Danny Ward leaves London

[EssexRL]

Whatever comes next and, sadly whatever the situation with Hughes is I think something does need to come next, it has to be a fresh start - not a version of what has been and it has to have a buzz about it. Jeez you'd think someone or company in London would be interested.

 

[gingerjon]

55 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Community RL - senior and junior - across London & SE and the East isn't in decline, certainly if you are looking over the past 5 years. The numbers and quality coming through right now are pretty impressive. Getting volunteers onboard is a bigger problem than playing numbers.

It does seem to be less visible though? - although I will accept that we've all seen too many RL initiatives that are a nice online presence and naff all else.

[Archie Gordon]

54 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It does seem to be less visible though? 

We'd need a metric for visibility to know that. 

But I agree that RL's presence in London has declined and that can be measured in no SL team, fewer Broncos/Skolars fans, the loss of big international fixtures, etc. However, I don't  think the community game has ever been that aligned to what happens in the pro game (right now, that's fortunate) and it seems to be chugging along pretty well IMO. For that reason, I don't see kids switching back to union even if the Broncos scholarship/academy sinks - I would just expect Northern clubs to start taking an interest.

I know you've said this before but if the RFL is bothered about London - and it should be for quite a few reasons - it needs to put more money/resources on the table. 

[Marauder]

Is it time to move the professional outfit slightly North but concentrate on the amateur/junior development in the capital and surrounding areas.   

[Hela Wigmen]

9 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Is it time to move the professional outfit slightly North but concentrate on the amateur/junior development in the capital and surrounding areas.   

And start from scratch elsewhere? What’s the point?

[Guest]

Anyone know what has happened to the Southern league? For example, there was a team in Tunbridge Wells, Weald Warriors, I could also watch - but their website is not working.

Is that all still suspended for COVID?

[Marauder]

2 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

And start from scratch elsewhere? What’s the point?

Did Wasps start from scratch or the others who relocated and the point is somewhere in between may attract new players/supporters, they will still attract the Southern lads and us Northerners may just travel sarf in greater numbers, as a person who travels the country with my work, I can tell you travelling wise I'd sooner go into deepest darkest Kent than into London, in fact give me Scotland any day of the week.

[Man of Kent]

20 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Anyone know what has happened to the Southern league? For example, there was a team in Tunbridge Wells, Weald Warriors, I could also watch - but their website is not working.

Weald Warriors are long gone. Yer archetypal one-man band playing out of a RU club that folded.

[Hela Wigmen]

18 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Did Wasps start from scratch or the others who relocated and the point is somewhere in between may attract new players/supporters, they will still attract the Southern lads and us Northerners may just travel sarf in greater numbers, as a person who travels the country with my work, I can tell you travelling wise I'd sooner go into deepest darkest Kent than into London, in fact give me Scotland any day of the week.

Did an established brand start again? Well, no, that’s the point here. London are in the mud, it would essentially be starting over. 

[Archie Gordon]

We are effectively already starting from scratch wrt 2022 - almost no players contracted, no head coach, nowhere to play, (very charitably) a limited off-field operation, perhaps 100 season ticket holders. 

 

[EssexRL]

53 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

 

But I agree that RL's presence in London has declined and that can be measured in no SL team, fewer Broncos/Skolars fans, the loss of big international fixtures, etc. However, I don't  think the community game has ever been that aligned to what happens in the pro game (right now, that's fortunate) and it seems to be chugging along pretty well IMO. For that reason, I don't see kids switching back to union even if the Broncos scholarship/academy sinks - I would just expect Northern clubs to start taking an interest.

I know you've said this before but if the RFL is bothered about London - and it should be for quite a few reasons - it needs to put more money/resources on the table. 

You're right. We need to support and build the community game including women's, LD, & PD. Unless there is a decent investment in the game (not just players but the infrastructure around it to market the game) then the best we can hope for at pro level is Skolars plodding along in L1 (although given the changes likely that might not last long either). There needs to be fresh blood/new ideas too. 

Are the RFL interested in London? It doesn't feel like it. Should they be? Of course.

[Marauder]

7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Did an established brand start again? Well, no, that’s the point here. London are in the mud, it would essentially be starting over. 

 So do they stay and how the doom and gloom is being reported on here surrender or withdraw and live to fight another day in starting in exactly the same position (As reported by Archie Gordon) but logistically a little bit closure to the hot bed of player resources, possibility of a new audience and cheaper rent.

Maybe do like a few amateur sides have done when turning to summer rugby and embrace a greater area than just one town (example Dearne Valley Bulldogs)

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

 So do they stay and how the doom and gloom is being reported on here surrender or withdraw and live to fight another day in starting in exactly the same position (As reported by Archie Gordon) but logistically a little bit closure to the hot bed of player resources, possibility of a new audience and cheaper rent.

Maybe do like a few amateur sides have done when turning to summer rugby and embrace a greater area than just one town (example Dearne Valley Bulldogs)

It’s some throw of the dice to move a club to a brand new area. As we’ve seen with their countless moves over the years. 

[EssexRL]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It’s some throw of the dice to move a club to a brand new area. As we’ve seen with their countless moves over the years. 

Also its not like London Irish moving. This is not a team or sport with a high profile. Why on earth would people in South West London start flocking to matches when people in Ealing didn't? How are people going to find out about the club? Is there a marketing strategy and resource? Wigan moving to Wimbledon could attract people, Broncos won't without a huge effort. 

Last time I saw them play was against Dewsbury at Barnet (a good game) but things felt shaky then. Five-six years on and it feels rock bottom. The coach was the best thing about the team (and the die hard fans, of course). I feel very sad about this but I can't see any way back.

