EURO 2020 ('21) THREAD

[DavidM]

Just now, Maximus Decimus said:

That Gazza miss in Euro 96 still keeps me awake at night.

I can’t watch it or the penalty misses in 90 or 96 . I knock them off 

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

And, to be honest, this is where you need a man like Southgate in charge.

The moron element is already humming the Dambusters theme, making sunbed jokes, repeating the word "Chermans" like it's something new, and plenty more besides.

England don't need to be pumped up, passionate or any of the other nonsense that people who believe games are won by "who wants it more" think. England need to know what they're doing, practice that like mad in the next few days, and then get out there and do it. They absolutely should be favourites.

I don't disagree, but I think many making the point will be looking at a game like England vs Scotland where we were quite clearly out-enthused by a side more motivated than we were. The downside to it is what happened a few days later when Scotland were spent.

We are competitive enough without having to throw the kitchen sink at this one fixture just to get through. We're not at the point where we celebrate a 0-0 with Germany like we've won the trophy.

[Maximus Decimus]

2 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I can’t watch it or the penalty misses in 90 or 96 . I knock them off 

I can accept losing a penalty shootout as it's a lottery. I still can't accept that he isn't going to make it when it's half a yard away.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Maximus Decimus said:

I don't disagree, but I think many making the point will be looking at a game like England vs Scotland where we were quite clearly out-enthused by a side more motivated than we were. The downside to it is what happened a few days later when Scotland were spent.

We are competitive enough without having to throw the kitchen sink at this one fixture just to get through. We're not at the point where we celebrate a 0-0 with Germany like we've won the trophy.

I don't think Scotland were necessarily more motivated than England just that enthusiasm and Braveheart posters was literally all they had to give. And, in the two games either side of it, because that's all they could do, they were deservedly despatched. England's motivation was channeled into producing some of the most boring football ever seen at Wembley but we topped the group so it did its job.

I would not expect a pedestrian display against Germany but nor do I think we really want players running out thumping the Three Lions and roaring something about "this is for Dunkirk, you filthy Hun" ...

[Maximus Decimus]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I don't think Scotland were necessarily more motivated than England just that enthusiasm and Braveheart posters was literally all they had to give. And, in the two games either side of it, because that's all they could do, they were deservedly despatched. England's motivation was channeled into producing some of the most boring football ever seen at Wembley but we topped the group so it did its job.

I would not expect a pedestrian display against Germany but nor do I think we really want players running out thumping the Three Lions and roaring something about "this is for Dunkirk, you filthy Hun" ...

I wouldn't say that any of the 3 games have been out of the extraordinary boring for England matches, not by any stretch!

[DavidM]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

running out thumping the Three Lions and roaring something about "this is for Dunkirk, you filthy Hun" ...

I can’t see this happening , it may cause a diplomatic incident . Plus I’d be surprised if the players had that level of knowledge 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I wouldn't say that any of the 3 games have been out of the extraordinary boring for England matches, not by any stretch!

Yes. There is a reason why the last England friendly I watched would have been 25 years ago and why I rarely bother with the qualifying games.

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, DavidM said:

I’m not saying we’re going do this and that but I think overall the draw has worked out ok for us when you look at it . We’re in the opposite side of the draw to France  , Italy , Belgium and Portugal . This game is gonna be mega hyped up of course , and although I don’t think we’re the greatest I don’t think this is a vintage Germany , and they’ve not had the best time lately so we should be slight favourites with home advantage - which is a big thing in tournaments I reckon . 

Out of curiosity, I took a quick look at the German newspapers to see what their reaction was.

I was shocked to see how joyous it was. It was all about getting on the right side of the draw and avoiding one of the big 4 teams. England are presented as something of a mild challenge in London, but that following that the path to the final is quite clear.

At the time, I was thinking imagine how people would criticise English fans for so openly banging on about an easy path the final before I realised it was Germany and maybe it's OK to talk that way when you've been in so many finals...

