NARL (Merged threads)

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Gas & Gaiters XIII 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry , not got a clue what you are reffering to , continue to post in a childish way if you want , but expect people to ignore you if you do , or grow up and enter the discussion in an adult way 

The choice is yours ?

[Smudger06]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

In that case at least comment on the points I made , as I said Toronto targeted Leigh , so don't expect Leigh fans to be happy about it , if Dereck had accepted Mr Argyles offer to buy Leigh , what do you think his long term motive would have been ?

Toronto Centurions. 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Smudger06 said:

Toronto Centurions. 

My thoughts too , with Leigh deposited into L1 as a reserve/feeder club 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

I'll post in whatever way I want. Feel free to block or ignore, no skin off my nose chief. 

Indeed , but at least I tried , enjoy your afternoon , or moaning if you are in the US

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, POR said:

https://56828651-2e19-4a71-b35a-fe1699f49b4c.filesusr.com/ugd/2d6565_36f12ce2eea94719b3d0bc6b00f17d91.pdf

Interesting statement that.  Rob Curtis' phrasing and terminology there suggests to me that the whole thing is geared to appeal to overseas followers of the game to find investment and sponsorship rather than to North Americans.  Whether that approach can work remains to be seen, but I'm skeptical that it can.  I see it says that they have "plans to host a number of exhibition games in the US", it will be interesting to see if those come off.

[tms]

42 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Sorry , not got a clue what you are reffering to , continue to post in a childish way if you want , but expect people to ignore you if you do , or grow up and enter the discussion in an adult way 

The choice is yours ?

• 

 

[RP London]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

And yet I was there at the LSV on that Wednesday night , although I did leave for the pub at half time

you are the problem  

[iffleyox]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

This is a genuine question - for whimsy purposes - but which sport has pro teams in all of Paris, London, Gateshead, Perpignan, Toulouse, Coventry, Toronto ...

Soccer doesn't have a pro team in Perpignan. RU doesn't have one in Gateshead. Cricket doesn't have one anywhere other than London.

a bit sleight of hand there though, there isn't a pro RU team in Gateshead granted, but the other side of the river there is. So basically the answer to your question is RU isn't it...? Unless no one in Gateshead can use a bridge. 

I'm not being picky for the sake of it though - but Newcastle/Gateshead is a bit of an artificial divide for the purposes of 'is there a pro sports team on your doorstep to watch?' rather than 'does it have the same name as you while still being on your doorstep?' Certainly I don't suppose the backers of (the original) Gateshead Thunder expected to survive and thrive without fans from the north bank.

[gingerjon]

Just now, iffleyox said:

a bit sleight of hand there though, there isn't a pro RU team in Gateshead granted, but the other side of the river there is. So basically the answer to your question is RU isn't it...? Unless no one in Gateshead can use a bridge. 

I'm not being picky for the sake of it though - but Newcastle/Gateshead is a bit of an artificial divide for the purposes of 'is there a pro sports team on your doorstep to watch?' rather than 'does it have the same name as you while still being on your doorstep?' Certainly I don't suppose the backers of (the original) Gateshead Thunder expected to survive and thrive without fans from the north bank.

I'd understood that Newcastle and Gateshead counted as separate places albeit on top of each other.

I also wasn't sure if Coventry RU were professional but based your reply I'll assume they are.

[iffleyox]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I'd understood that Newcastle and Gateshead counted as separate places albeit on top of each other.

I also wasn't sure if Coventry RU were professional but based your reply I'll assume they are.

Cov are pro, although given the current climate they, and a lot of the rest of that league, might be shortly to dilute that status. But yes, for now. 

On Newcastle/Gateshead, they're separate, but face each other across the river. It's a bit like saying people from Birkenhead won't watch Liverpool/Everton. Gateshead relatives of mine get very shirty if/when accused of being Geordies, but to everyone from outside the area they are Geordies and it doesn't stop them going basically 1000m to watch Newcastle United. I've just looked on Google maps and I knew NUFC was close, but it's *really* close. Put it this way (I've just done this by eye on a map) but I would estimate Gateshead is 7 times closer to Newcastle than Leigh is to Wigan.

[gingerjon]

Just now, iffleyox said:

Cov are pro, although given the current climate they, and a lot of the rest of that league, might be shortly to dilute that status. But yes, for now. 

On Newcastle/Gateshead, they're separate, but face each other across the river. It's a bit like saying people from Birkenhead won't watch Liverpool/Everton. Gateshead relatives of mine get very shirty if/when accused of being Geordies, but to everyone from outside the area they are Geordies and it doesn't stop them going basically 1000m to watch Newcastle United. I've just looked on Google maps and I knew NUFC was close, but it's *really* close. Put it this way (I've just done this by eye on a map) but I would estimate Gateshead is 7 times closer to Newcastle than Leigh is to Wigan.

Fair enough. Genuinely thought there was a bit more gap than that.

[iffleyox]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Fair enough. Genuinely thought there was a bit more gap than that.

everything above the river = Newcastle. Everything below = Gateshead

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gateshead/@54.9702739,-1.6199476,3336m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487e65525287ead7:0x594570c53db4f5c6!8m2!3d54.95268!4d-1.603411

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

you are the problem  

So am I not a fan because I went ? , Or because I left ? 

[iffleyox]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

 

The RU Prem has 12 teams in England but has never gone down the route of putting a top flight team in say, Liverpool. 

 

although at least technically it hasn't needed to - Waterloo were founder members of the top flight when leagues were introduced in 87, and Liverpool St Helens were a force (well, they weren't actually very good but they had England players playing for them while internationals) in the 80s, so in some ways Liverpool is a place with RU pedigree without the RFU trying to build a flat pack club.

