Twenty five years from now

[Liverpool Rover]

Hopefully SL bosses may have finally realised that in a world where you can watch Man Utd v Bayern Munich or Leicester v Toulon, a league where teams from around the M62 play each other 4 times a year doesn’t really cut it anymore.

Catalans Toulouse and maybe a third team will be in Super League along with maybe one or two North American teams after the league at last realised what having NA based teams can do to the profile of the league and giving it the international competition that television likes.

By then RL might have taken the drastic step of reverting back to being part time to curb the number of weights and tackling sessions that players do during the week to limit the amount of tackling and their impacts on players if more info on the effects of head injuries comes to light. It would be like RU back in the day as players would be given posh job titles and a high salary but they would just spend all day playing Football Manager 2046.

[Big Picture]

32 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

Hopefully SL bosses may have finally realised that in a world where you can watch Man Utd v Bayern Munich or Leicester v Toulon, a league where teams from around the M62 play each other 4 times a year doesn’t really cut it anymore.

Catalans Toulouse and maybe a third team will be in Super League along with maybe one or two North American teams after the league at last realised what having NA based teams can do to the profile of the league and giving it the international competition that television likes.

By then RL might have taken the drastic step of reverting back to being part time to curb the number of weights and tackling sessions that players do during the week to limit the amount of tackling and their impacts on players if more info on the effects of head injuries comes to light. It would be like RU back in the day as players would be given posh job titles and a high salary but they would just spend all day playing Football Manager 2046.

And even if they have what then?  How would adding Toulouse, Newcastle and a couple of other well known cities onto an M62-based league measure up against Man Utd vs Bayern Munich, Leicester vs Toulon etc?  I think we both know the answer: it wouldn't be nearly good enough. Not even close to good enough in fact.

RL can't seriously compete with the likes of Man Utd vs Bayern Munich, Leicester vs Toulon etc. without a whole new built-for-purpose franchised league set up to deliver comparable matches week in and week out, and that's just how it is.

[Liverpool Rover]

7 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

And even if they have what then?  How would adding Toulouse, Newcastle and a couple of other cities onto an M62-based league measure up against Man Utd vs Bayern Munich, Leicester vs Toulon etc?  I think we both know the answer: it wouldn't be nearly good enough. Not even close to good enough in fact.

RL can't seriously compete with the likes of Man Utd vs Bayern Munich, Leicester vs Toulon etc. without a whole new built-for-purpose franchised league set up to deliver comparable matches week and week out, and that's just how it is.

It would be a start. I doubt that there would be enough room for all the current SL teams and any more teams from France and elsewhere overseas so it wouldn’t as much of an M62 based league as it is now.

[Big Picture]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

It would be a start. I doubt that there would be enough room for all the current SL teams and any more teams from France and elsewhere overseas so it wouldn’t as much of an M62 based league as it is now.

Not much of a start though.  40 years of experience in London shows that the population in those places couldn't be bothered turning out to see a team there play the likes of Warrington, Wigan and St Helens even before the likes of Man Utd vs Bayern Munich, Leicester vs Toulon etc. came to be seen as standard fare.  Even the top teams in the current structure don't have what it takes to cut through the wall of indifference/lack of awareness/prejudice which has always hemmed the sport in in Britain, so the idea of a league with teams like them and some big cities added on could cut it is fanciful at best.

[The Frying Scotsman]

Don't worry: In 25 years time, the Super League will still exist. Financial differences mean it will be seen as a kind of minor league "feeder competition" for rugby union's premiership, a bit like the CFL is to the NFL. 

The League will be made up of 2 teams from Hull, 3 teams from the Greater Wakefield area, 2 teams from Wigan, St Helens, Warrington and Leeds.

These 10 clubs are permanent franchises, and will not change, as below SuperLeague is a dwindling network of amateur leagues containing clubs such as Bramley, Latchford Albion, Wigan St Pats, Halifax, Workington and Bradford. These clubs are run by enthusiasts, keeping the sport alive. It was last played in a school nearly 15 years ago. 

The aging fanbase will reminisce about how the great Catalan Dragons team won a dynasty of championships in the 2020s but sadly went out of existence shortly afterwards as their benefactor gave up the ghost due to no other French clubs being allowed to join, leaving them isolated and unable to attract a broadcast partner. 

Matches will be shown live on an app called something like LiveSport, which has picked up the rights for Rugby League, pool, pétanque, biathlon and beach soccer. Beach soccer is by far the the most popular sport on the app.   The Super League rights are split between the app and a television channel who broadcast exclusively in betting shops and on online gambling platforms. 

