor is that anyone who is a year younger than their cohort has already completed their schooling despite being in the same age group. I really don't know why we don't run an academy type setup instead as the schoolboys method also brings Kiwis into the fold if they're being educated in Australia (Starford To'a is a case on this tour). The best forwards from this age in Aus not from this tour would be: 8. Spencer Leniu 9. Cory Paix 10. Tom Gilbert 11. David Fifita 12. Shawn Blore 13. Tino Fa'asuamaleaui That pack is ridiculous, especially the backrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 10 hours ago, UTK said: In practice this is definitely correct. To qualify for the schoolboys team you obviously have to still be attending school, which in the final two years may often not be the case for aspiring rugby league players given the backgrounds of many involved (I personally know players who dropped out of school altogether once they missed the cut for this side in order to go start a trade). The other factor is that anyone who is a year younger than their cohort has already completed their schooling despite being in the same age group. I really don't know why we don't run an academy type setup instead as the schoolboys method also brings Kiwis into the fold if they're being educated in Australia (Starford To'a is a case on this tour). The best forwards from this age in Aus not from this tour would be: 8. Spencer Leniu 9. Cory Paix 10. Tom Gilbert 11. David Fifita 12. Shawn Blore 13. Tino Fa'asuamaleaui Are you saying that these were the best players at the time and were not selected or that these are the best players from u18's age group 3 years later based on how they have progressed. Because that is two very different things. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I think it’s the latter @Dunbar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 Some of those players could have been injured or ruled out of touring for other reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTK Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 47 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Are you saying that these were the best players at the time and were not selected or that these are the best players from u18's age group 3 years later based on how they have progressed. Because that is two very different things. Very valid point, that pack was moreso based on performance now, however at the time it likely would've been very similar. Each of these guys played in the 2017 schoolboys side against NZ while an age below, or would rep Origin sides an age below. Blore and Tino made the Aus 20s side post-season in 2018 as well. 8. Spencer Leniu 9. Kyle Schneider (Hasn't made first grade - not even sure if he's on a top 30) 10. Lindsay Smith (Debuts this weekend) 11. David Fifita 12. Shawn Blore (Has yet to kick on with the rest, think he did back-to-back ACLs after 2018) 13. Tino Fa'asuamaleaui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Cumbrian Mackem said: Some of those players could have been injured or ruled out of touring for other reasons? Now looking for excuses for the Aussies losing, I just saw a great England performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Now looking for excuses for the Aussies losing, I just saw a great England performance. Are you ok marra? You seem to be looking for an argument? I was genuinely floating possible ideas for their absence hence the question mark. No need to get all excited and puffed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB90 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 21 minutes ago, UTK said: Very valid point, that pack was moreso based on performance now, however at the time it likely would've been very similar. Each of these guys played in the 2017 schoolboys side against NZ while an age below, or would rep Origin sides an age below. Blore and Tino made the Aus 20s side post-season in 2018 as well. 8. Spencer Leniu 9. Kyle Schneider (Hasn't made first grade - not even sure if he's on a top 30) 10. Lindsay Smith (Debuts this weekend) 11. David Fifita 12. Shawn Blore (Has yet to kick on with the rest, think he did back-to-back ACLs after 2018) 13. Tino Fa'asuamaleaui Any of the 2018 under 18 class that were on a 'top 30' NRL contract for 2019 didn't go on the Australian Schoolboys tour as pre season in the NRL begins in late November (which I assume would if been the case for the majority of the above). I believe the School Boys tour goes well into December. David Fafita had already debuted in 2018 so he definitely wouldn't of gone regardless if he was in school or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Just back to the opening post. Tommy Talau played at lock in the 2nd test of the series and has gone on to play for the Tigers in the NRL while Matt Doorey also played in the second game and has played for the Bulldogs in first grade as well. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I wish we could see an U19s tournament for Aus, NZ, England, Fiji, PNG etc. It would be high quality and provide a great test for our boys. I haven't included Samoa or Tonga as I don't think they would really have much at that level as they all play their junior RL in Australia. France and Wales could potentially be included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 52 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Just back to the opening post. Tommy Talau played at lock in the 2nd test of the series and has gone on to play for the Tigers in the NRL while Matt Doorey also played in the second game and has played for the Bulldogs in first grade as well. Talau has mostly played on the wing or centre for the tigers. Must have been a loose forward in his youth? when did Doorey debut. This season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, JM2010 said: I wish we could see an U19s tournament for Aus, NZ, England, Fiji, PNG etc. It would be high quality and provide a great test for our boys. I haven't included Samoa or Tonga as I don't think they would really have much at that level as they all play their junior RL in Australia. France and Wales could potentially be included The number of Fijian born and eligible Australian born Fijians currently playing in the youth competitions in Australia is big and growing year on year. Samoa and Tonga could field teams but would mostly be madeup of heritage players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said: when did Doorey debut. This season? 2020 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, AB90 said: Any of the 2018 under 18 class that were on a 'top 30' NRL contract for 2019 didn't go on the Australian Schoolboys tour as pre season in the NRL begins in late November (which I assume would if been the case for the majority of the above). I believe the School Boys tour goes well into December. David Fafita had already debuted in 2018 so he definitely wouldn't of gone regardless if he was in school or not. Bronson Xerri was another who was scheduled to come but was then included in Sharks top 30 so didn't............shame, it would have been good to see him up against Newman/Simms. I remember Jalal Bazzaz was getting big raps from the Aussies on the tour.........but our forward pack was clearly superior to theirs in both games. I wonder if he'll be playing for Lebanon in the WC........it says he's on the roster for St George atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Looking through the list of players from the Aussie team, it would seem that Ratu Nanovo is unlikely to progress his career. Fiji international Ratu Nanovo at centre of rugby league stabbing incident | 7NEWS.com.au "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Looking through the list of players from the Aussie team, it would seem that Ratu Nanovo is unlikely to progress his career. Fiji international Ratu Nanovo at centre of rugby league stabbing incident | 7NEWS.com.au Banned for life apparently. What a waste of a career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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