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Shane Richardson Calls for Overhaul of British Rugby League


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10 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Interesting York is being mentioned when three years ago, they would have been nowhere but it is the kind of progress from York and Newcastle (new teams or teams transforming infrastructure) that would end up being barred under his model. 

Look mate I think he`d be thinking once the ten team comp was settled, you`d pretty quickly make it clear that the comp could be expanded, even if you still had P & R, so if York or any other team met certain criteria, and this is where a hard headed business approach would come in, they could apply and enter the comp. Exactly what were doing in Queensland now, the bidders have to prove their sustainability and their ability to add value to the competition.

It`s tough and we appear like hypocrites down here when we have so many teams crammed into Sydney, but our TV deal is worth about $300m+(160m pound +) and that`s only about 60 % of total revenue. So in the meantime we have to live with those clubs.

So I don`t think they would be barred mate, you might find if there was enough suitable teams in your Championship, one would go up through promotion and another through expanding the number of teams in your top comp.

This is one of the main arguments against relegation, a powerhouse club having a lean trot can be lost to your main comp, and the flow on effect this could have in raising code wide sponsors and broadcast deals. It would be like the NRL losing the Broncos, our one genuine `big market` teams.

n.b. The Accor Hotel chain are an NRL sponsor, there is talk Accor will be used for the Quarantine hubs, they would have a big presence in Brisbane, no Broncos no Accor sponsorship perhaps.

 

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31 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

How can clubs who are commercially ready to step up and will need to grow over time be helped if we effectively gut clubs like Cas (turnover pre covid 7 million) . Selling never ending loop games. He is creating an inferior product that would only lead to a lower deal next time. 

Interesting York is being mentioned when three years ago, they would have been nowhere but it is the kind of progress from York and Newcastle (new teams or teams transforming infrastructure) that would end up being barred under his model. 

And his plan has Australia downing tools once every four years from even end of season intenationals. So the potential of the huge FTA exposure that every other RL nations gets from internations the Aussies won´t help with.  Sod off with this NRL plan.  We have the 12 we have now (maybe Leigh go down).

Easily we can go :

Wigan, Saints

Hull, KR

Catalan , Toulouse

Warrington, Leeds

York, Newcastle

Cas, Wakey

Huddersfield, AN Other (who get promoted) 

That´s a great mix of international teams, local derbies and big sides to start growing the game again. 

What about Salford? 

So in this one we effectively want to give Newcastle & York, very average to slightly weak Championship sides, the Salford & Leigh money & squads....why?

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Just now, ShropshireBull said:

Again, I´m not relegating anyone. I´m just showing as an example we have more than enough teams with good infrastructure in commercially exploitative areas to make a 14 team comp hum. 

These sides, York & Newcastle offer true RL potential, that is all it is at the moment though, let's hope they don't get relegated from the Championship. 

The key ingredient they would be missing if artificially promoted would be any credibility whatsoever, they need to earn it for present and future fans and so that the rest of the RL world can give them at least some kind of grudging respect. 

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2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Nothing about internationals there but I just fear the sudden boot to teams actually generating revenue for exciting expansion teams but teams who will need exposure to more successful clubs to grow, will do more harm then good.

I also think a ten team comp will be repetitive and struggle to have enough key note games to rebuild that tv deal. Whereas 14 gives us that healthy mix and lets us keep those traditional derbies which always make for good tv. Teams like Newcastle and York wouldn´t even be in the convo for franchise places if we didn´t have p and r that put them at the forefront of people´s minds. If I didn´t think we had enough for 14 I´d be against it but there´s clearly enough teams with the infrastructure and opportunities in place to step up without barring your cas or fev or salford. 

An expansion is unlikely but if so you have to put the best Clubs up in the interests of sporting integrity (something we severely lack and one of our key problems) 

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8 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I´m confident that if we said this was the deal next year (with no central funding now for RFL Champ). We´d be seeing at least one of Newcastle and York going up, whoever out of Fev or Toulouse doesn´t go up this year and AN Other. 

It is very interesting to think who'd be left standing with 0 share of central funding and who out of those could emerge as promotion contenders. 

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

It would be interesting to know what huge amounts of money we have wasted on these European international teams - how much, where was the money from etc? He seems to just make claims without really backing anything up with any kind of evidence - saying everything is rubbish - the NRL clubs have been shafted and we have wasted loads of money. 

We have a couple of dozen countries playing in Europe - and some EU funding for coaching & refereeing development. Probably the most positive development in the Northern Hemisphere in the past decade. The idea that huge amounts of money has been spent on it is laughable, probably less than is handed out to individual Championship clubs. I would guess RL will make far more money from England playing Greece at Bramall Lane this autumn that any individual SL fixture.

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It's a really odd set of locations suggested for the 8 UK clubs. York - a small city close to Leeds that has had a RL club for longer than Aussie RL has been in existence, and a ground capacity below the pre-pandemic SL average attendance. South Wales, a location where there are already two powerful incumbents in soccer and rugby union, no big cities, 100+ years of RL failing to take off there and arguably even bigger economic problems than the north of England. Why would you abandon cities like Manchester or Bradford to add York or South Wales?

