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EURO 2020 ('21) THREAD


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8 minutes ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

Upstairs loo? I thought the whole of the north had outside loos. You must be one of those posh northerners 😉

My house is 110 yrs old. It had an outside khazi that was converted to a shed but we knocked it down in 1993 leaving only the upstairs cludgie. 

I normally have the butler doing a bucket run but I gave him the day off.

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1 minute ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Sorry, I meant from a bookies perspective about who'll be the favourites. 

Ah, understood.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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29 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Ah, understood.

That said, I think Wembley is an advantage. There's a sort of point where the further England go, the pressure starts to decrease.

Most of the pressure IMO comes from England underachieving. There'd be huge disappointment if we lose on Wednesday, and it will represent a missed opportunity but it won't then be met with the sort of criticism that followed exits from 2000-2016. 

In the final, this is even more so. A crowd for a potential final vs Italy/Spain would be a hopeful but not expectant crowd. Personally, I'd just be happy to have seen England in a final. 

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Just now, Maximus Decimus said:

That said, I think Wembley is an advantage. There's a sort of point where the further England go, the pressure starts to decrease.

Most of the pressure IMO comes from England underachieving. There'd be huge disappointment if we lose on Wednesday, and it will represent a missed opportunity but it won't then be met with the sort of criticism that followed exits from 2000-2016. 

In the final, this is even more so. A crowd for a potential final vs Italy/Spain would be a hopeful but not expectant crowd. Personally, I'd just be happy to have seen England in a final. 

Yes, in a bizarre way I'm anxious about Wednesday in a way I don't think I would be for a final. I've seen England lose three semi finals now and each has been massively dispiriting. I expect that the majority of the crowd will also be feeling that anxiety.

What I keep saying about all of this though is that if there's one thing Southgate does well it is grounding the team so, hopefully, all of our talk about advantages and disadvantages of home/away/noisy/worried is irrelevant.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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33 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, in a bizarre way I'm anxious about Wednesday in a way I don't think I would be for a final. I've seen England lose three semi finals now and each has been massively dispiriting. I expect that the majority of the crowd will also be feeling that anxiety.

What I keep saying about all of this though is that if there's one thing Southgate does well it is grounding the team so, hopefully, all of our talk about advantages and disadvantages of home/away/noisy/worried is irrelevant.

I agree, I'm more concerned about the semi than if we were in the final. I think that's probably because I've seen England get to semis before and so it perhaps feels like a bit of a barrier we haven't been able to break through, at least in my lifetime, and so I know we can come up short at this point. I probably feel this way as well because of the opposition we are facing, Denmark are very much a team we should be beating and so I feel there is actually more pressure on the semi than the final. 

However, getting to a final is something I never thought I would see England do and so just getting there would be like a tournament win for me and also playing one of Italy or Spain I'm not going to be hugely confident of a win anyway, given how often I've seen us lose to those particular teams. I don't expect that there would be much pressure on England in the final, given that it would be new territory for almost every England fan and so expectancy levels shouldn't be as high. 

Edited by The Hallucinating Goose
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4 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

That said, I think Wembley is an advantage. There's a sort of point where the further England go, the pressure starts to decrease.

Most of the pressure IMO comes from England underachieving. There'd be huge disappointment if we lose on Wednesday, and it will represent a missed opportunity but it won't then be met with the sort of criticism that followed exits from 2000-2016. 

In the final, this is even more so. A crowd for a potential final vs Italy/Spain would be a hopeful but not expectant crowd. Personally, I'd just be happy to have seen England in a final. 

 

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, in a bizarre way I'm anxious about Wednesday in a way I don't think I would be for a final. I've seen England lose three semi finals now and each has been massively dispiriting. I expect that the majority of the crowd will also be feeling that anxiety.

What I keep saying about all of this though is that if there's one thing Southgate does well it is grounding the team so, hopefully, all of our talk about advantages and disadvantages of home/away/noisy/worried is irrelevant.

A big advantage is that England are travelling to Wembley from Rome rather than Baku.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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2 hours ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

Thinking about the semi-final, I'm confident and wary at the same time.

However I am definitely enjoying the ride! 😀 

Yeh I'd argue that it's a tad more enjoyable than losing in the second round to Iceland!

I spoke about the odds meaning we would eventually beat a big team in a knockout game, the same is true for semi-finals. Including the nations league, we've lost 5 semi-finals in a row. Although as England fans we like to think this was inevitable, that's pretty unlikely even if we only had 30% of winning each.

Long and short, it has to end sometime! 

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8 hours ago, gingerjon said:

in a bizarre way I'm anxious about Wednesday in a way I don't think I would be for a final.

I think that would change if we were to reach the final. Suddenly we'd be one game away from actually winning a major tournament. That surely would bring on huge levels on anxiety. I know it would for me.