England will periodically form a national team and play a disorganised series of international matches at lower league football stadiums. Their fans are known to talk fondly of the time when they last beat Australia (in 2006, when the England team was known as Great Britain). The last game between the two sides was a 62-4 walkover for the Kangaroos 3 years previously. 

Numerous suggestions have been made to try to grow the footprint of the game (it is completely non-existent in the cities of Manchester and Liverpool by this time) but the fanbase prefers to have derby matches between Featherstone' and Castleford, or Leigh and Wigan, so have turned down suggestions of introducing "foreign" teams, and the sport in France now exists in a completely separate world due to the UK's ongoing lack of co-operation with its EU neighbours.

The sport is not subject to the sort of sneering attitude that it was in previous decades. This is because it is simply unknown outside of the 3 main outposts of Hull, Wakefield and Wigan/Warrington. This does not bother the majority of its fans, who are happy to see their local team take the field on a Thursday night, straight after the European pool league coverage has finished. 

[Cerulean]

12 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

KEEP THE FAITH GUYS 

Lets do it:) The key to keeping this great game alive is very simple.

* SL has to have Toulouse and London in for now with a 5 year min licence

* More internationals ( 2 a year in London and the South) 

* Keep the door wide open for ambitious clubs the SL can increase with conferences

*  I would  actually 100% ditch the SL name and would do a deal to have it rebranded NRL (Europe)

* England matches spread out a little (OK am back to England v France in places like Portsmouth and Plymouth  I await the trolls LOL)

* Investment in development officers  outside of the traditional areas London/Newcastle/Coventry/Wales/Cornwall are the areas I would invest in

* Investment into areas that are being neglected Oldham/Rochdale/Manchester/Cumbria 

* Strong tie up with France including an annual cup between championship and Elite 1 clubs 

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

Goodness me. Some common sense, positive suggestions, a genuine outline of valuable possibilities.

Though if these suggestions impact the cosy existence of those who decide where the game goes - Wigan, Leeds, St Helens and Warrington - don't look for much ageeement from the supporters of those clubs.

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

Goodness me. Some common sense, positive suggestions, a genuine outline of valuable possibilities.

Though if these suggestions impact the cosy existence of those who decide where the game goes - Wigan, Leeds, St Helens and Warrington - don't look for much ageeement from the supporters of those clubs.

Or the owners who financially support those clubs , so the answer is ?

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

Goodness me. Some common sense, positive suggestions, a genuine outline of valuable possibilities.

Though if these suggestions impact the cosy existence of those who decide where the game goes - Wigan, Leeds, St Helens and Warrington - don't look for much ageeement from the supporters of those clubs.

Club supporters support their clubs , they don't run the game , why should you criticise people who financially support the sport by supporting their clubs ?

I am a supporter of Leigh , what do you want me to do ?  

[Cerulean]

On 25/06/2021 at 21:33, HawkMan said:

With proper stewardship of the game, a proper international calendar to interest the general public and an expanded SL with teams from outside the M62 area, it could knock Union of its perch and be the dominant rugby code. It WON'T be the dominant footy code per se, soccer is going to be no.1 for the foreseeable future,  it has 130 years of history and pull on the  heartstrings of a hell of a lot of people,  and money !!. But RL can be the second favourite sport, that is a realistic aim  given hard work and a desire for the game to see the bigger picture and not be so inward looking. 

An excellent vision.

For the other end of the spectrum,  25 years of decline  could leave the game something similar to shinty, a regional sport with minimal profile, played by the last few enthusiasts with local and family links. 

To your "hard work and desire", I'd add a need to make the sport more accessible to play and watch: work out what it is that folk will be attracted to. Do that seriously, and the game has got a chance.

[Cerulean]

 

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I am a supporter of Leigh , what do you want me to do ?  

I want you to continue to support the game and your club.

I've read enough of your posts to believe that I'd actually put you in charge of the sport.

I've had enough of seeing Leigh and Featherstone and similar teams blamed for the state of the sport, when they have no say whatsoever in the direction it is going.

 

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

 

I want you to continue to support the game and your club.

I've read enough of your posts to believe that I'd actually put you in charge of the sport.

I've had enough of seeing Leigh and Featherstone and similar teams blamed for the state of the sport, when they have no say whatsoever in the direction it is going.

 

So if it's not me , or supporters of Championship clubs , then who are you criticising ? 

Supporters of SL clubs are keeping the sport alive , they don't control the wider game , it's more the owners of the clubs , who are also fans of the clubs , we all know the problems , but I've yet to see anybody , including Mr Richardson and Mr McGillivray actually provide realistic answers 

[welshmagpie]

10 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Don't worry: In 25 years time, the Super League will still exist. Financial differences mean it will be seen as a kind of minor league "feeder competition" for rugby union's premiership, a bit like the CFL is to the NFL. 