The locations where successful RU expansion has taken place in England have primarily been mid-sized cities with little competition from soccer - Exeter, Worcester (or Coventry, where the soccer team has been forced out of town in recent years). If I was picking arbitrary cities to add a franchised RL team, I'd be looking for one of those places. There aren't too many.

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Looking at Richardson's paper, let's try and build on a couple of the points, ignoring the NRL-preservation international guff:

European Rugby Football League 

Wigan, Leeds, St Helens, Warrington, Hull

Toulouse, Catalans, London, South Wales, Newcastle

RFL Championship

Bradford, Widnes, York, Featherstone, Castleford, Hull KR

Wakefield, Salford, Huddersfield, Halifax, Sheffield, Whitehaven

Amateur structure

Everyone else

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Structure - home and away round robin. Top 4 playoff. Grand Final. 

So looking at this, what else do we think we would need to do to make this a success, above and beyond anything we currently have? 

Let's say in year 1 Toulouse, London, South Wales and Newcastle prop up the division, losing the majority of their games  what would the level of interest in them be? More or less than it is in Hudds/Hull KR/Salford etc?

I think if you are going down this kind of route it has to be based on a closed-shop. You are artificially promoting development areas, and leaving P&R in place means that they just sink to the lower level and are replaced by clubs we have previously ejected. 

Could a closed shop top division of those 10 clubs drive average crowds of 12-15k, and Sky viewing figures of 250-300k per game?

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Looking at Richardson's paper, let's try and build on a couple of the points, ignoring the NRL-preservation international guff:

European Rugby Football League 

Wigan, Leeds, St Helens, Warrington, Hull

Toulouse, Catalans, London, South Wales, Newcastle

RFL Championship

Bradford, Widnes, York, Featherstone, Castleford, Hull KR

Wakefield, Salford, Huddersfield, Halifax, Sheffield, Whitehaven

Amateur structure

Everyone else

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Structure - home and away round robin. Top 4 playoff. Grand Final. 

So looking at this, what else do we think we would need to do to make this a success, above and beyond anything we currently have? 

Let's say in year 1 Toulouse, London, South Wales and Newcastle prop up the division, losing the majority of their games  what would the level of interest in them be? More or less than it is in Hudds/Hull KR/Salford etc?

I think if you are going down this kind of route it has to be based on a closed-shop. You are artificially promoting development areas, and leaving P&R in place means that they just sink to the lower level and are replaced by clubs we have previously ejected. 

Could a closed shop top division of those 10 clubs drive average crowds of 12-15k, and Sky viewing figures of 250-300k per game?

It's good of you to engage with it but it's absolutely hopeless. It's believing that we are one magic structure for a small number of clubs away from solving every problem that exists in rugby league. 

In this system you're casting out more than you're bringing in on a promise of jam tomorrow. There's no rationale to it, no depth and, dare I say it, no thought.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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How much did the NRL and News need to spend at Melbourne before it became viable ? Likewise the AFL and Sydney.

Then double it because the UK sports market is much more mature.

Then multiply it by the number of teams Richardson has come up with.

Then find us sources of funding. I'll wait.

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Looking at Richardson's paper, let's try and build on a couple of the points, ignoring the NRL-preservation international guff:

European Rugby Football League 

Wigan, Leeds, St Helens, Warrington, Hull

Toulouse, Catalans, London, South Wales, Newcastle

RFL Championship

Bradford, Widnes, York, Featherstone, Castleford, Hull KR

Wakefield, Salford, Huddersfield, Halifax, Sheffield, Whitehaven

Amateur structure

Everyone else

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Structure - home and away round robin. Top 4 playoff. Grand Final. 

So looking at this, what else do we think we would need to do to make this a success, above and beyond anything we currently have? 

Let's say in year 1 Toulouse, London, South Wales and Newcastle prop up the division, losing the majority of their games  what would the level of interest in them be? More or less than it is in Hudds/Hull KR/Salford etc?

I think if you are going down this kind of route it has to be based on a closed-shop. You are artificially promoting development areas, and leaving P&R in place means that they just sink to the lower level and are replaced by clubs we have previously ejected. 

Could a closed shop top division of those 10 clubs drive average crowds of 12-15k, and Sky viewing figures of 250-300k per game?

Leigh?

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10 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's good of you to engage with it but it's absolutely hopeless. It's believing that we are one magic structure for a small number of clubs away from solving every problem that exists in rugby league. 

In this system you're casting out more than you're bringing in on a promise of jam tomorrow. There's no rationale to it, no depth and, dare I say it, no thought.

Absolutely. 

I thought creating a post 'to start a discussion' would be interesting, and tbh, I lost interest in my own post and realised I didn't really have much to add to it :kolobok_biggrin:

It was a tough ###### to polish.