[DavidM]

1 minute ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Out of curiosity, I took a quick look at the German newspapers to see what their reaction was.

I was shocked to see how joyous it was. It was all about getting on the right side of the draw and avoiding one of the big 4 teams. England are presented as something of a mild challenge in London, but that following that the path to the final is quite clear.

At the time, I was thinking imagine how people would criticise English fans for so openly banging on about an easy path the final before I realised it was Germany and maybe it's OK to talk that way when you've been in so many finals...

Yep . I can see whoever wins this getting to the Final . 

[DavidM]

It’ll be interesting if we concede first , then our carefully crafted plan will need tweaking 

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Out of curiosity, I took a quick look at the German newspapers to see what their reaction was.

I was shocked to see how joyous it was. It was all about getting on the right side of the draw and avoiding one of the big 4 teams. England are presented as something of a mild challenge in London, but that following that the path to the final is quite clear.

At the time, I was thinking imagine how people would criticise English fans for so openly banging on about an easy path the final before I realised it was Germany and maybe it's OK to talk that way when you've been in so many finals...

My reading of it is that they do see it as a challenge - England being at home in London is key - but not an insurmountable one and definitely on the favourable side of the draw.

Both teams should think they can win as either can. England are the better side to my eye though.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, DavidM said:

It’ll be interesting if we concede first , then our carefully crafted plan will need tweaking 

Plan B involves thumping the badge and getting "the boys" really riled up about the retreat from Dunkirk.

[Maximus Decimus]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

My reading of it is that they do see it as a challenge - England being at home in London is key - but not an insurmountable one and definitely on the favourable side of the draw.

Both teams should think they can win as either can. England are the better side to my eye though.

I watched the German game last night and they were dreadful.

This makes me feel uneasy though, as they can't be that bad again.

England are slight favourites and I'm not surprised, I very much see it as a 50/50 though.

[JohnM]

Er... https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1454049/germany-news-euro-2020-nightmare-angela-merkel-england-clash-wembley-football-spt

[JonM]

Not sure what the problem would be. There's only one more game to be played in Germany - Belgium or Portugal vs Italy or Austria. None of those teams have played in Britain. If Germany win at Wembley and German policy means the German team has to stay abroad during the tournament, I don't see that as a problem for UEFA.

 

[Bleep1673]

Got an 8-way acca bet on Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, France, England & Sweden.

The only one I am concerned about is the England bit. They have not been playing very well, I thing the tennis players at Wimbledon could beat them.

[Maximus Decimus]

49 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

Got an 8-way acca bet on Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, France, England & Sweden.

The only one I am concerned about is the England bit. They have not been playing very well, I thing the tennis players at Wimbledon could beat them.

I'm quite confident from an England perspective based on almost nothing other than the fact that we're way way overdue winning one of these knockout games against a truly big team. I reckon we're on a losing streak of 10 going back to 1970 unless you count Belgium in 90 and Spain in 96 as big games. 

Unless you subscribe to the idea that England never had a chance in any of the big games we lost, then every game has a probability of victory. Even if England were 30/70 to win every time we've played a big country, we're way overdue the odds coming out in our favour. We've beat them in group stages, we've beat them in qualifying and other competitive internationals, it's time to beat them in a knockout!

So there you have it, we'll win because of statistics.

[DavidM]

I read an article by jamie redknapp on the sky website yesterday and I’m shocked to say I agreed with him . He was saying we should go for it . We’ve got great attacking options to trouble and worry defences so use them . Go on the front foot , don’t go out with a whimper saying ‘ what if ? ‘ . You can really get at these . Germans also can’t get their head around sancho not figuring 

[Maximus Decimus]

1 hour ago, DavidM said:

I read an article by jamie redknapp on the sky website yesterday and I’m shocked to say I agreed with him . He was saying we should go for it . We’ve got great attacking options to trouble and worry defences so use them . Go on the front foot , don’t go out with a whimper saying ‘ what if ? ‘ . You can really get at these . Germans also can’t get their head around sancho not figuring 

I completely agree. Much of the criticism aimed at England isn't necessarily because we didn't win but because of the manner of the defeat which often feels like a whimper. 

