Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Due to all the boundary changes like greater Manchester, Merseyside and Cheshire can we still keep referring to Lancashire as a RL heartland? Especially with their being zero professional or semi-professional RL clubs in the county and very few amauter/grassroots clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Yes, it’s based on the historical county, not manufactured modern administrative units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voteronniegibbs Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Ooh, a proper pub argument type thread. I'll throw the 1st chair and say no it can't. ( I'm off to hide under the pool table ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Eddie said: Yes, it’s based on the historical county, not manufactured modern administrative units. I’d agree with that. Interesting side note that the modern day manufactured boundaries of Lancashire has very little RL activity apart from a handful of amateur/grassroots clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I imagine most people in St Helens, Leigh, Wigan would say they’re from Lancashire if asked what country they were from, rather than Merseyside / Greater Manchester? Weirdly in Liverpool however you’d have literally no idea that it was ever in Lancashire, and I’d wager that over 95% of teenagers there wouldn’t know. Maybe if they’d called Merseyside and GM West and South Lancs like they did in Yorkshire the identity would now be stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 It's pretty clear that anyone referring to 'Lancashire' in the context of rugby league means the traditional/geographic county - which includes heartland areas. As you say CM, there are no professional/semi-pro clubs in the Lancashire local authority area. There are however 10 pro/semi-pro clubs in the traditional county (from the Mersey to the Furness Fells). Outside of RL, my in-laws are from Leigh and it is never in any dispute that they consider themselves to live in Lancashire. They put 'Lancashire' on their postal address. Council areas change from time to time to fit politics and demographics. It is useful to have a fixed long term geographical reference like the traditional counties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, Eddie said: I imagine most people in St Helens, Leigh, Wigan would say they’re from Lancashire if asked what country they were from, rather than Merseyside / Greater Manchester? Weirdly in Liverpool however you’d have literally no idea that it was ever in Lancashire, and I’d wager that over 95% of teenagers there wouldn’t know. Maybe if they’d called Merseyside and GM West and South Lancs like they did in Yorkshire the identity would now be stronger. 'SE Lancs & NE Cheshire' was actually used for GM when the revisions to council areas were first under consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 44 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said: Due to all the boundary changes like greater Manchester, Merseyside and Cheshire can we still keep referring to Lancashire as a RL heartland? Especially with their being zero professional or semi-professional RL clubs in the county and very few amauter/grassroots clubs? Lancashire continues to exist as do the Three Ridings of Yorkshire. There is no reason why anybody should think different. (and likewise Westmoreland & Cumberland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 The various counties were political, That's what a county was. We may not like the changes but nevertheless they've been here for getting on for 50 years. How many people in Gisburn, Sedbergh, or Slaidburn today regard themselves as being from Yorkshire? Having said that I used to deal with a guy from Whitewell, (traditionally Yorkshire) who spoke with an accent as Lancashire as a Bury black pudding, but told me he was a Yorkshireman, but he was my generation, how many of later generations would do the same? What puzzles me, is why there are no pro/semi-pro RL sides north of Wigan, until you get to Cumbria. Same goes for Yorkshire really. Ok south of Wakey you've got Sheffield and Donny, but neither of them are what you could all powerful. The last time I went to a Sheffield home game it was played on an open field. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 It’s clearly not a Rugby League heartland. Ignoring the fact there isn’t a single professional or semi professional team within the Lancashire boundary, I don’t even believe there are many amateur teams, can anyone prove me wrong and produce a long list of Lancashire based clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: 'SE Lancs & NE Cheshire' was actually used for GM when the revisions to council areas were first under consideration. Rolls off the tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: It’s clearly not a Rugby League heartland. Would be interesting to know how many grassroots RL clubs can be found located on that map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Just now, Eddie said: Rolls off the tongue. 