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I think without P&R kiss goodbye to initially 40% of the fans of the 12 Championship Clubs forever. Then see a steady drain over the decade to Oldham, barrow, Rochdale levels. Then the top tier will get in trouble after 5 or 20 seasons cos it's just stale and everyone knows it......then p&r will open up and the Championship will slowly and painfully build its crowds over several years and then the whole merry go round will begin again. 

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5 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

I think without P&R kiss goodbye to initially 40% of the fans of the 12 Championship Clubs forever. Then see a steady drain over the decade to Oldham, barrow, Rochdale levels. Then the top tier will get in trouble after 5 or 20 seasons cos it's just stale and everyone knows it......then p&r will open up and the Championship will slowly and painfully build its crowds over several years and then the whole merry go round will begin again. 

To labour the point though: this is almost completely irrelevant. The game as a whole's issues are not solved by what the average gate in the Championship is nor does 500 or 1,500 at Oldham do anything for 99.99% of rugby league.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

To labour the point though: this is almost completely irrelevant. The game as a whole's issues are not solved by what the average gate in the Championship is nor does 500 or 1,500 at Oldham do anything for 99.99% of rugby league.

How is it irrelevant both Big Shane & Dave T have included the Championship. If the success or failure of the Championship is irrelevant why have they planned for it. 

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1 minute ago, Smudger06 said:

How is it irrelevant both Big Shane & Dave T have included the Championship. If the success or failure of the Championship is irrelevant why have they planned for it. 

That Big Shane has included it in the way he has shows up what an empty "plan" it is.

There's nothing in his thinking that is new. Nothing that is useful. Nothing that understands that if rearranging the structure for the mediocre professional clubs in the country was all that was needed to save rugby league then we'd already be saved because it's all we've been doing for most of our history.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That Big Shane has included it in the way he has shows up what an empty "plan" it is.

There's nothing in his thinking that is new. Nothing that is useful. Nothing that understands that if rearranging the structure for the mediocre professional clubs in the country was all that was needed to save rugby league then we'd already be saved because it's all we've been doing for most of our history.

The Championship is critical to RL in the Northern Hemisphere and here is just a few reasons why;

1) Elite Head Coach development Pathway

2) SL Standard Match Official Development 

3) A Talent Pool of Players (Late Developers & Those overlooked) 

4) The Stake that anchors about 20% of the UK fanbase of the sport of RL. 

5) intangible Historic reasons, heritage, prestige value (as the Huddersfield Chairman has stated, SL is the top of the pyramid, we are not the top of very much if there is no pyramid. 

6) A source of Clubs to step up to SL at less than an off seasons notice when the SHTF and it all goes wrong with a Club in SL. 

7) Championship clubs a guardian of RL facilities which are very much in short supply. 

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9 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

The Championship is critical to RL in the Northern Hemisphere and here is just a few reasons why;

1) Elite Head Coach development Pathway

2) SL Standard Match Official Development 

3) A Talent Pool of Players (Late Developers & Those overlooked) 

4) The Stake that anchors about 20% of the UK fanbase of the sport of RL. 

5) intangible Historic reasons, heritage, prestige value (as the Huddersfield Chairman has stated, SL is the top of the pyramid, we are not the top of very much if there is no pyramid. 

6) A source of Clubs to step up to SL at less than an off seasons notice when the SHTF and it all goes wrong with a Club in SL. 

7) Championship clubs a guardian of RL facilities which are very much in short supply. 

That been said, a serious decline in the Championship fanbase means a decline in the standard of talent both of coaches and players that can be attracted. Meaning, ultimately a decline in RL. 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Looking at Richardson's paper, let's try and build on a couple of the points, ignoring the NRL-preservation international guff:

European Rugby Football League 

Wigan, Leeds, St Helens, Warrington, Hull

Toulouse, Catalans, London, South Wales, Newcastle

RFL Championship

Bradford, Widnes, York, Featherstone, Castleford, Hull KR

Wakefield, Salford, Huddersfield, Halifax, Sheffield, Whitehaven

Amateur structure

Everyone else

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Structure - home and away round robin. Top 4 playoff. Grand Final. 

So looking at this, what else do we think we would need to do to make this a success, above and beyond anything we currently have? 

Let's say in year 1 Toulouse, London, South Wales and Newcastle prop up the division, losing the majority of their games  what would the level of interest in them be? More or less than it is in Hudds/Hull KR/Salford etc?

I think if you are going down this kind of route it has to be based on a closed-shop. You are artificially promoting development areas, and leaving P&R in place means that they just sink to the lower level and are replaced by clubs we have previously ejected. 

Could a closed shop top division of those 10 clubs drive average crowds of 12-15k, and Sky viewing figures of 250-300k per game?

This sort of structure would kill the game overnight. The 'report' if you could call it that is a load of rubbish. It's not based on any evidence whatsoever and is just some blokes opinion 

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1 hour ago, Smudger06 said:

How is it irrelevant both Big Shane & Dave T have included the Championship. If the success or failure of the Championship is irrelevant why have they planned for it. 

Spoiler alert, I picked 12 teams that I read first for my Championship 'plan', which, whilst more detailed than SR's plan wasn't to be taken too seriously 🤣

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