The example I always use is Argentina in 98. Obviously Beckham's sending off gave people an outlet for anger, but part of this was based on the thought that we were playing well and he'd cost us. The same was true of 90 and 96 when the disappointment was mixed with feelings of what could've been because we'd had a real good go at the Germans.

Apart from maybe 2004, we've played very negatively against big teams and often not really deserved to get to penalties. The one that springs to mind was Italy in 2012 when we were woeful. I was disappointed we'd lost on penalties again but I knew we didn't deserve it. 

To bring it back to Scotland, their fans knew a 0-0 wasn't an amazing result, it was the manner of their performance that earned them pride. If they'd ground out a 0-0 by putting 11 men behind the ball and riding their luck it'd have been a different reaction.

IMO that's all the English public really want, to come away feeling like the better team won on the day not that a group of usually good players had played negative football and gone out with a whimper. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Be amazed if Southgate gives up on his strategy in our toughest test yet.

For what’s it worth I think he’s doing exactly the right thing in order to put us in a position to win a tournament.

I know there’s something deep rooted in the English psyche to see crash, bang, wallop direct football based on power and pace, but it’s outdated in the modern era.

[DavidM]

5 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Be amazed if Southgate gives up on his strategy in our toughest test yet.

For what’s it worth I think he’s doing exactly the right thing in order to put us in a position to win a tournament.

I know there’s something deep rooted in the English psyche to see crash, bang, wallop direct football based on power and pace, but it’s outdated in the modern era.

No , just some invention and purpose of play at   a good tempo which we play in this country . Italy are producing it and look at them traditionally . We have the resources which we’ve rarely had to do just this . If we go out and we haven’t shown barely anything outside this then it’ll be the worst 

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, DavidM said:

No , just some invention and purpose of play at   a good tempo which we play in this country . Italy are producing it and look at them traditionally . We have the resources which we’ve rarely had to do just this . If we go out and we haven’t shown barely anything outside this then it’ll be the worst 

Not think we’re just conserving our energy for the later stages of the tournament?

Even Roberto Mancini the Italian national team coach said the tournament starts now.

The group stage is just a means to an end.

I’d rather we peak at the right time and preserve our energy for the knockouts.

[DavidM]

1 minute ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Not think we’re just conserving our energy for the later stages of the tournament?

Even Roberto Mancini the Italian national team coach said the tournament starts now.

The group stage is just a means to an end.

I’d rather we peak at the right time and preserve our energy for the knockouts.

We’ll see won’t we . For what it’s worth I agree I think Southgate will carry on doing exactly the same thing . If it works fine , if it doesn’t and we haven’t fully utilised our assets in terms of personnel or pace of play  and had a go then it’ll be criminal 

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, DavidM said:

We’ll see won’t we . For what it’s worth I agree I think Southgate will carry on doing exactly the same thing . If it works fine , if it doesn’t and we haven’t fully utilised our assets in terms of personnel or pace of play  and had a go then it’ll be criminal 

We topped the group unbeaten and didn’t concede a goal doing so.

I just don’t see why it’s been disastrous so far.

Should we have wasted more energy to achieve the same result?  Makes no sense to me. 

[DavidM]

11 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

We topped the group unbeaten and didn’t concede a goal doing so.

I just don’t see why it’s been disastrous so far.

Should we have wasted more energy to achieve the same result?  Makes no sense to me. 

Im concentrating on what happens from now . Are we gonna play a different style? That’s the point . We’ll see , but I think this bloke is a conservative boring type who is risk averse . That’ll be a shame but as I say we’ll see