Lancashire. RL heartland?

[Cumbrian Mackem]

I say Bring back the Lancashire Lynx as the counties premier professional RL club.

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

I imagine most people in St Helens, Leigh, Wigan would say they’re from Lancashire if asked what country they were from, rather than Merseyside / Greater Manchester? Weirdly in Liverpool however you’d have literally no idea that it was ever in Lancashire, and I’d wager that over 95% of teenagers there wouldn’t know. Maybe if they’d called Merseyside and GM West and South Lancs like they did in Yorkshire the identity would now be stronger. 

I think its an age thing, if you went into any school I would be amazed if any in St helens, wigan and leigh would say they are lancastrian.

St helens is very similar to liverpool and mass migration from liverpool to the town has seen this mentality intensified.

I would say as we are in the 21st century and half a century has passed since the border changes then we can no longer consider Lancashire as a heartland, and before someone pipes up about the county team Man Utd have supporters from all over the north west as do Liverpool, Lancashire is just the nearest county team to support.

I have also always thought that the Lancashire cup in rugby terms should be renamed to north west cup as a truer reflection of the teams that enter. 

Genuine question had Warrington ever been in Lancashire?

[Cheshire Setter]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

Genuine question had Warrington ever been in Lancashire?

The club spent it’s first couple of years as Warrington Zingari in Lancashire. Also, for a brief period the boundary moved Sourn to the Manchester Ship Canal and the club was Lancashire based.

For the most part it’s been Cheshire though. Unlike the town which was split in two.

 

[Barley Mow]

9 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Genuine question had Warrington ever been in Lancashire?

The Lancashire-Cheshire boundary is the Mersey. Warrington (the town) when first established was in Lancashire and as it grew, spread partly into Cheshire.

Wilderspool was in Cheshire. The Halliwell Jones is the Lancashire side of the river.

Edit - Cheshire Setter beat me to it by seconds - glad that local knowledge backs up my comment!

[yipyee]

59 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Whilst we are back on this old chestnut again I'll throw in the obligatory "there is no professional cricket club in Lancashire".

But there are 2 proffessional football clubs in Salford, one being the most successful English club..

So the city of Salford host great teams without the name Salford attached

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

It’s clearly not a Rugby League heartland. Ignoring the fact there isn’t a single professional or semi professional team within the Lancashire boundary, I don’t even believe there are many amateur teams, can anyone prove me wrong and produce a long list of Lancashire based clubs?

From the top of my head

Heyshom Atoms

Chorley Panthers

Leyland warriors

Blackpool scorpions?

 

For what its worth this is Union territory and there is a long list of clubs from this area.. infact practically all the pins/names alone (on the map) have a union club

[Oxford]

I'll be there in a minute everyone, it's just taking time to clear the avian poo off my key board. Won't be long!

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, voteronniegibbs said:

Ooh, a proper pub argument type thread. I'll throw the 1st chair and say no it can't. 

As this was made up by the John Wayne think alike give me that chair and make sure it's not one of those western bar fight scene pretend ones.

[The Frying Scotsman]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

But there are 2 proffessional football clubs in Salford, one being the most successful English club..

So the city of Salford host great teams without the name Salford attached

If you are talking about Man Utd, their stadium is in Trafford I think, albeit only a few metres from the Salford boundary.

Your point stands though. 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

Bring back war of the roses 

[yipyee]

53 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

Bring back war of the roses 

A bunch of amatuer clubs vs Yorkshire, that will guarentee a yorkshire win

[Davo5]

2 hours ago, yipyee said:

I think its an age thing, if you went into any school I would be amazed if any in St helens, wigan and leigh would say they are lancastrian.

St helens is very similar to liverpool and mass migration from liverpool to the town has seen this mentality intensified.

I would say as we are in the 21st century and half a century has passed since the border changes then we can no longer consider Lancashire as a heartland, and before someone pipes up about the county team Man Utd have supporters from all over the north west as do Liverpool, Lancashire is just the nearest county team to support.

I have also always thought that the Lancashire cup in rugby terms should be renamed to north west cup as a truer reflection of the teams that enter. 

Genuine question had Warrington ever been in Lancashire?

Tell that to the large number of St Helens,Wigan,Warrington lads who regularly turn out for Lancashire from U15s & up the age groups to open age.

[Griff]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Yes, it’s based on the historical county, not manufactured modern administrative units. 

Thank you, Eddie.  Wise words indeed.

There are actually three types of county, the geographical county (boundaries unchanged in 1974), the administrative counties (change every ten minutes, especially in South Wales) and ceremonial counties, which have a Lord Lieutenant.  They are all valid - for their own purposes.

All this seems to have escaped a lot of folk, especially in Lancashire where people were desperate to get out to "places" like Cumbria or Cheshire.

There have long been places where it makes sense for an administrative council to take charge of parts of a neighbouring council.  Places such as Todmorden, Barnoldswick, Warrington, Belfast, Glasgow and the entire county of Cromartyshire. But the actual geographical county boundaries are unaffected.

