Phil Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 On 12/06/2021 at 12:44, Johnoco said: Certainly Bradford and I'm sure other cities, are now suffering from the scourge of the planners in the 60's and 70's. Magnificent buildings torn down to be replaced by concrete boxes that have mostly already been demolished themselves. The author JB Priestley supposedly never forgave Bradford for demolishing the Swan Arcade and there's numerous other examples of such folly. Sure, times change but that was just madness. Leeds would have been as bad because they planned to demolish the market and the Victoria arcade. The only reason they didn't go through with it was not vision or anything, they just couldn't afford to pay the demolition contractors to do it! I know this because I used to work in demolition for the company concerned. This is so sadly true, Halifax for all its faults managed to avoid the wholesale demolition of most of its historic town centre, The Piece Hall only survived being demolished by one vote in a council meeting, and we still have a great indoor market hall, although it’s mainly non-food these days "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Town centres in there traditional format are done and dusted with the odd exception. I'd have thought the only future would be to slowly integrate residential property into future redevelopment projects and then the towns will naturally regenerate providing goods and services that local residents want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Johnoco said: Even contemplating demolishing the Piece Hall should be punishable by flogging. What on earth were they thinking of back then? They wanted to build an Arndale centre "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 City/town centre landlords need to realise that charging less and actually having tenants that can pay is better than asking for the moon and sitting on empty properties. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, Futtocks said: City/town centre landlords need to realise that charging less and actually having tenants that can pay is better than asking for the moon and sitting on empty properties. I have been a landlord for 20 years , I charge around 90% of the going rate , the property has been empty for about 6 months after the first 3 tenants , I spent that time refurbishing it , the latest has been in for around 6 years now , and as they are retired , will be in until they no longer are around , so 6 months empty out of 20 years is a very positive return IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Just an interest fact when looking at accomodation for asylum seekers and refugees , more asylum seekers are housed in Stoke on Trent , than the whole of the country south of Stoke on Trent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 7 hours ago, GUBRATS said: Just an interest fact when looking at accomodation for asylum seekers and refugees , more asylum seekers are housed in Stoke on Trent , than the whole of the country south of Stoke on Trent Facts that aren't true aren't facts. There are c.900 asylum seekers housed in Stoke. There are over 5,600 in London. 5,600 is a bigger number than 900 and London is south of Stoke. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 did Dewsbury suck the life out of Batley or did Batley suck the life out of Dewsbury? see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 On 12/06/2021 at 05:32, Spidey said: Our town centre in Warrington is currently going through a facelift. The old market was replaced and a new town centre cinema and retail units added. The council do seem to be trying to change the image and tone, and it’s very welcome to do by me An example of the kind of developments going on in Warrington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 On 13/06/2021 at 15:52, Phil said: This is so sadly true, Halifax for all its faults managed to avoid the wholesale demolition of most of its historic town centre, The Piece Hall only survived being demolished by one vote in a council meeting, and we still have a great indoor market hall, although it’s mainly non-food these days Wakefield is similar. You can see there are still some glimpses of the market town with medieval roots, but the 1960s and 70s architecturally hit the town so hard (on top of everything else). Thankfully some steps are being done to rectify this. Terrible post war buildings are currently being earmarked for demolition and the council are working with local civic big wigs to help the regeneration - that is moving increasingly down towards Kirkgate which has been a part of the town centre which is notoriously rough. Aside from that, the city centre has a thriving independent restaurant, cafe and pub scene; far more so than Leeds where generally only bigger operations can afford to be in the centre. It feels far more like Headingley in some aspects. It has to be said that Wakefield benefits in some ways from its proximity to Leeds compared to other places near big cities. Its probably the only example in West Yorkshire of a seriously well connected satellite town. Trains, buses and road connections to Leeds makes commuting not just possible but preferable for many given the comparative cost of living. Combined with Wakefield still retaining the last embers of a historic prominence (county capital etc) that towns like Castleford or St Helens haven't ever had, and you can see why I'm a bit more optimistic for Wakey than some other places. Though that is only fragile optimism. Perhaps the lesson here is that these towns have to reinvent themselves by being something a bit different? If you're just Leeds but less good, then that will show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 11 hours ago, gingerjon said: Facts that aren't true aren't facts. There are c.900 asylum seekers housed in Stoke. There are over 5,600 in London. 5,600 is a bigger number than 900 and London is south of Stoke. My info was from a couple of years back , the north must be full now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 On 13/06/2021 at 23:11, Futtocks said: City/town centre landlords need to realise that charging less and actually having tenants that can pay is better than asking for the moon and sitting on empty properties. They don't care if is just an asset used to borrow money against to buy into the next trend. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 On 14/06/2021 at 18:20, GUBRATS said: My info was from a couple of years back , the north must be full now Lesson you have just been taught is, all together now, check your facts. