Gerrumonside ref Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 hours ago, nadera78 said: It was interesting to me that the only one of the BBC's highly paid pundits who noticed what had happened halfway through the first half was Jurgen Klinsmann. At half-time he said Italy's best tactic was to continue to overload the wide areas, which is exactly what they did. It was a passing comment and no-one else picked up on it. What Italy did was force our wing backs (Shaw and Trippier) to play deeper, and as a result our two forward support men (Mount and Sterling) had to move to sit alongside the central midfielders. Essentially changing our 3-4-3 formation into a 5-3-1. That gave them the time and space to play the ball in front of us from about minute 20-70, hemming us in, running our legs down and completely changing the nature of the game. It also meant Kane was completely isolated (as well as, frankly, looking completely shagged) and we had no way of relieving the pressure. It was just constant. Southgate, as a cautious man and coach, delayed making any changes because he hoped we could see it out. But you can't give a team like Italy that much ball, territory and time like that. The changes Southgate eventually made did actually work, in that it re-set the game and allowed us to play further forward. Unfortunately it was too late by then, we'd conceded and Italy didn't give us a sniff. I also didn't like the last minute substitutions. Fair enough if you think those guys are our best penalty takers, but 60 seconds at the end of the game isn't enough to find your feet and get up to speed. Penalties are always pot luck, there's no hiding that. That's just one game though. I think Southgate and the whole squad have been excellent throughout the tournament. Hopefully, they will all learn a lesson form the final. If they do, this group has serious potential. Must admit I’ve been impressed with some of Jurgen Klinsmann’s reading of the games and ability to then communicate it to me as a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said: Must admit I’ve been impressed with some of Jurgen Klinsmann’s reading of the games and ability to then communicate it to me as a fan. He said at half time don’t drop deep , go and get the second . But we basically replayed the WC semi . I was bemused by the lack of sub activity to force the game , whereas they were proactive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Southgate more than exceeded my expectations so losing wasn't/isn't as bad as I anticipated. Italia 90 and losing to fax in 2010 & wakey in 98 were way worse for me. We have watched much better England teams over the decades get nowhere near a final. Collectively greater than the sum of their parts. Southgate does not need to prove himself to anyone other than himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, DavidM said: He said at half time don’t drop deep , go and get the second . But we basically replayed the WC semi . I was bemused by the lack of sub activity to force the game , whereas they were proactive It's worth remembering that Italy are and were the better team. Thirty-odd matches unbeaten in international football doesn't just happen by accident. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, gingerjon said: It's worth remembering that Italy are and were the better team. Thirty-odd matches unbeaten in international football doesn't just happen by accident. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadera78 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said: Must admit I’ve been impressed with some of Jurgen Klinsmann’s reading of the games and ability to then communicate it to me as a fan. He's consistently good as a pundit, much better than any of the English ones. I think people overlook his credentials because he had a bit of a mixed record as a coach, but the DFB is perhaps the most impressive governing body in the sport (their coach development programme is second to none) and you don't get to coach Germany if you can't do the job. He's also spent a lot of time working in TV, including in America, so knows how to get his points across. "Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart." Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 If you hadn't been watching listening to or reading about the game but had merely seen the scoreline after 120 mins, you'd have thought the 2 sides were equal. If you only watched the penalty shoot out you'd surely have said WTFF!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleep1673 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Nice to see the English (BBC) media thrashing every little bit of misery out of the football, new bullitens being drenched still, with football stories, Only to be surpassed when the Union guys get sent home for breaching Covid Rules in SA, and when the Olympics are abandoned because of a new outbreak. Then RLWC can be swept under a carpet somewhere on Chapletown Road. F1GBGP this weekend, it will be ignored because Hamilton will not win, BBC have not even reported the last GP, because Hamilton didn't win. I Know it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said: Nice to see the English (BBC) media thrashing every little bit of misery out of the football, new bullitens being drenched still, with football stories, Only to be surpassed when the Union guys get sent home for breaching Covid Rules in SA, and when the Olympics are abandoned because of a new outbreak. Then RLWC can be swept under a carpet somewhere on Chapletown Road. F1GBGP this weekend, it will be ignored because Hamilton will not win, BBC have not even reported the last GP, because Hamilton didn't win. I Know it's not. It will be Christmas before you know it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleep1673 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Scubby said: It will be Christmas before you know it! cH 325 & 326 are showing Christmas films already for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleep1673 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said: Nice to see the English (BBC) media thrashing every little bit of misery out of the football, new bullitens being drenched still, with football stories, Only to be surpassed when the Union guys get sent home for breaching Covid Rules in SA, and when the Olympics are abandoned because of a new outbreak. Then RLWC can be swept under a carpet somewhere on Chapletown Road. F1GBGP this weekend, it will be ignored because Hamilton will not win, BBC have not even reported the last GP, because Hamilton didn't win. I Know it's not. & when the RL World Cup is abandoned, because of covid, it will fill a 10 second spot on Yorkshire news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Bleep1673 said: cH 325 & 326 are