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17 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

I think you’re confusing the term “athlete” with “talented”. There must be tens of thousands of “athletes” leaving the US college system every year but a tiny fraction of them would be considered “talented” Rugby players largely due to them not being exposed to the game of either format.

You’re right, it’s probably semantics. I just don’t think the level of athlete between USARL and NARL has changed substantially. Delaware have been losing by a similar amount to other USARL teams regularly in past years for example

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This seems to confirm no sponsors signed up, merely interested, hence no funding:

The competition has attracted a number of global brands who are extremely enthusiastic to partner with the NARL since we announced the launch earlier this year. This extension will allow these partnerships to be developed and delivered with a more targeted and measured approach.

 

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31 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Interesting that the NARL and Wolfpack tweets both went out at roughly the same time and both had errors. Suggests the same person runs both accounts 

Hope that doesn't mean Wilby is running Toronto....

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8 hours ago, Dave T said:

This is just false narrative that is being created so some RL fans can moan about other RL fans. People keep repeating it and it becomes a 'truth' that just isn't the case. 

 I mean let's think it through, why would anybody begrudge a team starting from scratch, doing well, getting promotion and being successful. 

I mean how much hatred do Coventry, Newcastle etc actually get?

Where we do have an issue is when clubs get what is seen as preferential treatment. Plenty of people just don't buy into licensing, franchising, call it whatever you want. Plenty of people don't see the benefits of teams from the other side of the world in the UK pyramid. I don't share those views, but they are fair and valid viewpoints.  

The real division and controversy around all this started in 1995 when clubs were excluded from the top division and Paris and London were elevated. It was all done so clumsily, and we continued to be clumsy around licensing and new teams into the structure ever since. 

People being peed off with that shouldn't be confused with a dislike of new areas playing RL.

To bring it back to the NARL - have a look at the long thread that has now been blocked - the chippiness was not from people slating the NARL, it was from people championing the NARL and slating SL - saying they will soon have a comp that rivals SL and that SL will see it as a missed opportunity etc. The constant attacks on RL fans is tiresome.

Spot on Dave , much of the ' Ill wishing ' was due to Toronto essentially targeting and dismantling one existing clubs team , a club they had tried to buy one year earlier ( you have to question the motives in that ) but been rebuffered , this obviously drew a considerable amount of unhappiness from the fans of that club , I have no doubt that if it had been any other club dealt with in this way , the fans of that club would have reacted exactly the same 

As regards expansion and the NARL , again the motives as has been highlighted come into question, just ' Why ' ? , Is it to expand the sport or an attempt to make a profit ( not saying that is a bad thing , but as a consequence of good management , not the primary aim , I raise this because plenty of times this has been the aim when ' expanding ' RL in the UK , essentially other sports with a stadium hoping to entice existing RL fans to their venue to make a profit from doing so , hence their subsequent failures afterwards ) , so which was the NARL ? , A genuine attempt to spread RL , or an attempt to create a ' product ' that could then be auctioned off ?

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If yesterday's RL Planet article is accurate, then this NARL statement seems very different to what I was expecting. 

I find excuses like "travel insurance" a bit odd too. There is no way something like that could have been the deal breaker, so why even mention it? 

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18 minutes ago, langpark said:

If yesterday's RL Planet article is accurate, then this NARL statement seems very different to what I was expecting. 

I find excuses like "travel insurance" a bit odd too. There is no way something like that could have been the deal breaker, so why even mention it? 

The statement and comments in it are a bit of a mess. It's all over the place. 

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11 hours ago, RP London said:

 

Those people i tend to "disagree" with are often looking at it with a "they wont learn" hat on where as i hope they do. When these things fail we are both normally correct as they havent learnt. Toronto was the only one where i have seen "glee" around failure and a lot of that was because of the tone of the conversation that was had around it on this board but also the tone that was coming from Toronto. Personally i dont mind trumpet blowing and it can be a very good weapon but I know it also winds people up the wrong way and if you fall they will laugh louder because of it. However, I also know that those same people were sorry for those that would lose their team and a sport they had grown to enjoy. 

