France officially to bid to host 2025 Rugby League World Cup

[welshmagpie]

Something that seems to have been missed in this wonderful news is the reference to a junior World Cup. That in itself is wonderful and an important next step for international rugby league.

[JM2010]

2 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Something that seems to have been missed in this wonderful news is the reference to a junior World Cup. That in itself is wonderful and an important next step for international rugby league.

I missed that one. That would be a great step and motivation for young players. Is it u19s?

 

[Big Picture]

6 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I'd love to see France v Canada, France v USA, France v Jamaica and France v Brazil (et al) to build the French brand between World Cups.

So from me, a big thank-you, to Wayne Bennett and Trent Robinson, for their insightful intervention, please, please keep it coming?

With their heritage players Jamaica is easily the strongest of those four American countries and the 2017 match between France and Jamaica was a pretty low-key affair which France won easily as you can see here:

I'm not sure if easy wins over those countries would necessarily do a lot to build the French brand.

[The Rocket]

7 hours ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure why you are attributing what Bennett, who has shown his love of the international game time and again, and Robinson, whose love of France and the game there is well known, to the NRL.

As I`ve said before Damo, these blokes all talk, I find it hard to believe that Bennett and Robbo didn`t run this past V`landy`s before they did anything, and that would have perfectly suited the NRL agenda of delaying the WC coming back here too soon. Who knows, it was very likely those sort of conversations that inspired Bennett and Robinson to come up with the idea in the first place and run with it.

And I`ve no doubt Bennett through his 50+ year relationship with Bruce Hatcher and the QRL would have been in the loop with the Pacific Trieze thing and probably fluent French speaking Robinson would have been consulted as well.

Anyway mate I don`t care who`s pushing it, but I reckon if we can get through WC2021 with some full houses there could be a real buzz heading towards France2025 which you would think would have to be odds on of being a success because of the great attitude English fans have towards travel and filling up some of those grounds that will make all the difference and take a bit of pressure of the French of having to fill them themselves .And as we know from over here, full or close to full houses make all the difference with events like this.

[The Rocket]

7 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Personally, I can't wait, for Toulouse to get into Super League, which will definitely stiffen the competition, bring some badly needed novelty and (I'm sure) attract a lot more interest, here and in France.

A successful World Cup here, could show the French (and their gov't) what can be achieved with just a little backing and a more competitive France gives the whole game a more credible global image.

As you and I both know from reading and recognising a lot of sense in `whatmichealsays` posts of the last few months it would seem to me a credible and growing French presence could be the circuit-breaker that Super League needs to stop from sliding into total obscurity.

We`re confident in the product, but it`s not cutting through, WMS`s thoughts on repackaging the whole game through social media certainly had merit. Where the game comes from shouldn`t matter if it is packaged right and sold as a product in itself, but I always feared that limited geographical spread and unfortunately the perception of that spread, was always going to make it a hard sell, a powerhouse Toulouse, Catalans, maybe Carcassone( I know nothing about where the game may grow out of in France) may make people take a look at League in a whole different light and that`s what we need in the wider non-League loving populace. Then we can use WMS`s ideas.

[fighting irish]

14 hours ago, Big Picture said:

With their heritage players Jamaica is easily the strongest of those four American countries and the 2017 match between France and Jamaica was a pretty low-key affair which France won easily as you can see here:

I'm not sure if easy wins over those countries would necessarily do a lot to build the French brand.

Nor me. I am sure that being in the public eye is better than not being in the public eye. Playing the French will also do wonders for the developing nations I mentioned. Nothing stays the same BP, so I'm projecting growth in the future, you seem adamant on insisting that these new Nations will always be hopeless. Let's play, for God's sake! 

[Big Picture]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Nor me. I am sure that being in the public eye is better than not being in the public eye. Playing the French will also do wonders for the developing nations I mentioned. Nothing stays the same BP, so I'm projecting growth in the future, you seem adamant on insisting that these new Nations will always be hopeless. Let's play, for God's sake! 

Oh I don't think they'll always be hopeless, just that without serious money to tempt much better converts to come over from RU and/or gridiron in those countries it will take many long years for them to amount to much.  The way the heritage Filipinos recently beat a Brazilian team comprised mostly of Brazilians who currently live in Australia and have taken up the game there demonstrates that.

[fighting irish]

8 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Oh I don't think they'll always be hopeless, just that without serious money to tempt much better converts to come over from RU and/or gridiron in those countries it will take many long years for them to amount to much.  The way the heritage Filipinos recently beat a Brazilian team comprised mostly of Brazilians who currently live in Australia and have taken up the game there demonstrates that.

The match, you referred to finished 36 - 12 and Jamaica had a try disallowed in the first half, which as far as I could see was a legitimate score.

You called it a ''comfortable'' win for the French (and I agree) but you imply that that is somehow unacceptable (even pointless) from a fans point of view and I disagree wholeheartedly.

The game was very watchable, (apart from an over zealous referee, who seemed determined to stop the play) the Jamaican's put up a decent fight and can feel justly proud of their performance.

I imagine they would relish another crack at it. My whole point is, it's better to play these games than not to. I'm sure also that the prospect of being involved in matches like this is an important incentive to young players playing our game. If they can at least break-even then the more games like this we play the world over, the better for all concerned. 