Also, the RFU hasn't felt the need to build flat pack clubs. OK, in some ways it has been lucky in that investors came in with genuine money and took Saracens*, Worcester, Newcastle and Exeter on a journey to the top flight (and in two of those cases the top of the top flight), but I really wish the RFL would have more self-confidence and say 'these are our best clubs at the moment, if you want to join them or displace them you're welcome to try, but we're not going to go out of our way to help you set up an instant top flight club in (for example) Norwich for the hell of it.'

What the RFL actually needs is someone with serious money coming into Broncos, Hemel, Coventry etc and taking an existing club up the leagues; or if they can't do that then at least building a club from scratch in BARLA then taking it into L1 and up from there. It's what football and RU do - clubs don't just appear from nowhere (well, ok, MK Dons did, but at least they were a paper relocation) at level one, two or three.**

*lest it be thought that I'm standing up for Saracens, I'm talking about their meteoric rise from park pitch that had to be swept for needles before the start of every match to the top tier, rather than the subsequent 'the rules don't apply to us' tenure at the top of it.

** and I say that, with much regret, as an Oxford STH who still feels burned by the experience.

[tms]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

This is a genuine question - for whimsy purposes - but which sport has pro teams in all of Paris, London, Gateshead, Perpignan, Toulouse, Coventry, Toronto ...

Soccer doesn't have a pro team in Perpignan. RU doesn't have one in Gateshead. Cricket doesn't have one anywhere other than London.

Wasps Rugby Football Club is an English professional rugby union team based in Coventry, England

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, POR said:

Wasps Rugby Football Club is an English professional rugby union team based in Coventry, England

Complete blind spot on that one - yup, you’re completely right

[iffleyox]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Complete blind spot on that one - yup, you’re completely right

I prefer to see my failure to spot that one as a feature of my contempt for that particular club and it's shameless move onto the patch of another pro club. 

But either way, yes, Coventry actually has two professional RU clubs.

[langpark]

Last thread was locked cos we went off-topic. This one now has 3 pages worth of talking about Coventry Bears

[iffleyox]

I'd hope we're still (just) on RL and RL-relevant subjects though? Because the list that's generated the pages about Coventry is germane to the situation. 

I just wish for a bit more self-confidence rather than pins in maps. There's no reason N America can't have a professional RL league, but just not this one.

Taking the last 7 pages into account, what *is* the way to expand properly in North America?

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, langpark said:

Last thread was locked cos we went off-topic. This one now has 3 pages worth of talking about Coventry Bears

Be fair. We’re also discussing the geography of Newcastle-Gateshead.

[GUBRATS]

19 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

I'd hope we're still (just) on RL and RL-relevant subjects though? Because the list that's generated the pages about Coventry is germane to the situation. 

I just wish for a bit more self-confidence rather than pins in maps. There's no reason N America can't have a professional RL league, but just not this one.

Taking the last 7 pages into account, what *is* the way to expand properly in North America?

As I've asked a couple of times now , is/was the NARL a business only venture ? , Or a genuine attempt at expansion ?

[iffleyox]

19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

As I've asked a couple of times now , is/was the NARL a business only venture ? , Or a genuine attempt at expansion ?

I suspect with a whole continent to play with it should probably be both, but NARL felt like the former 

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

But RL is very much in a ‘beggars can’t be choosers’ situation. It can’t necessarily call the shots if somebody with (genuine) money wanted to get involved, it needs to consider if it’s worth it to have a lot of flexibility in certain cases, in order for the good of the game long term.

It won’t happen and it’s purely a random scenario.....but billionaire Ken Tyke, originally from Wakefield but now in Random Town wants a SL side and is prepared to splash the necessary cash, money is literally not an issue. He’s a lifelong RL fan but has seen what happened to Crusaders and Toronto etc and wants a place at the top table. He’s not interested in working his way up the divisions, but he genuinely has the means to do it.

Do they say ‘No’ as it’s unfair on Keighley?

RL absolutely can call the shots if a rich bloke comes and says he wants to set a team up. 

RL doesn't 'have' to become bigger than it is. It won't die.

[Big Picture]

8 hours ago, iffleyox said:

I'd hope we're still (just) on RL and RL-relevant subjects though? Because the list that's generated the pages about Coventry is germane to the situation. 

I just wish for a bit more self-confidence rather than pins in maps. There's no reason N America can't have a professional RL league, but just not this one.

Taking the last 7 pages into account, what *is* the way to expand properly in North America?

The same route which other sports have taken here: a top-down franchised fully pro major league with the franchises sold to big-money investors who'll get the same legal rights, support from the league office as they set up their franchise, etc. which they'd get if they bought an expansion franchise in one of the established major pro leagues.  Of course such a league would need a unique selling point to stand out from those other major pro leagues, especially as the vast majority over here don't even know that two versions of rugby exist.

[GUBRATS]

55 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

But RL is very much in a ‘beggars can’t be choosers’ situation. It can’t necessarily call the shots if somebody with (genuine) money wanted to get involved, it needs to consider if it’s worth it to have a lot of flexibility in certain cases, in order for the good of the game long term.

It won’t happen and it’s purely a random scenario.....but billionaire Ken Tyke, originally from Wakefield but now in Random Town wants a SL side and is prepared to splash the necessary cash, money is literally not an issue. He’s a lifelong RL fan but has seen what happened to Crusaders and Toronto etc and wants a place at the top table. He’s not interested in working his way up the divisions, but he genuinely has the means to do it.

Do they say ‘No’ as it’s unfair on Keighley?

You mean like David Argyle wanting to buy Leigh , gain a SL place , then move that ' franchise ' to Toronto , dumping the original club back in League 1 ( if they were allowed ) and using it as a reserve team ? Like that ?