Cup final tickets

[Dave T]

21 minutes ago, meast said:

Where have I mentioned scroungers?

I'm just pointing out that if poorer people wanted to attend and buy a £55 ticket they could, they could do what everyone in life has to do, budget and shop accordingly.

I'm pretty sure other events don't sell tickets at a budget price solely to cater for "poor people" so why should Rugby League?

Because it is literally what we have sold ourselves as for decades now. We sell cheap tickets all the time, and that is to cater for these markets. It isn't a load of rich people bargain hunting. 

It is mean spirited to then price your market out of the event. 

[yipyee]

On 03/07/2021 at 06:43, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I’d probably guess it’s down to the fact Wembley is a very expensive stadium to hire, if we only have 40,000 and a load of those people have only paid £20 the Final would probably make a loss, are the Cas and Saints clubs willing to fork out and cover any losses? I very much doubt it. If we have less people in the stadium the fans that are there need to cover the costs of the fans that are missing. 

I believe we’ve sold the lower tier and middle tier first, I expect the majority of the top tier will be closed and not in use, this will also help to keep costs down slightly with less staff needed on matchday. 

Going off the England games all the tiers will be open so fans are sufficiently spaced out

[yipyee]

10 hours ago, Dave T said:

Yes, I take that point, and have acknowledged that this is strange times. But on your last para, if you would normally agree £55 is too expensive, I don't get how it isn't too expensive this time. 

But, happy to disagree, I can understand where people who can afford £55 are coming from. 

£55 and £25 for a family of 6 is £210 that is a season ticket and some at most clubs. Baring in mind Kids season tickets are not much more than £25 at most clubs too.

Then people wonder why no one goes to the CC games.

I think in tonights game they quoted 3k at Barrows game, they left out the kids go free aspect. 

If cup final tickets were £5 for kids or even free with a paying Adult then £55 is acceptable

£55 for 1 person is affordable adding £25 per kid prices out familys which are the future of the fans and keeping the game pro.

I think I read the average ST holder for Liverpool and Man U is 56 years old. There is clearly lost generations of fans going the match and 800 quid plus is too much a step for new fans to take up STs most started going whilst single and budgeted or resold tickets or even a full seasons tickets for a season or 2 during fiscal shock years (new baby years, loss of income years, kids going uni, getting married etc) New fans will not take up that cost and families certainly wont pay 1600 for dad and lad for a season. Is this the way to go for RL?

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

7 hours ago, yipyee said:

£55 and £25 for a family of 6 is £210 that is a season ticket and some at most clubs. Baring in mind Kids season tickets are not much more than £25 at most clubs too.

Then people wonder why no one goes to the CC games.

I think in tonights game they quoted 3k at Barrows game, they left out the kids go free aspect. 

If cup final tickets were £5 for kids or even free with a paying Adult then £55 is acceptable

£55 for 1 person is affordable adding £25 per kid prices out familys which are the future of the fans and keeping the game pro.

I think I read the average ST holder for Liverpool and Man U is 56 years old. There is clearly lost generations of fans going the match and 800 quid plus is too much a step for new fans to take up STs most started going whilst single and budgeted or resold tickets or even a full seasons tickets for a season or 2 during fiscal shock years (new baby years, loss of income years, kids going uni, getting married etc) New fans will not take up that cost and families certainly wont pay 1600 for dad and lad for a season. Is this the way to go for RL?

£5 is a ridiculous suggestion for a Final. Wembley and Old Trafford cost a bomb to hire out, we’d end up making a loss on the Final. You say nobody goes to the Final, but our 2 Finals are our best 2 attended games every year, it’s unbelievable you think tickets should be £5, the cost of 1 pint nowadays. 

For a bit of comparison tickets to the Euro’s Final are selling for between £1800 and £15,000 with no concessions. And 

[Davo5]

Let’s hope the RFL sticks to this policy of rewarding early buyers then charging a decent price for a major showpiece event.

For years this forum has banged on about underselling our major finals and the availability of late,cheap deals and now a lot of those same posters are now whinging about the RFL not doing that very same thing,oh so typical RL.

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Let’s hope the RFL sticks to this policy of rewarding early buyers then charging a decent price for a major showpiece event.

For years this forum has banged on about underselling our major finals and the availability of late,cheap deals and now a lot of those same posters are now whinging about the RFL not doing that very same thing,oh so typical RL.

Agree. Even if you don't quite get capacity you actually achieve more revenue with this method.

[Dave T]

33 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Agree. Even if you don't quite get capacity you actually achieve more revenue with this method.

What's that based on Scubby? 

We got 67k for Wire v Saints with the stepped pricing. How do you know the drop off in crowds that price increases bring will be covered by those increases? 

And people asking for rewarding early purchases - we do that, and have done it for years. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

For years this forum has banged on about underselling our major finals and the availability of late,cheap deals and now a lot of those same posters are now whinging about the RFL not doing that very same thing,oh so typical RL.

Can you provide evidence of this claim? 

And spoiler alert - we have done early bird deals for decades. 