I was pretty calm against Ukraine as I was confident we'd win that game. I'm less confident against Denmark, but I still think we'll win. The Germany game was the one that I had most anxiety about, as I felt it was a 50/50 chance. Plus after Netherlands were out, I thought the winner of that game would reach the final. That gave it even more significance.

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In club sport terms losing a semi final has alway been the worst point to go out of a comp , even if you make the final and lose you still get the big day out , I went to the last semi final Man Utd lost for something like 30 years in 75 , it was in the League cup to Norwich , after that they had an incredible run to the mid 00s 

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10 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

I think that would change if we were to reach the final. Suddenly we'd be one game away from actually winning a major tournament. That surely would bring on huge levels on anxiety. I know it would for me.

I was pretty calm against Ukraine as I was confident we'd win that game. I'm less confident against Denmark, but I still think we'll win. The Germany game was the one that I had most anxiety about, as I felt it was a 50/50 chance. Plus after Netherlands were out, I thought the winner of that game would reach the final. That gave it even more significance.

I don't think I'd be anxious at all about a final. I'd be invested in wanting us to win but finally reaching a final after 55 years would be an achievement. Importantly, from a player POV, there wouldn't be much pressure from the crowd like there could've been against Germany. 

Wednesday will be nervy but even then it won't be as nervy for me as Germany or even Ukraine at first. Failures at those levels represent underachievement rather than just disappointment.

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the players have played in plenty of situations from play off promotion games to champions league semis and finals- they have been through all this before as individuals at their clubs- the mentality should be the same

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did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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"“You want players to connect to the team in a multitude of ways. Someone like Raheem Sterling is a proud Englishman, but he was born in Jamaica and he’s rightly very proud of his Jamaican roots. He might identify more with those values than with certain traditions, outdated English perceptions of what the England team’s values should be. We wanted to reflect what the England football team means to people in the 21st century and what it should look like to those players within the squad.”"

How England changed their culture and restored a long-lost sense of identity

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

"“You want players to connect to the team in a multitude of ways. Someone like Raheem Sterling is a proud Englishman, but he was born in Jamaica and he’s rightly very proud of his Jamaican roots. He might identify more with those values than with certain traditions, outdated English perceptions of what the England team’s values should be. We wanted to reflect what the England football team means to people in the 21st century and what it should look like to those players within the squad.”"

How England changed their culture and restored a long-lost sense of identity

For some reason I can't seem to read this article but the issue of representative sport is one I've always found interesting and I'm still quite particular about who I think should be able to represent a country from a moral perspective.

Funnily enough I was flicking through last night when the tennis came on and Raducanu was playing. I'd heard she was from Canada so wasn't too interested, as I presumed she was a Greg Rusedski type of English. When I heard she'd lived in England since the age of 2 I didn't have a problem. This is similar to how I feel about Sterling. If you've been brought up in England, went to an English school, been brought through the English sporting system then you're as English as any other. I currently teach children from Slovakia, Poland and Hong Kong and they're all cheering for England at the moment because their friends are. After all, what most nationality boils down to is a shared experience based around a set place. I don't see a conflict in split identities: my own children are half-Irish and will inevitably feel this more as they get older whilst still probably supporting England.

On the other side, I can understand how people can feel English despite being brought up elsewhere. I have cousins who emigrated to Canada as young children and they all see themselves as English. That's understandable too, especially when your parents and wider family are all English. A good example of this is Kevin Kilbane, he grew up with Irish parents supporting Ireland - England was never a thought to him.

Other than that I tend to have issues. Anybody that chooses a country to represent out of a career choice rather than primary affinity I find hard to support. As somebody who had lived in another country, I don't honestly think I could've ever represented Ireland at anything without feeling like a fraud or faintly embarrassed. Also, whilst I understand the parent/grandparent rule and think it should stand I think it is all too often abused. Look at our very own Declan Rice who played 3 times for ROI, he's clearly an England fan who took the chance to leave when he could. 

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2 hours ago, DavidM said:

Commentator said something about Laporte there , and in premier league commentaries theyve often said he’s French 

He's Basque , dual nationality , waited a few years to be picked for France , then turned to the Spanish 

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Said to my son that Spain needed to finish them off , they were looking to bring Traore on just before the equaliser , he would have given the tiring Italian defence a different problem 

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From a Danish/English perspective, it was good to see it go to extra time.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Also, no nation that has lost the Euros final still exists as a real nation forty years later. This is high stakes.

Edited by Bob8

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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27 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Also, no nation that has lost the Euros final still exists as a real nation forty years later. This is high stakes.

This is quite an anti-Belgian statement.

Funnily enough, until looking this up I didn't realise how bad a record the Italians have at the Euros having only won it once when it was a 4 team tournament. They'll certainly be looking at this as their best chance in a while.

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