I personally think you are wide of the mark on this and that some may be saying it with a little "high horsedness" of "i knew it!" but there is still no glee in it.

As I put above , the way Toronto essentially targeted one club in recruitment , created resentment , understandably IMO , and any clubs fans in that position would have reacted in the same way 

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Some details here from the Chasing Kangaroos people, including an indication that the NARL people are starting to work with the USARL people, which has to be a good thing.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xMDNmZmM0L3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz/episode/YmQ5YjI2NmItNWVlNC00YWMyLWJkNzMtOWJiN2U4MGZiZjc1?sa=X&ved=0CAYQkfYCahcKEwjgxpPHvobxAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ

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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

You saw for yourself how much a team who started from the bottom and got promoted to SL were begrudged but are choosing to ignore it. 

Coventry and Newcastle might currently not get much resentment but that's because they currently offer no threat to the status quo. But should they get ideas above their station and maybe want to be a top SL side or maybe get a rich owner,  well then they would soon find out they are not welcome in reality.

Newcastle, in their Gateshead Thunder guise, received plenty of resentment when they entered SL. 'Oh they should start at the bottom' they said. 

Lots, and I mean lots, of RL fans are happy with the big fish in a small pond scenario. I didn't read that in the paper btw, I have learnt it from experience. Anyway, they have won the day and they will be able to keep RL to themselves.

How long did Gateshead thunder last in super league?

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45 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

You saw for yourself how much a team who started from the bottom and got promoted to SL were begrudged but are choosing to ignore it. 

Coventry and Newcastle might currently not get much resentment but that's because they currently offer no threat to the status quo. But should they get ideas above their station and maybe want to be a top SL side or maybe get a rich owner,  well then they would soon find out they are not welcome in reality.

Newcastle, in their Gateshead Thunder guise, received plenty of resentment when they entered SL. 'Oh they should start at the bottom' they said. 

Lots, and I mean lots, of RL fans are happy with the big fish in a small pond scenario. I didn't read that in the paper btw, I have learnt it from experience. Anyway, they have won the day and they will be able to keep RL to themselves.

The idea of a team from Canada in the UK pyramid is daft for many. 

They haven't been proven wrong yet. 

Maybe a bit of humility. 

The stuff you say about heartland clubs and fans is the same as people say about the likes of Toronto. 

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An old director I worked for constantly dismissed surveys, saying don't listen to what people say, look at what they do. 

And over the years we have seen RL fans travel in their thousands to new ventures, whether Catalans, Toronto, Crusaders, Magic Weekend, Barcelona, Gateshead, On the Road, etc. 

We also saw it celebrated many many times on here how many clubs got bigger crowds than average for the TWP games. 

Maybe people need to stop forming opinions based on the noisy ####### and actually look at the evidence of what RL fans are actually doing. Because the two things don't match up. 

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28 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Toronto could have been Milton Keynes. It would still have been the same reaction but different arguments put forward. 

Not supported by a shred of evidence. 

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41 minutes ago, Dave T said:

An old director I worked for constantly dismissed surveys, saying don't listen to what people say, look at what they do. 

And over the years we have seen RL fans travel in their thousands to new ventures, whether Catalans, Toronto, Crusaders, Magic Weekend, Barcelona, Gateshead, On the Road, etc. 

We also saw it celebrated many many times on here how many clubs got bigger crowds than average for the TWP games. 

Maybe people need to stop forming opinions based on the noisy ####### and actually look at the evidence of what RL fans are actually doing. Because the two things don't match up. 

This is it for me.. this forum is a bubble, an echo chamber.. we all have an opinion but we are a very small minority of the fans, we are a dedicated minority granted but a minority. Even on these subjects were are split and therefore those "vocal few" (in terms of numbers here) are even more of a "few" when put into the wider context of the fan base. 