'Selnec' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: It’s clearly not a Rugby League heartland. Ignoring the fact there isn’t a single professional or semi professional team within the Lancashire boundary, I don’t even believe there are many amateur teams, can anyone prove me wrong and produce a long list of Lancashire based clubs? That map is of half of Lancashire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hallucinating Goose Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 The historic counties are certainly what people refer to when talking about their origins. During the Humberside years round here no one ever said they were from that manufactured county, they were all proud Yorkshire folk and it didn't take long after it was abolished for it to be just about completely forgotten about. I doubt there are many people round here under about 25 or so that have even heard of Humberside as a county so desperate were people to forget that dark period of our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Whilst we are back on this old chestnut again I'll throw in the obligatory "there is no professional cricket club in Lancashire". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Trojan said: The various counties were political, That's what a county was. We may not like the changes but nevertheless they've been here for getting on for 50 years. How many people in Gisburn, Sedbergh, or Slaidburn today regard themselves as being from Yorkshire? Having said that I used to deal with a guy from Whitewell, (traditionally Yorkshire) who spoke with an accent as Lancashire as a Bury black pudding, but told me he was a Yorkshireman, but he was my generation, how many of later generations would do the same? What puzzles me, is why there are no pro/semi-pro RL sides north of Wigan, until you get to Cumbria. Same goes for Yorkshire really. Ok south of Wakey you've got Sheffield and Donny, but neither of them are what you could all powerful. The last time I went to a Sheffield home game it was played on an open field. The traditional counties had been used for various purposes before they became the basis for council areas in 1889. In 1974 those council functions (and some other responsibilities) were reorganised. The new areas those functions were based around were then also named 'counties' - a mistake in my opinion (sub-regions or something would have avoided a lot of confusion). Some of these local authorities had the same name as the traditional county, which wasn't an issue for those which covered the same area, but for others (like Lancashire) it was/is confusing. One of the functions that was not removed from the traditional counties was sports administration - cricket, association football and both codes of rugby continued to use the traditional counties for their teams and administrative areas (with some minor tinkering in some cases). Lancashire still play cricket at Old Trafford and played at Aigburth (Liverpool) until 2019, Middlesbrough FC are subject to the North Riding of Yorkshire FA, Crystal Palace are subject to the Surrey FA and Sale Sharks to the Cheshire RFU (based on the location of Sale, despite the team having moved to a stadium on the Lancashire side of the Mersey), Yorkshire & Lancashire RL roses matches continued, etc. Although the traditional counties no longer have local government functions, they still exist as geographical and social/cultural (including sporting) entities. The bottom line is that everyone knows that when someone refers to 'Lancashire' in a RL context, they mean the traditional county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Mead Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 More historical nonsense, peak rugby league..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I always put Lancashire in the address when I send a birthday card to my Mum in Wigan and it always gets there OK so as far as I am concerned, Wigan is still in Lancashire. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 If you’re looking at the application of the Lancashire reference when talking about the present and future of RL, it’s pointless. It’s been 40 years. Ask a potential young RL fan in Wigan, St. Helens, Widnes or Leigh* what they feel about the Lancashire thing and they probably won’t have a clue what you’re on about. Time to move on. * I deliberately left Warrington off the list as the town has always been split in two, with the club spending most of its existence just south of the old boundary (the river) in Cheshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I always put Lancashire in the address when I send a birthday card to my Mum in Wigan and it always gets there OK so as far as I am concerned, Wigan is still in Lancashire. You could write what you like on it, if it’s got the correct postcode and house number it’ll get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said: More historical nonsense, peak rugby league..... So very little league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said: Would be interesting to know how many grassroots RL clubs can be found located on that map. Off the top of my head: Chorley Panthers, Leyland Warriors, Blackpool Scorpions, Blackpool Stanley, Preston Rabbitohs and Heysham Atoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 If we feel the need to keep harking on about the past, how far back are we allowed to reminisce? Anyone for a yearly ‘Pangaea of Origin’ contest between the Theropods and Sauropods? Of course, it will be played the same weekend as normal dinosaur battles and the Therapods probably won’t convince T-Rex’s club to release him for the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Mackem Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Whippet13 said: Off the top of my head: Chorley Panthers, Leyland Warriors, Blackpool Scorpions, Blackpool Stanley, Preston Rabbitohs and Heysham Atoms. Good to see a club in Preston. Like the name too. Theres definitely room for improvement though on the number of grassroots clubs in a county of over 1.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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