Another SL Game Off

[Chris22]

I wouldn't be surprised if Saints v Hull KR is off too.

HKR press conference cancelled this PM, Saints ticket office closed abruptly today due to 'unforeseen circumstances'.

[DimmestStar]

25 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Saints v Hull KR is off too.

HKR press conference cancelled this PM, Saints ticket office closed abruptly today due to 'unforeseen circumstances'.

Saints have 3 players tested positive apparently.

First Rovers had their own COVID problems and now week after week our opponents are calling the game off.

Terribly frustrating.

[Whippet13]

20 hours ago, Clogiron said:

Whilst everybody is calling out the club's they are only working to the rules set out by the RFL/SL for this s  hitshower of a season. It was obvious that there wasn't a cat in hells chance of getting through it, but as usual they like many on here adopted the policy of 'if we don't look at it it doesn't exsist'  Backloading the season and incorporating a Magic Weekend were the work of a genuine, 24carat genius, I'm sure they will all claim credit for.

To be fair, I don't recall anyone on here praising SL for ramming in all the loop fixtures, most people said it was a completely bonkers idea from day 1. 

[RP London]

15 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

To be fair, I don't recall anyone on here praising SL for ramming in all the loop fixtures, most people said it was a completely bonkers idea from day 1. 

I think he is also being a bit disingenuous for saying "It was obvious that there wasn't a cat in hells chance of getting through it, but as usual they like many on here adopted the policy of 'if we don't look at it it doesn't exsist'" when actually they come up with a "solution" that was agreed upon and is now playing out.. whether you like that "solution" or not is a different debate its still a solution and its working for how it was designed. 

The fact its chicken coming home to roost in terms of being so desperate for cash (and thinking the only way is more fixtures) that they cannot say we'll do the same length season but with less games (therefore gap weekends to put in postponements, and also to let players recover) is a fair point. 

[dkw]

Rochdale v Town now off due to Covid in the Rochdale Squad. Can anyone explain if that means Town are scared of playing Leigh, want to play Leigh later in the season or just dont care? Basically, where on the "Leigh Scale" are we?

[RP London]

51 minutes ago, dkw said:

Rochdale v Town now off due to Covid in the Rochdale Squad. Can anyone explain if that means Town are scared of playing Leigh, want to play Leigh later in the season or just dont care? Basically, where on the "Leigh Scale" are we?

I think it all depends on whether you need the points later in the season to earn promotion/stave off relegation* 

*delete as applicable.

[Dunedan]

On 19/07/2021 at 18:26, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

They will certainly fulfill the fixture against Leigh and pick up the easy 2 points. Disgraceful by Cas this season cancelling games left right and centre.

Castleford have played more games this season than any other team. But do go on about they are cancelling all their games.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Rochdale v Town now off due to Covid in the Rochdale Squad. Can anyone explain if that means Town are scared of playing Leigh, want to play Leigh later in the season or just dont care? Basically, where on the "Leigh Scale" are we?

Aren’t there some ex-Leigh players at Rochdale now?

[Clogiron]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

I think he is also being a bit disingenuous for saying "It was obvious that there wasn't a cat in hells chance of getting through it, but as usual they like many on here adopted the policy of 'if we don't look at it it doesn't exsist'" when actually they come up with a "solution" that was agreed upon and is now playing out.. whether you like that "solution" or not is a different debate its still a solution and its working for how it was designed. 

The fact its chicken coming home to roost in terms of being so desperate for cash (and thinking the only way is more fixtures) that they cannot say we'll do the same length season but with less games (therefore gap weekends to put in postponements, and also to let players recover) is a fair point. 

My point about not looking at a problem and regarding those on here is that people fail to recognise that irrespective of Covid the game is unsustainable as it stands, it can't tap into new revenue streams as it has no widespread market appeal (Vultures from PE aside) there isn't enough money within it to continue as it is, it relies on the current fan base, trying to extract more cash from it endlessly, it has no money to fall back on if needs be. What Covid has done is brought these failings into the spotlight and shown that those in charge have no answers other than a Gvt loan that in the washup they will be desperate to call back. How is that going to be achieved? By the clubs who are skint they tell us or by the RFL/SL who don't have a pot to p iss in.

Best ignore it and it won't happen.