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 The decline of town centres goes back further than people think, the advent of the supermarket probably kicked off the trend. Small town centre retailers selling general groceries probably took the first hit and next where the butchers and bakers. As supermarkets became larger and could influence politicians they moved into alcohol, books, clothing. Once they had the influence and backing large out of town super markets with mass free parking sucked the life out of a lot of small general retail. The rest follows on from there. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, Padge said: Lesson you have just been taught is, all together now, check your facts. I did , a couple of years back , it was point being made on a politics show , one was that the current ( then ) PM didn't have a single asylum seeker in her constitutency And if I'm wrong , really couldn't give a toss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 hours ago, GUBRATS said: I did , a couple of years back , it was point being made on a politics show , one was that the current ( then ) PM didn't have a single asylum seeker in her constitutency And if I'm wrong , really couldn't give a toss So if someone says that the population of the UK is 47million, that is a fact because the last time they checked was in 1975' Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 12 hours ago, GUBRATS said: And if I'm wrong , really couldn't give a toss Noted Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Padge said: The decline of town centres goes back further than people think, the advent of the supermarket probably kicked off the trend. Small town centre retailers selling general groceries probably took the first hit and next where the butchers and bakers. As supermarkets became larger and could influence politicians they moved into alcohol, books, clothing. Once they had the influence and backing large out of town super markets with mass free parking sucked the life out of a lot of small general retail. The rest follows on from there. I am older than most people alive today, and it has been going on since I can remember. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Padge said: The decline of town centres goes back further than people think, the advent of the supermarket probably kicked off the trend. Small town centre retailers selling general groceries probably took the first hit and next where the butchers and bakers. As supermarkets became larger and could influence politicians they moved into alcohol, books, clothing. Once they had the influence and backing large out of town super markets with mass free parking sucked the life out of a lot of small general retail. The rest follows on from there. I think this is fair. I'm old enough - just - to remember most parades of shops (not even town centre ones) having at least a greengrocer, newsagent, post office, butcher, hairdressers, off licence each and then possibly a couple of other oddities (one of the ones near us when I was about 6 had a shoe shop). Actually going into town was a pain. The equivalent parade now has, yes, the hairdressers still but the rest is now tanning shops and the like. So you then had the move to more centralised shopping - those branches of Tesco just on the town/city centres for example - and then the move to out of town places. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklaspalmas Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Illuminating, yet depressing thread. Thanks guys. Side note: I always thought the make a fact true wasn't about checking if the stats were up to date and all that faff, but simply type FACT!, with or without the "end of". #TRLtraditions https://www.fevarchive.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adelaide Tiger Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 On 14/06/2021 at 01:56, shrek said: Town centres in there traditional format are done and dusted with the odd exception. I'd have thought the only future would be to slowly integrate residential property into future redevelopment projects and then the towns will naturally regenerate providing goods and services that local residents want. In the late 90’s I worked in the Planning and Regeneration Department of Wakefield MDC when an application was submitted for the Freeport Development - now called Junction 32 that now includes XScape - to the south of Castleford. I remember a discussion - during the Freeport application process- where the Head of the Planning Team dealing with the application suggested that the Council should refuse the Freeport application and instead build a new town centre on the land designated for the Freeport development and knock down the existing town centre for housing and leisure facilities. He based his rationale on the changing environment for town centre usage and the fact that Cas town centre had no large blocks of land that could be utilised for large retail organisations to invigorate the town. A new build town centre would have been designed to accomodate the changing needs of shoppers and would have been more adaptable to subsequent changing trends. It would have been interesting if the Council had suggested the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleep1673 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 I think Hastings TC has always been declared as "In Decline", but apart from Debenhams, there hasn't been too many shops being closed, I think we have ridden the storm quite well in the last 12 months overall. Oh, and Argos being moved out of the TC to Sainsbury's, like a lot of places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Bleep1673 said: I think Hastings TC has always been declared as "In Decline", but apart from Debenhams, there hasn't been too many shops being closed, I think we have ridden the storm quite well in the last 12 months overall. Oh, and Argos being moved out of the TC to Sainsbury's, like a lot of places. We have a very nice Primark. One of the odd things I noted about Hastings town centre is how few shops there are (were) in the first place. There really aren't a whole host of units. There are a few around Priory Meadow that are empty and have been for a while - and the empty Argos and Debenhams do look bleak now. Argos is in a good place and would be a good spot for someone to run something seafront themed; Debenhams has the potential to be converted for housing. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 In Wakefield, the flagship new (well less than 15 year old) town centre shopping precinct has lost Debenhams, TopShop, TopMan and Pizza Express in the past year, along with some smaller retailers. That's after losing BHS from the high street some years ago. These were flagship shops for the retail developments they were in and the city centre as a whole. None of these shops have been replaced and all stand empty like gaping chasms. (HMV was to be fair so I didn't include that on the list). Sadly I think this will be a story echoed around the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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