The League will be made up of 2 teams from Hull, 3 teams from the Greater Wakefield area, 2 teams from Wigan, St Helens, Warrington and Leeds.

These 10 clubs are permanent franchises, and will not change, as below SuperLeague is a dwindling network of amateur leagues containing clubs such as Bramley, Latchford Albion, Wigan St Pats, Halifax, Workington and Bradford. These clubs are run by enthusiasts, keeping the sport alive. It was last played in a school nearly 15 years ago. 

The aging fanbase will reminisce about how the great Catalan Dragons team won a dynasty of championships in the 2020s but sadly went out of existence shortly afterwards as their benefactor gave up the ghost due to no other French clubs being allowed to join, leaving them isolated and unable to attract a broadcast partner. 

Matches will be shown live on an app called something like LiveSport, which has picked up the rights for Rugby League, pool, pétanque, biathlon and beach soccer. Beach soccer is by far the the most popular sport on the app.   The Super League rights are split between the app and a television channel who broadcast exclusively in betting shops and on online gambling platforms. 

England will periodically form a national team and play a disorganised series of international matches at lower league football stadiums. Their fans are known to talk fondly of the time when they last beat Australia (in 2006, when the England team was known as Great Britain). The last game between the two sides was a 62-4 walkover for the Kangaroos 3 years previously. 

Numerous suggestions have been made to try to grow the footprint of the game (it is completely non-existent in the cities of Manchester and Liverpool by this time) but the fanbase prefers to have derby matches between Featherstone' and Castleford, or Leigh and Wigan, so have turned down suggestions of introducing "foreign" teams, and the sport in France now exists in a completely separate world due to the UK's ongoing lack of co-operation with its EU neighbours.

The sport is not subject to the sort of sneering attitude that it was in previous decades. This is because it is simply unknown outside of the 3 main outposts of Hull, Wakefield and Wigan/Warrington. This does not bother the majority of its fans, who are happy to see their local team take the field on a Thursday night, straight after the European pool league coverage has finished. 

There’s a worrying hint of Handmaid’s Tale in all of this

[giasf]

For reasons that have nothing to do with RU, I went to watch London Irish (low to mid-table Premiership) vs. Exeter (decent side) at the new Brentford stadium the other week. It was only the second time I've ever seen live (professional) RU - the other being 25-30 years ago watching Sale roll around in the mud at Heywood Road vs I've no idea who.

I worry where we'll be in 25 years time if RU continues on its current trajectory. Almost everything about that run of the mill RU game - on a Tuesday night, with COVID restrictions - was better than any (non-play-off) SL game I've been to since the mid-00s. The stadium was better than any SL stadium I've been to (even if it doesn't belong to London Irish), the crowd felt more diverse and more interested in what they were there to see, the club made more effort to provide a professional "experience" off the pitch. Even the on-field product really wasn't that bad. As ever with RU the basics were at times lacking, but both sides were throwing the ball about and playing expansive rugby that was largely entertaining to watch. Not a patch on the best RL can offer but frankly not far off the average SL fixture.

Rugby League needs to play to its strengths and make a committed effort as a sport to promote what is unique about it. The sport should be pushing to develop more of a presence in the south, but only because there is room for both codes down here - not in any attempt to dislodge RU from its heartlands. Invest in the sport in the north at a grassroots level and make sure that kids want to play our sport. Participation numbers are worrying. Promote the amateur game and make sure community clubs are just that - the focal part of their local area -- with proper facilities that they can generate revenue from.

Reduce the number of top flight sides and ensure that the teams that are there have the strength of personnel to showcase the best of our sport at club level. The simple fact is that we don't have the quality of players coming through to support the numbers of teams and fixtures we have in SL currently. Until then reduce the number of sides to 10 and play home-and-away. Market the Challenge Cup and Play-Offs/Grand Final more heavily. Commit to a proper representative calendar -- regular GB tours, get England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales playing each other regularly -- if that means playing fast and loose with eligibility rules to bring up the level of competitiveness of the other Home Nations then do it. Bring back Lancashire v Yorkshire and commit to it for 5 years.

Create a programme to improve the quality of media personalities around the game - get eloquent ex-players the right media training so we can show our sport in the right way in the press/media. There are some decent ex-players starting to float around (Carney is great, Wilkin is very good although a little fond of his own voice, etc).