[Wholly Trinity]

15 minutes ago, Dunedan said:

Castleford have played more games this season than any other team. But do go on about they are cancelling all their games.

No team has played more games than cas, but Wigan & Wire have also played 16.

They've cancelled one, had one cancelled on them and fielded a severely weakened team the week before the final.

Their impact on the integrity of league positions is significant. 

[Saint Toppy]

25 minutes ago, Dunedan said:

Castleford have played more games this season than any other team. But do go on about they are cancelling all their games.

Only because of the CC run, in the league Wigan Wakey & Huds have all played more than Cas

[RP London]

22 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

My point about not looking at a problem and regarding those on here is that people fail to recognise that irrespective of Covid the game is unsustainable as it stands, it can't tap into new revenue streams as it has no widespread market appeal (Vultures from PE aside) there isn't enough money within it to continue as it is, it relies on the current fan base, trying to extract more cash from it endlessly, it has no money to fall back on if needs be. What Covid has done is brought these failings into the spotlight and shown that those in charge have no answers other than a Gvt loan that in the washup they will be desperate to call back. How is that going to be achieved? By the clubs who are skint they tell us or by the RFL/SL who don't have a pot to p iss in.

Best ignore it and it won't happen.

Oh fair enough then sorry i thought it was a specific comment towards the COVID situation... their inability to deal with the problems as you mention are pretty stark and their thinking is far too one dimensional ie we need more income so lets have more games rather than making more money per game from a smaller number of games etc.

[sweaty craiq]

35 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

My point about not looking at a problem and regarding those on here is that people fail to recognise that irrespective of Covid the game is unsustainable as it stands, it can't tap into new revenue streams as it has no widespread market appeal (Vultures from PE aside) there isn't enough money within it to continue as it is, it relies on the current fan base, trying to extract more cash from it endlessly, it has no money to fall back on if needs be. What Covid has done is brought these failings into the spotlight and shown that those in charge have no answers other than a Gvt loan that in the washup they will be desperate to call back. How is that going to be achieved? By the clubs who are skint they tell us or by the RFL/SL who don't have a pot to p iss in.

Best ignore it and it won't happen.

There’s plenty money in it when you consider the losses in RU but it suits some owners to keep it cheap and still win the pots. A significant cash injection is needed for growth not debt repayments at clubs, it may be time to truly franchise SL with a £multi million membership fee.

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, RP London said:

Oh fair enough then sorry i thought it was a specific comment towards the COVID situation... their inability to deal with the problems as you mention are pretty stark and their thinking is far too one dimensional ie we need more income so lets have more games rather than making more money per game from a smaller number of games etc.

I do think some of the criticism about Rugby League clubs staging Rugby League is weird. I understand that some people don't like loop fixtures (although the crowds hold up fine) - but needing to stage games as a RL club is not unreasonable.

Within the UK sporting landscape, we stage fewer games than Football, Rugby Union and Cricket. 13/14 home games per year then the cup is hardly excessive. 

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I do think some of the criticism about Rugby League clubs staging Rugby League is weird. I understand that some people don't like loop fixtures (although the crowds hold up fine) - but needing to stage games as a RL club is not unreasonable.

Within the UK sporting landscape, we stage fewer games than Football, Rugby Union and Cricket. 13/14 home games per year then the cup is hardly excessive. 

I do understand what you are saying but if we only have a set amount of weekends i think more can be made of those extra weekends than just playing loop fixtures, we should be looking at things that help the game as a whole grow which then means that there is more money for the clubs further down the line, international weekends etc. 

In terms of what you say re fewer games, that isnt true we have more league games than RU (they have 22, 24 this year) and some European games which it depends how far they go, but group games is maybe 6 more so we are on a parity. The difference isnt much. Comparing then to cricket (that get hardly anyone into county matches) and football where players can play more games in shorter time periods is a little unfair i think. 

The way i was using it though was more as an example of vision. Rather than maximising the revenue made from each game its simply add another game. (simplistic but as i say just an example of vision, there are many more including ignoring the international game)

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

I do understand what you are saying but if we only have a set amount of weekends i think more can be made of those extra weekends than just playing loop fixtures, we should be looking at things that help the game as a whole grow which then means that there is more money for the clubs further down the line, international weekends etc. 