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

£5 is a ridiculous suggestion for a Final. Wembley and Old Trafford cost a bomb to hire out, we’d end up making a loss on the Final. You say nobody goes to the Final, but our 2 Finals are our best 2 attended games every year, it’s unbelievable you think tickets should be £5, the cost of 1 pint nowadays. 

For a bit of comparison tickets to the Euro’s Final are selling for between £1800 and £15,000 with no concessions. And 

Firstly, up until a few weeks ago kids tickets were 7.50

Secondly Saracens sold all tickets at a fiver for wembley games and said 60k was break even therefore selling a limited number of kids tickets at a fiver to encourage more families and not price out the families that go the game week in week is a positive for me! Kids will be taking an adult so a 55 plus a 5 offer is 60 per 2 seats so 30 per ticket which is average for most adult tickets at club grounds.

Lets also remember there is still a huge amount of people on furlough and another huge amount that have been on reduced wages for nearly 18 months now

[Dave T]

Cheap tickets allow you to fill your ground, and then once that demand is generated you can start to drive up prices. Having 23k empty seats at the last normal final should not get people saying 'we need to put prices up'. 

If anybody starts talking about 'prestige' and underselling, etc they are wrong, it's only worth what people will pay. Increasing prices now means they will only ever get 67 or less, maybe a bit more income if the balance is right, but it depends what we want. 

[Scubby]

49 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What's that based on Scubby? 

We got 67k for Wire v Saints with the stepped pricing. How do you know the drop off in crowds that price increases bring will be covered by those increases? 

And people asking for rewarding early purchases - we do that, and have done it for years. 

What I mean is that in the past we have fallen into the trap of doing it both ends. Shafting those who buy early at a discount by some kind of mass fire sale at the end with groupon and the likes. It even got as bad as not opening up parts of the stadium in the beginning so if you bought early, you also got a potentially sub standard seat - and those that waited until the last minute could sit on the half way line via last minute cheap releases.

Hopefully, it rewards people who invested in the event early and keeps the price consistent (so people will continue to buy early and support the events).

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Let’s hope the RFL sticks to this policy of rewarding early buyers then charging a decent price for a major showpiece event.

For years this forum has banged on about underselling our major finals and the availability of late,cheap deals and now a lot of those same posters are now whinging about the RFL not doing that very same thing,oh so typical RL.

I completely agree with your point but to be fair to Dave T I know we've had this debate many times, where I've argued against last minute deals and said it puts people off buying earlier and he has said it hasn't. As the last couple of pages show myself and Dave T are polar opposites on this but as far as I remember he has always been pretty consistent in what he has said.  

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

Firstly, up until a few weeks ago kids tickets were 7.50

Secondly Saracens sold all tickets at a fiver for wembley games and said 60k was break even therefore selling a limited number of kids tickets at a fiver to encourage more families and not price out the families that go the game week in week is a positive for me! Kids will be taking an adult so a 55 plus a 5 offer is 60 per 2 seats so 30 per ticket which is average for most adult tickets at club grounds.

Lets also remember there is still a huge amount of people on furlough and another huge amount that have been on reduced wages for nearly 18 months now

Saracens make an annual loss of about £4m every year. Nothing they do makes a profit or breaks even.

Nobody should be taking any kind of financial advice from them.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

Firstly, up until a few weeks ago kids tickets were 7.50

Secondly Saracens sold all tickets at a fiver for wembley games and said 60k was break even therefore selling a limited number of kids tickets at a fiver to encourage more families and not price out the families that go the game week in week is a positive for me! Kids will be taking an adult so a 55 plus a 5 offer is 60 per 2 seats so 30 per ticket which is average for most adult tickets at club grounds.

Lets also remember there is still a huge amount of people on furlough and another huge amount that have been on reduced wages for nearly 18 months now

So why have them at a fiver? I simply don't believe that any family is that price sensitive that they are put off going to Wembley for £2.50 difference. Its not even the cost of a sandwich on the way. I personally believe half price concessions are very reasonable and this year gave the opportunity for people to purchase at £7.50.

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

So why have them at a fiver? I simply don't believe that any family is that price sensitive that they are put off going to Wembley for £2.50 difference. Its not even the cost of a sandwich on the way. I personally believe half price concessions are very reasonable and this year gave the opportunity for people to purchase at £7.50.

Do kids travel alone? No. It is 2021, we should be able to do a family-based calculation deal by adding 2 adults and 2,3 or 4 kids for example. It is inherently punishing single parents or those with a few kids. In the end we want a younger audience don't we? We don't, however, have to overcharge or give the things away. Theme parks and other event centres manage it quite easily.

We were all kids at some stage and how much have we pumped into the sport since becoming adults?

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

What I mean is that in the past we have fallen into the trap of doing it both ends. Shafting those who buy early at a discount by some kind of mass fire sale at the end with groupon and the likes. It even got as bad as not opening up parts of the stadium in the beginning so if you bought early, you also got a potentially sub standard seat - and those that waited until the last minute could sit on the half way line via last minute cheap releases.