Support French RL -- it's the more obvious place to expand vs. the South. The objective should be to have Catalans and Toulouse return to their own comp in 25 years with 6 to 8 other clubs that can comprise a meaningful competition that can capture interest locally and enable France to field a competitive international side.

[The Frying Scotsman]

On 25/06/2021 at 22:33, HawkMan said:

With proper stewardship of the game, a proper international calendar to interest the general public and an expanded SL with teams from outside the M62 area, it could knock Union of its perch and be the dominant rugby code. It WON'T be the dominant footy code per se, soccer is going to be no.1 for the foreseeable future,  it has 130 years of history and pull on the  heartstrings of a hell of a lot of people,  and money !!. But RL can be the second favourite sport, that is a realistic aim  given hard work and a desire for the game to see the bigger picture and not be so inward looking. 

Genuinely amazing stuff. 

The sport is absolutely impoverished in the UK, yet this guy thinks that it can take over from union - a sport that has a community club in almost every town in the UK, and an international tier that generates huge revenue and cascades it down throughout the sport.

Absolute fantasy stuff - there is no other word for it. 

 

[Cerulean]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So if it's not me , or supporters of Championship clubs , then who are you criticising ? 

Supporters of SL clubs are keeping the sport alive , they don't control the wider game , it's more the owners of the clubs , who are also fans of the clubs , we all know the problems , but I've yet to see anybody , including Mr Richardson and Mr McGillivray actually provide realistic answers 

I don’t understand your response. If you re-read my post, you will see that I criticised no one. I expressed agreement with someone’s list of suggestions for developing the sport to strengthen it’s profile and attractiveness. I said that some would not agree with the suggestions, implying - using the words “cosy existence” - that the majority of those would belong to the few top clubs who would be most impacted by the suggestions. There are fans of the sport and there are fans of their own team, and I offer no criticism for supporters who, like me, spend their money, time, enthusiasm on the sport as a whole, or on their specific team.

Judging by the discussions on here, many seem to believe that the game needs to revitalise itself if it is to survive and prosper in a world where leisure activity and spending is changing quickly and drastically. I attempted to highlight what I believed was a sound list of ideas produced by another poster.

Who is it who can bring about change? I suggest that any discussion would benefit from clearly identifying who it is who can drive forward development, who it is who will be creating the direction for the sport. Despite the obfuscation of some, it is most certainly not the smaller clubs and their fans, who have no power whatsoever. Until those who want to make change can identify those with the power to make change, there will be no progress.

[Dunbar]

In 25 years time, 46 year old Jack Walker will issue a public statement imploring people to stop referring to him as 'young Jack Walker'.

[MidlandsJohn]

On 26/06/2021 at 01:25, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Post Alien invasion

The highest level of the game will be Planet of origin. Those Jupiter b******s are going down in the  2046 series

That could definitely work for the women's game because the coverage could nick the SOO promo slogan.

 

Instead of "mate against mate, state against state" It'll be "girl against girl, world against world"

 

Taking the ultra-pessimistic view (as this is an RL forum and I want to fit in properly)...

 

If things don't change quickly, I could see RL dwindling to the level of a sport like bandy or floorball, where the pro/semi-pro game, such as it is, only exists in a handful of countries (Finland, Sweden, Russia for bandy, Finland, Sweden, Czech Rep. and Switzerland for floorball if you were wondering) with other countries simply making up the numbers and once in a (long) while producing a star player or shock result. Even in the "professional countries" It's only the absolute elite handful who can be classed as full-time pro, and even then they may choose to work a regular job alongside their sport.

 

So in the RL case, I can see an English structure where the pro/semi-pro game is two divisions only and much of that involves players who are semi-pro or who are full-time sportsmen but only on a "regular job" kind of wage (think something like Scottish Championship football). The elite handful may be "marquee players" on decent money but no more than that. You then have a sharp distinction between this and the NCL/amateur game.

 

Catalans, seeing the financial reality, cut their cloth accordingly and leave Super League to become the dominant force in Elite 1.

In the Southern Hemisphere, the bandy/floorball scenario I listed plays out with Australia and New Zealand the only options if you really want to be a well-paid truly full-time RL player. This give the NRL the whip hand over how the world game should be run, and their preferred scenario is a six-team World Cup which consists of Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain (as the NH sport will have shrunk back to not being able to field separate home nations), PNG and two qualifiers from a "Pacific Cup" of Samoa, Tonga, Fiji and Cook Islands. After much wailing and complaints of ignoring the game's rich history, France are belatedly included but to even up the numbers, an Indigenous Australia or NZ Maori (depending on host nation) team is also invited to compete.