One could get very depressed if your opinion differed to others on here, it can also be a very negative place as people tend to moan more than they do praise. There is a complaints department at most companies there is no such thing as a praise department... its just the way of things. Same with online reviews, if people love it they dont necessarily seek out to review (its why companies are now more active in asking you to review, hoping that those who love it will actually review and balance the 1 or 2 that hate it but are vocal). 

Anyone thinking it is the RL fan that is to blame because of a discussion board like this needs to have a look (as you say) at what actually happens but also at themselves and if with every opinion they actually represent the majority or even a large minority of if maybe they are just a loan voice on the wind amplified by a keyboard.

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1 minute ago, RP London said:

This is it for me.. this forum is a bubble, an echo chamber.. we all have an opinion but we are a very small minority of the fans, we are a dedicated minority granted but a minority. Even on these subjects were are split and therefore those "vocal few" (in terms of numbers here) are even more of a "few" when put into the wider context of the fan base. 

One could get very depressed if your opinion differed to others on here, it can also be a very negative place as people tend to moan more than they do praise. There is a complaints department at most companies there is no such thing as a praise department... its just the way of things. Same with online reviews, if people love it they dont necessarily seek out to review (its why companies are now more active in asking you to review, hoping that those who love it will actually review and balance the 1 or 2 that hate it but are vocal). 

Anyone thinking it is the RL fan that is to blame because of a discussion board like this needs to have a look (as you say) at what actually happens but also at themselves and if with every opinion they actually represent the majority or even a large minority of if maybe they are just a loan voice on the wind amplified by a keyboard.

RL fans are pretty evangelical. Sure they can be a bit negative, we all can, but in my years following the game I've stood with RL fans in Barcelona, Perpignan, London, Swansea, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Wrexham and so on, and we've seen fans travel. In their thousands to all sorts of events. 

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19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

RL fans are pretty evangelical. Sure they can be a bit negative, we all can, but in my years following the game I've stood with RL fans in Barcelona, Perpignan, London, Swansea, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Wrexham and so on, and we've seen fans travel. In their thousands to all sorts of events. 

totally agree with you.

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

It's deeper than a few fans moaning though. It seems to be the people making these decisions are of this mindset too. 

most people making what decisions?

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58 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Toronto could have been Milton Keynes. It would still have been the same reaction but different arguments put forward. 

If the exact scenario was repeated by someone in milton keynes i would agree.. a fair few on here (leigh fans) would be annoyed but that is because they went after the leigh squad and coaches etc so I am sure their opinion would be the same. 

A wealthy benefactor will always be treated with a healthy bit of suspicion until proven to be "for the good of the game" as was the case with Koukash, as is the case with football (I;m a wednesday fan and we have a wealthy backer but he appears not to know where his cheque book is and not have the best interests of the club at heart). 

But the point is people still turn up to support these things, even if they are sceptical about them.. as many did with Toronto. Its not all negative, its scepticism which is not necessarily a bad thing.

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

The people who decide to axe the none heartland clubs, development officers or play no internationals etc etc etc.

Those people.

You have been on this board long enough to know me and know my views and how much I bang on with DOs and internationals (and as an eagles fan about dumping clubs). However, the argument has been how RL Fans are the cause for all of this and how RL Fans are to blame for this which is not the case and most RL Fans have the same view that dumping DOs is a bad idea, that internationals are the way forward etc. There are some that would like to see money spent in their own area rather than expansion areas, of course there are, but that is exactly the same with any spending decisions in any walk of life.

I dont disagree those in power need to fund development and expansion more and better. They are not completely blind to this and do do some (magic weekend, world cup double header etc) but they must do more, of course they must. Their decisions to cut funding are terrible and short sighted and their attitude to the international game is a joke. 

However, the discussion was around the fans being to blame and that is what we were defending as it just isnt the case, fans turn out and support when these things are done right and not at late notice on a wednesday night at the LSV (using the example so often trotted out)

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