GUBRATS Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Given Southgates experience of penalty shootouts , you'd have thought he'd have done everything and anything to avoid one , but he essentially did nothing , and again , surely he was aware of the Italian goalkeepers success with them , but did zilch to avoid it Over with now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Given Southgates experience of penalty shootouts , you'd have thought he'd have done everything and anything to avoid one , but he essentially did nothing , and again , surely he was aware of the Italian goalkeepers success with them , but did zilch to avoid it Over with now Tbh I was thinking the same , please go for it even if we go overboard attacking wise and they break away and score . I’d seen their mentality before the spain pens and that goalie totally blocking the goal , added to our history . Once it was drifting that way I thought I know what’s coming here … probably not the only one . They seemed much more content to go that route . But as you say , it’s chip paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Johnoco said: Yes. I remember the 1982 WC and the song 'This Time' and it felt like an eternity since they had been in one. Which when you are young, it is. I forgot about the 1980 Euros where we qualified, lost to Italy as usual, failed to beat Belgium and then rioted, throwing tear gas canisters onto the pitch. Because England weren't playing, the BBC didn't show the 3rd v 4th match. Not wanting to veer into the reasons for the lack of love for England, but... The 70s was also the scene of the Revie debacle. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 12 hours ago, Wiltshire Rhino said: Speaking of next time... ...the next step in UEFA's Respect campaign, following on from players taking the knee and wearing the rainbow armband, should be insisting that their member countries boycott the Qatar World Cup. If they took this stance, it could make a difference. Of course they won't do that but it would be great if they did. I'm conflicted between wanting the World Cup and hating the incredibly corrupt awarding of it to Qatar. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Johnoco said: On reflection I aren’t sure what would have been worse. Losing 4-0 and knowing you were the worse side - or being so close you couldn’t get a cig paper between them. Feel way more gutted than I should be as I wasn’t particularly interested in the run up to this tournament but it’s been great. All day I've been saying that I wish we'd have lost 2-0 and comfortably. Coming close before losing on pens again was just so cruel. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, tim2 said: If you think they were bad, you obviously weren't alive in the 1970s. 1972 - Euros, lost in quarter final 1974 - World Cup, failed to qualify 1976 - Euros, failed to qualify 1978 - World Cup, failed to qualify My teenage years of trying to watch England play internationals. Whilst I'm sure it was disappointing, it was definitely more difficult, or at least more of a lottery to qualify then. Imagine a situation where either us or Italy qualified for the WC. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, tim2 said: He was 6 inches from it being brilliant. That, and the Stones near-miss header are the fine lines in sport. Having said that, I preferred Harry Maguire's penalty. It was a million miles from being brilliant. This madassed technique was never going to work. My wife, who knows even less about this stuff than I do, was screaming Noooooooooo! as soon as he started his run up. It had failure stamped on it from the very first step. My mate Mike, who is a lifetime United fan and season ticket holder and was at the game, blames Pogba for influencing/teaching Rashford. Marcus is better than this, far better and I'm sure he won't do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumby Magic Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 It was weird and I'm an optimist but explaining to my lass and her daughter who never watch much about Italy and us and it unfortunately panned out that way. Southgate has taken the wrap about picking the penalty takers. A major final is not the time to try something different. It's took 55 years to get there but who's to say how long till the next. Saka wasnt involved in this game much and it surprised me he was picked to take one. I'd have had Rashford all day to take one. Southgate said he picked them from the training park. So say Lineker and Shearer were poor in training youd still pick them. Sterling, Henderson shud have been certs. Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidi Fidi Gold Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 hours ago, tim2 said: If you think they were bad, you obviously weren't alive in the 1970s. 1972 - Euros, lost in quarter final 1974 - World Cup, failed to qualify 1976 - Euros, failed to qualify 1978 - World Cup, failed to qualify My teenage years of trying to watch England play internationals. Only the top team in each group qualified for 74 and 78 world cup , I was too young to remember the 74 world cup but I've seen the highlights where we absolutely battered Poland but couldn't win , it turned out that Poland weren't too bad a side , I've read reports that when Poland played West Germany to see who progressed to the 1974 final , that it threw it down the entire game , and that if it had been dry it could well have been a Poland v Netherland Final , as for 78 , we were in the same group as Italy . Also , the 72 and 76 Euro's were 4 team tournaments . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidi Fidi Gold Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, JohnM said: Personal view: Southgate must remain in charge with more or less the same squad, numerous members of which seemed to play better for England than they do for their clubs. Stability, continuity, experience so important. And PULEEZE, no more trick shot penalties. PULEEZE!!!! Agree with this , England has a wealth of young talent , both inside and outside the current squad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidi Fidi Gold Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Johnoco said: Yes. I remember the 1982 WC and the song 'This Time' and it felt like an eternity since they had been in one. Which when you are young, it is. We almost didn't make it to the 82 WC , Romania only needed a win and a draw to qualify but could only manage 2 draws and a loss , this allowed England to qualify by beating Hungary . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidi Fidi Gold Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Johnoco said: The Poland game for qualification for the 74 WC was the one where Brian Clough famously called their keeper (Jan Tomaceski) a clown. He went on to play a blinder and made a load of stunning saves. I remember it seeming like the end of the world when England didn't qualify for the 74 WC but it went on to be a fantastic tournament and it is still my personal favourite. I've seen that clough interview too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnM said: It was a million miles from being brilliant. This madassed technique was never going to work. My wife, who knows even less about this stuff than I do, was screaming Noooooooooo! as soon as he started his run up. It had failure stamped on it from the very first step. My mate Mike, who is a lifetime United fan and season ticket holder and was at the game, blames Pogba for influencing/teaching Rashford. Marcus is better than this, far better and I'm sure he won't do it again. Sancho and Saka took normal pens and they didn't work either. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Sidi Fidi Gold said: Only the top team in each group qualified for 74 and 78 world cup , I was too young to remember the 74 world cup but I've seen the highlights where we absolutely battered Poland but couldn't win , it turned out that Poland weren't too bad a side , I've read reports that when Poland played West Germany to see who progressed to the 1974 final , that it threw it down the entire game , and that if it had been dry it could well have been a Poland v Netherland Final , as for 78 , we were in the same group as Italy . Also , the 72 and 76 Euro's were 4 team tournaments . Didn't say the other teams weren't good, and it certainly made watching the tournaments less stressful. Scotland qualified for both those World Cups. We didn't make the last 8 in 76. In general more countries are a higher standard now than back then, as their best players play in international leagues rather than national ones. Although the Soviet Union (who won it in 1960) haven't been the same since it split up, and Yugoslavia (who beat us in the semi in 1968) would have a heck of a team now if you put all the former republics' players together. The early 60s saw a couple of high profile withdrawals from the Euros. Franco's Spain refused to travel to the USSR and Greece refused to play Albania. Now UEFA and FIFA simply rig the draw in advance. That's keeping politics out of sport! "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 One final comment from me (yeah, right - Ed.) the officiating was excellent throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, JohnM said: One final comment from me (yeah, right - Ed.) the officiating was excellent throughout. Indeed , I was impressed last night how the ref just ignored players throwing themselves to the floor after they'd lost the ball , the Italians sussed him quite quickly and stopped doing it , Stirling eventually realised , it took Kane a bit longer Overall though they've been excellent , and that include VAR as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industria ditat Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Irish Saint said: Listened to Gary Neville on Sky tonight basically state when the Prime Minister of the country refused to condemn the fans who booed the taking of the knee then what message is this putting across. Brazil 70 and Holland 74 indeed they were the beautiful game imo. The Brazil team of '82 was the team I always go back to when I want to see how football should be played. If England ever play like that I'll be happy to watch them win, lose or draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef K Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 To take the pressure off the players in penalty shootouts, each side should be able to pick eleven supporters from there opposing fans. Each one has too wear a “it’s a knockout” costume when taking the penalties, so it takes away the stress of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, tim2 said: Sancho and Saka took normal pens and they didn't work either. Quite so. Saka is 19 and it seems has never taken a penalty for his own club. Plus, he'd been loaded with having to make up for the previous two misses. Saka as a player has in my opinion, a great future with England. A breath of fresh air, pace and enthusiasm...provided this hasn't knocked his confidence. There is no avoiding the issue, the vastly more experienced Rashford, (valued and rewarded by his own club to the tune of £200,000 a week so clearly and rightfully well respected by United) had a brain fart that immediately increased the pressure on anyone following him. still, the best England manager and team since Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I don't blame any player taking a penalty in a shoot out for anything , I do find it strange the coach deciding who those players are however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Drake Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 A few posts deleted. Just to repeat from earlier, please keep this thread about the actual football, the game, the stuff on the pitch. If you want to discuss the rest of the fallout from the tournament, including players reacting to comments from politicians, there's another place for that on TRL. Thanks. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 8 hours ago, JohnM said: There is no avoiding the issue, the vastly more experienced Rashford, (valued and rewarded by his own club to the tune of £200,000 a week so clearly and rightfully well respected by United) had a brain fart that immediately increased the pressure on anyone following him. Is that out of the ordinary in modern football terms? How much is the goalkeeper had to put the ball past paid? How much the England manager and coaching staff who will be the ones who trained him for that moment? Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Rashford had been in United's academy system since the age of seven. He's had a stellar career and no doubt that will continue. He's been lauded by Ronaldo, Ibramovitch and others. He's highly paid because United value him highly and justifiably so. A talent nurtured, protected, educated, training and coached at arguably the world's biggest soccer club, at least by their financials. He's not some park player who's struck it lucky. Like his colleagues, he's skilled, he's capable, he's used to the pressure to perform alongside other equally motivated and rewarded players, otherwise he'd not be at United. So why the brain fart on Sunday and why is it wrong to criticise him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, JohnM said: Rashford had been in United's academy system since the age of seven. He's had a stellar career and no doubt that will continue. He's been lauded by Ronaldo, Ibramovitch and others. He's highly paid because United value him highly and justifiably so. A talent nurtured, protected, educated, training and coached at arguably the world's biggest soccer club, at least by their financials. He's not some park player who's struck it lucky. Like his colleagues, he's skilled, he's capable, he's used to the pressure to perform alongside other equally motivated and rewarded players, otherwise he'd not be at United. So why the brain fart on Sunday and why is it wrong to criticise him? It’s wrong to criticise an individual for a collective failure. Rashford missed with his kick, but the entire team put themselves in a position where the match was decided by penalties. As a group they can be criticised for their joint failure to put the game away in 90 minutes but no individual should carry the can for the loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, Shadow said: It’s wrong to criticise an individual for a collective failure. Rashford missed with his kick, but the entire team put themselves in a position where the match was decided by penalties. As a group they can be criticised for their joint failure to put the game away in 90 minutes but no individual should carry the can for the loss. It should also be mentioned that he hadn't played for almost the entire tournament. The idea of bringing him on in the final minute for a penalty shootout is almost absurd. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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