[The Frying Scotsman]

17 minutes ago, Griff said:

There have long been places where it makes sense for an administrative council to take charge of parts of a neighbouring council.  Places such as Todmorden, Barnoldswick, Warrington, Belfast, Glasgow and the entire county of Cromartyshire. But the actual geographical county boundaries are unaffected.

I am Scottish, born and bred, and in my 40s. I have never heard that word used in my entire life. 

Seriously - it sounds like somewhere that existed in the 1950s. 

[JonM]

36 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Seriously - it sounds like somewhere that existed in the 1950s. 

It stopped existing as a county in 1890.

The population centres of any size on the map (Preston, Burnley, Blackburn, Blackpool, Accrington) had their local football clubs among the founders of the Football League back in the 1880s. Hardly surprising that rugby of either code never really became a popular sport in that area. Central & East Lancashire also had professional cricket leagues before RL was even formed, and was able to generate bigger attendances and pay higher wages than county cricket for most of the 20th century.

[The Frying Scotsman]

4 minutes ago, JonM said:

It stopped existing as a county in 1890.

Thanks @JonM . As I might have mentioned before, a lot of Rugby League fans do seem to live rooted in the past....

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Tell that to the large number of St Helens,Wigan,Warrington lads who regularly turn out for Lancashire from U15s & up the age groups to open age.

Like I said its a rep team and should be renamed to North West, or play proper counties..

Lets be honest Sheens rang round on a thursday to get lads to play for a made up team and got lads to represent I dont know what?

At the end of the day its one of those oddities that show how outdated RL is currently

[yipyee]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

Yes, it’s based on the historical county, not manufactured modern administrative units. 

The historical county was of course a made up administrative unit at one point though, it just depends weather you want to live in the past or the present..

If your a warrington fan its the latter as they won the league in the deep dark past

[ELBOWSEYE]

5 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

'Selnec'

Use to be the regional bus company name in the 70s before changing to Greater Manchester Transport and eventually split into First group and Stagecoach. 

[Barley Mow]

24 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Like I said its a rep team and should be renamed to North West, or play proper counties..

Lets be honest Sheens rang round on a thursday to get lads to play for a made up team and got lads to represent I dont know what?

At the end of the day its one of those oddities that show how outdated RL is currently

It isn't an oddity of RL though. I posted on the previous page that other sports and other cultural organisations continued using the geographical/traditional counties for their organisations once they were no longer used for local government administration.

Both rugby codes, football, cricket, field hockey, netball and possibly others are all organised along traditional county lines in England.

The traditional counties were abandoned for local government purposes, but they had existed long before those local government functions were introduced in 1889 and continued to exist after the local government functions were reassigned.

As I've said earlier, everyone knows that when Lancashire is referred to in RL (or other sports), it means the traditional county rather than the local government area.

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Tell that to the large number of St Helens,Wigan,Warrington lads who regularly turn out for Lancashire from U15s & up the age groups to open age.

Indeed, and the so called State of Origin rules are a convenient moveable feast.

[Rupert Prince]

25 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Like I said its a rep team and should be renamed to North West, or play proper counties..

Lets be honest Sheens rang round on a thursday to get lads to play for a made up team and got lads to represent I dont know what?

At the end of the day its one of those oddities that show how outdated RL is currently

There are lots of oddities in the way RL is managed here, but the one you are harking about is not one of them.

(The RU have a County Cup.  You won't see a West Midlands or a Greater Manchester team in it, but there is a Lancashire one.)

[yipyee]

15 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

There are lots of oddities in the way RL is managed here, but the one you are harking about is not one of them.

(The RU have a County Cup.  You won't see a West Midlands or a Greater Manchester team in it, but there is a Lancashire one.)

Theres also a cheshire one too.. 

I am saying RL should modernise, pointing out sports which hasnt doesnt really mean anything!

[yipyee]

29 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

It isn't an oddity of RL though. I posted on the previous page that other sports and other cultural organisations continued using the geographical/traditional counties for their organisations once they were no longer used for local government administration.

Both rugby codes, football, cricket, field hockey, netball and possibly others are all organised along traditional county lines in England.

The traditional counties were abandoned for local government purposes, but they had existed long before those local government functions were introduced in 1889 and continued to exist after the local government functions were reassigned.

As I've said earlier, everyone knows that when Lancashire is referred to in RL (or other sports), it means the traditional county rather than the local government area.

For traditional sports who are long set in their ways.. doesnt mean it has to be though... sure merseyside have a netball team too??

Merseyside also run a youth games, who qualifies for that then if merseyside doesnt exsist?

[Rupert Prince]

In RU terms they have a County Cup and have got some combined teams. But Lancashire includes the Metropolitan districts. As an e.g., 'North Midlands' - Herts Shropshire Worcs & Greater Birmingham.

From our own perspective we can have a Lancashire/Cumbria combination and a Yorkshire/Northumberland one - as an Origin match, one to 'test our senior players.  Our 'origin' rules can be as moveable as we want.

There is nothing wrong with using the historic names.   All to often we go on about 'heretige' players, but sneer at our own proud heretige.