[Marauder]

6 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

You're right. We need to support and build the community game including women's, LD, & PD. Unless there is a decent investment in the game (not just players but the infrastructure around it to market the game) then the best we can hope for at pro level is Skolars plodding along in L1 (although given the changes likely that might not last long either). There needs to be fresh blood/new ideas too. 

Are the RFL interested in London? It doesn't feel like it. Should they be? Of course.

Going to throw you a curved ball at you, the amount of money invested in London has brought little in return IMO and if half the amount had been invested in South Yorkshire I'm sure we'd have been able to move further South a long time ago, by now we would probably be in a position to move the creeping barrage further South than lets say Nottingham.

Chasing the rose garden in London hasn't worked any where near as the sparkly eyed RFL management wanted, maybe we should have taken the Japanese knotweed approach and gradually taken over the garden.

[Marauder]

12 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It’s some throw of the dice to move a club to a brand new area. As we’ve seen with their countless moves over the years. 

From what I've read on here over many years it's probably easier and quicker to travel 40 miles North of London than across the city, so really it would only be another move.

[EastLondonMike]

If theres anyone on here that knows better feel free to correct me, but the only investment the game in London at community level ever received was from Sports England grants, circa 2015. Once that funding started to decrease and ultimately stop, thats when the RFL walked away from the community game in London and were left to fend for themselves. 

I don't know if the RFL ever invested directly. 

[EastLondonMike]

5 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Going to throw you a curved ball at you, the amount of money invested in London has brought little in return IMO and if half the amount had been invested in South Yorkshire I'm sure we'd have been able to move further South a long time ago, by now we would probably be in a position to move the creeping barrage further South than lets say Nottingham.

Chasing the rose garden in London hasn't worked any where near as the sparkly eyed RFL management wanted, maybe we should have taken the Japanese knotweed approach and gradually taken over the garden.

To be honest its not the amount, it's how it was invested. 'Invested' is probably completely the wrong word to use. As that suggests there was actually a planned strategy to be achieved.

If half the money was spent in the same way, and by the same people, in any part of the world, the outcome would have been quite a bit worse than it actually was.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Did Wasps start from scratch or the others who relocated and the point is somewhere in between may attract new players/supporters, they will still attract the Southern lads and us Northerners may just travel sarf in greater numbers, as a person who travels the country with my work, I can tell you travelling wise I'd sooner go into deepest darkest Kent than into London, in fact give me Scotland any day of the week.

Nobody from London is travelling outside London to watch a side.

[EssexRL]

10 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Going to throw you a curved ball at you, the amount of money invested in London has brought little in return IMO and if half the amount had been invested in South Yorkshire I'm sure we'd have been able to move further South a long time ago, by now we would probably be in a position to move the creeping barrage further South than lets say Nottingham.

Chasing the rose garden in London hasn't worked any where near as the sparkly eyed RFL management wanted, maybe we should have taken the Japanese knotweed approach and gradually taken over the garden.

I suppose it says something about the sport that its an either/or? It should be both. The thing is London could/should have worked at a higher level (I would argue Skolars are doing as well as many L1 sides and Champ ones including our community teams). 

[Marauder]

8 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

Also its not like London Irish moving. This is not a team or sport with a high profile. Why on earth would people in South West London start flocking to matches when people in Ealing didn't? How are people going to find out about the club? Is there a marketing strategy and resource? Wigan moving to Wimbledon could attract people, Broncos won't without a huge effort. 

Last time I saw them play was against Dewsbury at Barnet (a good game) but things felt shaky then. Five-six years on and it feels rock bottom. The coach was the best thing about the team (and the die hard fans, of course). I feel very sad about this but I can't see any way back.

I think you've answered the question in your statement and didn't you (not going to look back to see who it was) state they have doubled the price of a season ticket and only sold 200, if that's the case I can tell you our game at Sherwood (Mansfield) would have had around a thousand watching and the week before our home game against Sheffield Hawks attracted many more, I dare say the Sherwood v Sheffield Hawks game last week would again topped the 1,000 mark, this is in the 5th Division South of the YML and not one of the 3 teams are in a traditional area.

[Marauder]

11 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

If theres anyone on here that knows better feel free to correct me, but the only investment the game in London at community level ever received was from Sports England grants, circa 2015. Once that funding started to decrease and ultimately stop, thats when the RFL walked away from the community game in London and were left to fend for themselves. 

I don't know if the RFL ever invested directly. 

The worse decision the RFL have ever done in the history of the game was pulling the funding for development officers, Doncaster RLFC where coaching in all but two schools in the district, they also attended schools in Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Worksop, Gainsborough & Lincoln, Doncaster alone has a population of 300,000 so in theory they was giving a vast area a sniff of rugby league.

[Marauder]

12 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Nobody from London is travelling outside London to watch a side.

So the union teams took the chance and have established themselves outside of London with a brand new supporters base?

[EastLondonMike]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

The worse decision the RFL have ever done in the history of the game was pulling the funding for development officers, Doncaster RLFC where coaching in all but two schools in the district, they also attended schools in Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Worksop, Gainsborough & Lincoln, Doncaster alone has a population of 300,000 so in theory they was giving a vast area a sniff of rugby league.

I guess the big issue was what led to the Sport England withdrawing the level of funding, and the game not being in a position to invest to such levels itself.

Not 100% but think it was down to participation numbers dropping significantly. I might be wrong.

[EssexRL]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

So the union teams took the chance and have established themselves outside of London with a brand new supporters base?

Yes London Irish first came to my football team Reading and built a local fan base of 11,000 or so...