In terms of what you say re fewer games, that isnt true we have more league games than RU (they have 22, 24 this year) and some European games which it depends how far they go, but group games is maybe 6 more so we are on a parity. The difference isnt much. Comparing then to cricket (that get hardly anyone into county matches) and football where players can play more games in shorter time periods is a little unfair i think. 

The way i was using it though was more as an example of vision. Rather than maximising the revenue made from each game its simply add another game. (simplistic but as i say just an example of vision, there are many more including ignoring the international game)

Looking at Leicester Tigers in 2018/19 as an example:

22 regular league games

6 Euro group games

4 Premiership Cup Games

Had they won every game, they would have played another 8 games.

This means they play a minimum of 32 games, a maximum of 40. 

A super league club in 2019

29 regular league games

1 cup game

If they win every game, they play a maximum of a further 4 in SL and a further 4 in the cup.

This means they play a minimum of 30 games and a maximum of 38. 

RU also adds a sack-full of internationals on top. 

The number of games we stage isn't the problem - it's the business we are in.

[RP London]

23 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Looking at Leicester Tigers in 2018/19 as an example:

22 regular league games

6 Euro group games

4 Premiership Cup Games

Had they won every game, they would have played another 8 games.

This means they play a minimum of 32 games, a maximum of 40. 

A super league club in 2019

29 regular league games

1 cup game

If they win every game, they play a maximum of a further 4 in SL and a further 4 in the cup.

This means they play a minimum of 30 games and a maximum of 38. 

RU also adds a sack-full of internationals on top. 

The number of games we stage isn't the problem - it's the business we are in.

As I said at the start its an example of one of the issues, I also said we were on a parity.. which we are 2 games depending on how you do in the comps is a parity surely.. premiership cup is designed to be on at the same time as the internationals so are weaker teams giving youngsters a run out/trial (if only we could think to do something like this) where you can test the strength of the next generation without it impacting on the league.. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

As I said at the start its an example of one of the issues, I also said we were on a parity.. which we are 2 games depending on how you do in the comps is a parity surely.. premiership cup is designed to be on at the same time as the internationals so are weaker teams giving youngsters a run out/trial (if only we could think to do something like this) where you can test the strength of the next generation without it impacting on the league.. 

Without risking cross-code - but that is a good example of how anything is possible if we want to do something. But my point is that the number of games isn't the issue - other sports do it no problem, and more - having the will to do it, and in creative ways, is the challenge. 

I think we focus on the wrong things if we grumble about too many games.I agree with the points about whether they are the right games etc. (loop versus a cup etc).

[RP London]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Without risking cross-code - but that is a good example of how anything is possible if we want to do something. But my point is that the number of games isn't the issue - other sports do it no problem, and more - having the will to do it, and in creative ways, is the challenge. 

I think we focus on the wrong things if we grumble about too many games.I agree with the points about whether they are the right games etc. (loop versus a cup etc).

We're getting stuck on something that was not the point i was making though.. 

Its not the number of games its the thinking behind why we needed to add the loop fixtures... we need more income therefore we play more matches.. rather than lets make the game day better, things more profitable/worth more therefore make more money out of less matches. You can then add more and more matches but with a quality game day your making even more money... its not easy to do but nothing good is easy... but it was the simple idea that to make more you must put on more.. where as in fact by adding loop fixtures you devalue some fixtures because you play the team twice at home (maybe 3, or 4 depending on cup and play offs).. 

you mention the crowds "holding up fine" for the loop fixtures but how good could they be if they were not loop fixtures?? that is the question that needs to be sorted.. they may hold up but why are they not higher.. how can we get them higher.. etc etc THAT is the point i am trying to make.. not add more games but get the games themselves better supported/more profitable. 

This is all I am getting at, I dont have an issue with playing 29 games it is purely how we play those games and why the idea came about that was the example i was using for "simple thinking".. 

[Dave T]

Just now, RP London said:

We're getting stuck on something that was not the point i was making though.. 