Super League loses its Sky presence but is snapped up by the BBC...who proceed to put the matches on Internet streaming and the Red Button.

 

Seriously though, the J. McGillivray BBC article that other posters have linked to, yes I've read it, and the comments below. Honestly, if most of those people aren't just trolling and those opinions are what they genuinely believe then maybe RL really does deserve to wither on the vine.

 

Who needs London and Toronto when you can have Keighley and Dewsbury?

The old chestnut about the "traditional heartlands".

The deflection tactic of "yeah well how many pro RU clubs in the North?" to which I'll say Sale and Newcastle and counter with "how many pro RL clubs in the whole of Scotland, whole of Wales or whole of England below Cheshire?"

...and my absolute favourite, the one numbskull who was mystified about why Super League ever "expanded to France", as though French RL just popped into existence overnight!

 

Time for a lie down...

[Harry Stottle]

On 25/06/2021 at 23:24, Davo5 said:

The salary cap will have gone up 100 quid,Wakefield Cas will unveil 3D plans of their new proposed stadiums,Bradford will come out of receivership for the 20th time and Superleague announces a new expansion team in Standish will be joining the expanded 13 team league.

Yep I can agree with everything there Dav except surely not 3 teams in SL from Wigan

[Davo5]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yep I can agree with everything there Dav except surely not 3 teams in SL from Wigan

If Fev get promoted there will be 3 in Wakefield

[Harry Stottle]

In 25 years time when the Health and Safety Excutuve and the ambulance chasing lawyer types have been all over the litigation aspects of high collision sports and the later life effect they have on people, I see sports such as ours and Union will drastically decline in participation numbers and or be sanitised to such a level (rule changes) that they will no longer be viable spectator sports any numbers will want to spend their hard earned on watching.

[Robin Evans]

Twenty five years from now I'll be 85 if I'm still alive. I will long since given up my association with rugby league.

I suspect licensing will have returned and I've thrown a moody, gone away in a sulk never to return to rugby league again.

If rugby league is even still being played in 25 yrs I'll be surprised

[ELBOWSEYE]

On 25/06/2021 at 21:29, EssexRL said:

I’ll be 83 so will hit the average age of RL fans

Ive read if you bring your parents with you can get in free. 

[The storm]

On 25/06/2021 at 21:50, Rowan said:

I suspect that Rugby Union will make so many subtle rule changes over the next few years - as they have done in the past - that there will no longer be any point in two codes.  The RU will surely reduce their teams to 14 then 13 a side, reduce the value of the penalty (realising that fans want to see tries)  and find a way to get rid of those untidy mauls where the ball disappears from sight for minutes on end. They will probably keep line-outs just to prove they have not been influenced by the other code. The only thing they won't do is change their name to Rugby League.  At least I won't be around in 25 years to find out. Or if I am I won't know what's going on.

I've thought this for some time. 

 

Union will slowly morph into rugby league and the differences between the two sports will be minor. 

 

Then a unified rugby sport with Union purchasing the game of league and then integrating it into their own spoet 

Some league enthusiasts will remain in the a nature game and Leigh will be relegated from whatever league they are in 

[Casually]

Best case scenario: 16 team Super League with strong grassroots and competitive teams in London, Newcastle, York, Toulouse, and maybe Wales. A Championship that isn't a two horse race but is instead full of healthy clubs all capable of competing at a higher level. A 3rd level with good prospect teams based around the country with maybe teams from Scotland and Serbia. Attendance at the higher level averaging 12k

Worst case scenario: The sport's reduced to a handful of amateur clubs in dying mining towns while all the big Super League clubs have swapped to RU. Despite being the only professional League team in England, Leigh still fail to win the title

Hoping for the former, feel the latter is more likely. Only way we can achieve the first outcome is if everyone running the sport in this country all die of heart attacks and get replaced with actual forward thinkers.

[Wigan Riversider]

4 hours ago, Casually said:

Best case scenario: 16 team Super League with strong grassroots and competitive teams in London, Newcastle, York, Toulouse, and maybe Wales. A Championship that isn't a two horse race but is instead full of healthy clubs all capable of competing at a higher level. A 3rd level with good prospect teams based around the country with maybe teams from Scotland and Serbia. Attendance at the higher level averaging 12k

Worst case scenario: The sport's reduced to a handful of amateur clubs in dying mining towns while all the big Super League clubs have swapped to RU. Despite being the only professional League team in England, Leigh still fail to win the title

Hoping for the former, feel the latter is more likely. Only way we can achieve the first outcome is if everyone running the sport in this country all die of heart attacks and get replaced with actual forward thinkers.

Like the opening paragraph very much.