Hopefully, it rewards people who invested in the event early and keeps the price consistent (so people will continue to buy early and support the events).

To be fair, the Groupon issue has been relatively minor, but I agree with the sentiment on that one - we do need to be really careful on how we use stuff like that. Personally I'd only use stuff like that in new geographical areas (or very early in the sales process), and Groupon possibly isn;t the right channel for that - for example - if you are offering cheap late deals - try and focus on that down in Birmingham, Cardiff, London etc - rather than targeting the same fans, but cheaper.

But Groupon hasn't really been a massive feature of Cup Final sales - apart from the Catalans one where that became a huge market.

But the standard BAU approach for a long time now has been early bird discounts, then full RRP as finalists are known. I don't think anybody has an issue with that tbh.

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, Damien said:

So why have them at a fiver? I simply don't believe that any family is that price sensitive that they are put off going to Wembley for £2.50 difference. Its not even the cost of a sandwich on the way. I personally believe half price concessions are very reasonable and this year gave the opportunity for people to purchase at £7.50.

Believe it or not, the kids tickets are a fiver at the lowest end, and as part of the early bird offer they were being sold for £3.75!

I agree 50% concession seems a sensible approach. Cheapest kids tickets would be £10 then.

[Scubby]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, the Groupon issue has been relatively minor, but I agree with the sentiment on that one - we do need to be really careful on how we use stuff like that. Personally I'd only use stuff like that in new geographical areas (or very early in the sales process), and Groupon possibly isn;t the right channel for that - for example - if you are offering cheap late deals - try and focus on that down in Birmingham, Cardiff, London etc - rather than targeting the same fans, but cheaper.

But Groupon hasn't really been a massive feature of Cup Final sales - apart from the Catalans one where that became a huge market.

But the standard BAU approach for a long time now has been early bird discounts, then full RRP as finalists are known. I don't think anybody has an issue with that tbh.

I haven't looked at the CC ticket situation this year but hopefully the stupid (badly planned) policy of trying to man manage which sections open when is a thing of the past. That combined with the things mentioned here created a feeling of resentment to those investing their money and faith buying early.

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Do kids travel alone? No. It is 2021, we should be able to do a family-based calculation deal by adding 2 adults and 2,3 or 4 kids for example. It is inherently punishing single parents or those with a few kids. In the end we want a younger audience don't we? We don't, however, have to overcharge or give the things away. Theme parks and other event centres manage it quite easily.

We were all kids at some stage and how much have we pumped into the sport since becoming adults?

It's interesting that you mention theme parks etc - does anybody ever pay full price for those attractions?

Our standard pricing for kids is very reasonable to be fair - as per my last post £3.75 is probably too cheap tbh, but as long as you have thousands of empty seats, maybe not.

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's interesting that you mention theme parks etc - does anybody ever pay full price for those attractions?

Prices go up and down to be honest. Bit of a rollercoaster trying to find the best time to book

[Dave T]

Just now, Scubby said:

I haven't looked at the CC ticket situation this year but hopefully the stupid (badly planned) policy of trying to man manage which sections open when is a thing of the past. That combined with the things mentioned here created a feeling of resent to those investing their money and faith buying early.

Things like that are part of the problem imho. It's why I am frustrated with the approach of just charging all fans of finalists the Tier 3 price and scrapping everything below that. It's a blunt instrument to deal with the wrong issue. Basically they thought that demand would massively outweigh capacity and thought they could make a cash grab. 

Silly things like micro-managing sections is bizarre - and basically makes it more difficult for customers. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Scubby said:

Prices go up and down to be honest. Bit of a rollercoaster trying to find the best time to book

Buy yourself some Corn Flakes and you'll never pay full price mate

[Scubby]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Things like that are part of the problem imho. It's why I am frustrated with the approach of just charging all fans of finalists the Tier 3 price and scrapping everything below that. It's a blunt instrument to deal with the wrong issue. Basically they thought that demand would massively outweigh capacity and thought they could make a cash grab. 

Silly things like micro-managing sections is bizarre - and basically makes it more difficult for customers. 

It played a big part in a lower crowd at Olympic Park for the 2016 Aus game after a successful NZ game in 2015 IMO. They literally tried to push early buyers behind the posts or lower sections. Result - many people like me waited or delayed and didn't then bother. The game ended up drawing 9k less than the previous year.

[Guest]

If price is an issue - then they might as well hold the final at OT. It looks like the game in London is dying and then the saved travel costs would allow the RFL to charge higher prices and make some money for once.

With crowds of 300 at Broncos - games in London have hardly worked and seem to be a drag on RFL finances.

I know a different point to pricing at Wembley - but still.

 

 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It played a big part in a lower crowd at Olympic Park for the 2016 Aus game after a successful NZ game in 2015 IMO. They literally tried to push early buyers behind the posts or lower sections. Result - many people like me waited or delayed and didn't then bother. The game ended up drawing 9k less than the previous year.

As a bare minimum you should open your expected crowd capacity. If your realistic aim is 40k, there is literally no reason to start off opening with 20k seats. Literally not a single reason.