Its not the number of games its the thinking behind why we needed to add the loop fixtures... we need more income therefore we play more matches.. rather than lets make the game day better, things more profitable/worth more therefore make more money out of less matches. You can then add more and more matches but with a quality game day your making even more money... its not easy to do but nothing good is easy... but it was the simple idea that to make more you must put on more.. where as in fact by adding loop fixtures you devalue some fixtures because you play the team twice at home (maybe 3, or 4 depending on cup and play offs).. 

This is all I am getting at, I dont have an issue with playing 29 games it is purely how we play those games and why the idea came about that was the example i was using for "simple thinking".. 

I take your point, but what makes you think clubs aren't trying to do these other things? It doesn't have to be one or the other. 

Let's say we go with 22 games versus 29 (which many appeal for), that is an awful lot of income to make up - it impacts the whole piece, media deals, sponsorship deals, ticket sales, merchandise, hospitality and catering etc. 

There is a misconception that the choice was between trying to improve things or just stage more games. That isn't what has happened here, both things are at play. 

And I know it isn't you saying these exact points, but it is often the argument on the quality vs quantity point. I've never known a set of fans of anything who so vocally campaigns for less of the thing they love and support. 

Man City fans are not demanding fewer games, we can stretch that point across music fans, cinema fans etc. 

And I do agree that loop games are not necessarily the best solution, but nor do I think they are a major issue for the game. I think they are a perfectly reasonable solution, if a little lacking in creativity and excitement. 

[RP London]

Just now, Dave T said:

I take your point, but what makes you think clubs aren't trying to do these other things? It doesn't have to be one or the other. 

Let's say we go with 22 games versus 29 (which many appeal for), that is an awful lot of income to make up - it impacts the whole piece, media deals, sponsorship deals, ticket sales, merchandise, hospitality and catering etc. 

There is a misconception that the choice was between trying to improve things or just stage more games. That isn't what has happened here, both things are at play. 

And I know it isn't you saying these exact points, but it is often the argument on the quality vs quantity point. I've never known a set of fans of anything who so vocally campaigns for less of the thing they love and support. 

Man City fans are not demanding fewer games, we can stretch that point across music fans, cinema fans etc. 

And I do agree that loop games are not necessarily the best solution, but nor do I think they are a major issue for the game. I think they are a perfectly reasonable solution, if a little lacking in creativity and excitement. 

Of course they are not the major issue.. thats why i said it was an example of an issue. 

I am not saying go to 22 games versus 29 either.. i dont know why you think i am.. but the simple fact of just add the same games against the same opposition was the easy solution.. doing something different would have been the hard but probably (butterfly effect.. you can never know) better solution.. 

Do you really think the clubs are making the most of what is available to them in terms of media, hospitality, catering etc? some will be, absolutely, but some are woeful.. 

I'm not asking for less, i am asking for better.. 

As i say though its simply an example of simple thinking instead of "actually whats the best way to do this".. 

but i dont want to keep going on on this you know what I am getting at and we are broadly agreeing on the general principle of what we are saying.. i think we are getting bogged down on little tiny bits that actually i'm not saying at all. 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

BBC reporting that Saints and Cas now isolating with HKR now playing Catalans. Good job I haven't got round to doing my 'predictions' yet.

[Clogiron]

As for playing more games think back to all the moaning from coaches about the Easter programme and player burnout, now under different circumstances we are playing games on a much shorter turnround, yes the coaches are whinging, the usual suspects, but it is what it is. Soccer plays two games a week throughout the entire season and Union play more games as stated and whilst the physical demands of League are greater than either of those they achieve it by having larger squads, League as has been highlighted recently runs to the bare minimum to save money and some younger members of these squads  are on a very low amount anyway. If the game can't sustain larger, well paid squads it needs to collectively rethink its structures instead of operating down to a price it should be aiming to achieve a higher standard..

[Man of Kent]

Why do I suspect these postponements are pre-ordained? 

The Super League season is getting farcical.

It’s getting harder to keep track of the fixtures, and the televised fixtures - which were a straightforward Thursday night, Friday night and every other Saturday evening - are all over the shop. Cramming in midweek fixtures was a mistake. 

[arcticchris]

6 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

BBC reporting that Saints and Cas now isolating with HKR now playing Catalans. Good job I haven't got round to doing my 'predictions' yet.

Can’t help thinking about the effect of the hordes around Wembley the week before for the Euros final. Maybe the cleanup operation wasn’t done well enough.