showing Christmas films already for you. I think if a sporting event in England can get 31m viewers in 2021 (when people don't even watch TV anymore) then it is probably worth as much coverage as can be ground out of it. That is 4 more million than actually watched the 2020 first Boris lockdown briefing - showing it really is of huge national interest whether we all like it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, Johnoco said: There's also been some excellent analysis on here from contributors. A lot of it as good as the professional pundits. Thanks to all who contributed. A thread where we have avoided pulling each other to bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidi Fidi Gold Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I'd just like to thank Gareth Southgate and the England team for restoring pride and respect into the England team , particularly after South Africa 2010 , Brazil 2014 and Euro 2016 . On a personal note , I've really enjoyed watching England this tournament , obviously it ended in disappointment , but it was quite an achievement to get to the final . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Johnoco said: There's also been some excellent analysis on here from contributors. A lot of it as good as the professional pundits. Thanks to all who contributed. Yes, I have enjoyed reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscoot Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Bleep1673 said: F1GBGP this weekend, it will be ignored because Hamilton will not win, BBC have not even reported the last GP, because Hamilton didn't win. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57713734 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09ncsq8 Surely that was a really easy thing to check before writing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Sidi Fidi Gold said: I'd just like to thank Gareth Southgate and the England team for restoring pride and respect into the England team , particularly after South Africa 2010 , Brazil 2014 and Euro 2016 . On a personal note , I've really enjoyed watching England this tournament , obviously it ended in disappointment , but it was quite an achievement to get to the final . If you think they were bad, you obviously weren't alive in the 1970s. 1972 - Euros, lost in quarter final 1974 - World Cup, failed to qualify 1976 - Euros, failed to qualify 1978 - World Cup, failed to qualify My teenage years of trying to watch England play internationals. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, Johnoco said: One thing..... reading various reaction on SM etc I can conclude that many people....... simply hate the English. I aren't talking about a bit of pee taking here but something more deep rooted. Wanting your team to win is arrogant apparently. It's pretty much centuries of arrogance, entitlement and genuinely horrible behaviour on the world stage that has left us in the state we're in. Recently reinforced by certain Brexity attitudes. I'm not sure what we can do about it - humility isn't one of our national traits. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I've been in Scotland for a month. Listening to some of the bitterness and detestation of England football from certain contributors to BBC Radio Scotland (not the anchors, it had to be said, nor those just having a bit of fun) you can only conclude that they resent us rescuing their country from insolvency over the Darien project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 37 minutes ago, Johnoco said: I'm not sure what I can do about centuries past, nor why leaving the EU would make anyone hate that country. Why did we used to laugh at the 'they bombed our chippy' mentality when that is precisely what this is? Germany and Italy had actual fascist governments way less than centuries ago but that would be seen as odd if you disliked them today over it Maybe it's them who are actually arrogant and just hate the English....just because? And please..... Italians... humble? It's not the decision to leave the EU that was the problem. It was the things that were said around it. Germany in particular has made real efforts to embrace the horrors of its recent past. We glory in ours. I've tried to explain why it's deep rooted and why we struggle to change the perception. By the way, it's not everywhere in the world. However, the way Americans think of us, for example, is somehow worse! "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Johnoco said: Anyway, that aside it was a great tournament and I'm sorry it's over. With tennis ending as well it's gone a bit weird. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Drake Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Keep this thread about football, please. If it veers off into other issues, it'll end up being punted wholesale into the pit of doom that is the politics sub forum. Thanks. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Personal view: Southgate must remain in charge with more or less the same squad, numerous members of which seemed to play better for England than they do for their clubs. Stability, continuity, experience so important. And PULEEZE, no more trick shot penalties. PULEEZE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, JohnM said: Personal view: Southgate must remain in charge with more or less the same squad, numerous members of which seemed to play better for England than they do for their clubs. Stability, continuity, experience so important. And PULEEZE, no more trick shot penalties. PULEEZE!!!! He was 6 inches from it being brilliant. That, and the Stones near-miss header are the fine lines in sport. Having said that, I preferred Harry Maguire's penalty. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Johnoco said: I thought they played very much as a team, much more so than any England team I can remember (off the top of my head anyway) They also played high quality football at times. They've discovered that keeping possession at that level, and having the skill to control the ball and pass it accurately, beats charging around like headless chickens chasing the opponents then giving it straight back to them because your first pass is misdirected. Tactically throughout the tournament Southgate got it right - until the second half last night. Inviting them on and getting 10 or 11 behind the ball may have worked, but sooner or later Italy would get a chance or two. If we'd gambled a bit more, maybe we'd have got a second and that would probably have ended it. Still, as Gareth says, it was his call - as was the penalty taking list. Nice to see someone accept responsibility. I hope he stays on until the next Euros at least. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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