You seem to be one of the most prolific posters on here but you very rarely (if ever) have anything positive to say about the game, those involved in it or anybody trying to promote the game anywhere in the world.

Your usual approach is to imply that unless the game is on a par with NFL in terms of money, tv coverage, spectator numbers, razzamatazz,  then we (true enthusiasts) are just wasting our time. WTF are you doing here?

You're the biggest troll on this forum but you just won't admit it. 

[Big Picture]

14 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

The match, you referred to finished 36 - 12 and Jamaica had a try disallowed in the first half, which as far as I could see was a legitimate score.

You called it a ''comfortable'' win for the French (and I agree) but you imply that that is somehow unacceptable (even pointless) from a fans point of view and I disagree wholeheartedly.

The game was very watchable, (apart from an over zealous referee, who seemed determined to stop the play) the Jamaican's put up a decent fight and can feel justly proud of their performance.

I imagine they would relish another crack at it. My whole point is, it's better to play these games than not to. I'm sure also that the prospect of being involved in matches like this is an important incentive to young players playing our game. If they can at least break-even then the more games like this we play the world over, the better for all concerned. 

You seem to be one of the most prolific posters on here but you very rarely (if ever) have anything positive to say about the game, those involved in it or anybody trying to promote the game anywhere in the world.

Your usual approach is to imply that unless the game is on a par with NFL in terms of money, tv coverage, spectator numbers, razzamatazz,  then we (true enthusiasts) are just wasting our time. WTF are you doing here?

You're the biggest troll on this forum but you just won't admit it. 

You misunderstood me, it's certainly acceptable to play such matches.  Just don't expect them to produce some sort of breakthrough for the game.

I agree that match was very watchable, I enjoyed it too.  I hope it did at least break even, but with a crowd of under 5,000 in a country where SL TV rights aren't worth much to their broadcasters the revenue from it was probably modest.

The game is great, or at least it was before the play became as dull and predictable as it often is now.  It could easily be made better still, on the field at least.  That however isn't enough to overcome the declining/stagnant crowds and TV audiences which threaten its future.  It also isn't enough to stem the flow of coaches, administrators and players leaving for better opportunities in RU which also threatens its future.

By no means is anyone involved in grassroots development wasting their time, all development is good.  I just don't expect that sort of development to produce any major change in the game's fortunes, that's a fanciful idea.

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

You misunderstood me, it's certainly acceptable to play such matches.  Just don't expect them to produce some sort of breakthrough for the game.

I agree that match was very watchable, I enjoyed it too.  I hope it did at least break even, but with a crowd of under 5,000 in a country where SL TV rights aren't worth much to their broadcasters the revenue from it was probably modest.

The game is great, or at least it was before the play became as dull and predictable as it often is now.  It could easily be made better still, on the field at least.  That however isn't enough to overcome the declining/stagnant crowds and TV audiences which threaten its future.  It also isn't enough to stem the flow of coaches, administrators and players leaving for better opportunities in RU which also threatens its future.

By no means is anyone involved in grassroots development wasting their time, all development is good.  I just don't expect that sort of development to produce any major change in the game's fortunes, that's a fanciful idea.

I never mentioned the idea of a ''major change''.

What I'm advocating is small, incremental improvements, steadily moving us, in the right direction. A never ending process (the Japanese call Kaizen) resulting in more, (of everything) so when we look back, in 10 years time, we can see measurable increases in the numbers of people, teams, nations involved in rugby league. International teams, playing each other, is a vital (and exciting) part of that process.

Here's a cliche, nevertheless true, ''We tend to overestimate what can be achieved in a year and (grossly) underestimate what can be achieved in a decade''. All I'm saying is that moving forward, is better than stagnating or declining. Newcastle's achievements (on the ground) are a great example to us all.

Just imagine if that kind of programme had existed everywhere, for the last 40 years, not just in Newcastle. Then what kind of global reach would we be boasting about now? You BP, make the mistake that so many do, of devaluing Kaizen.

This attitude tends to paralyze people, convincing them there's no point in doing what little they can (so they do nothing) simply because they can't bring about ''major change'' overnight.

That's not the way the world works BP. You have to be willing to delay gratification (and still keep working towards your goals) to achieve greatness or anything worthwhile, in fact. 

Your attitude is by contrast, immature and a prescription for doing nothing till our sugar daddy arrives, or wild foolhardy, reckless gambles, (like so many start-up pro clubs, in this country) or stagnation and slow death.

[welshmagpie]

22 hours ago, JM2010 said:

I missed that one. That would be a great step and motivation for young players. Is it u19s?

 

I’m not sure sorry. 

[fighting irish]

7 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Oh I don't think they'll always be hopeless, just that without serious money to tempt much better converts to come over from RU and/or gridiron in those countries it will take many long years for them to amount to much.  The way the heritage Filipinos recently beat a Brazilian team comprised mostly of Brazilians who currently live in Australia and have taken up the game there demonstrates that.

I don't think the example you quote demonstrates anything at all.

I don't know much about the match you refer to, but a team of Rugby League players, raised in Australia, (with Filipino heritage) could be a great team, whilst a team selected from a small number of Brazilian students, who just happen to be living and studying in Australia may never have played the game before and I'd guess, are certainly nowhere near indicative of the best that the whole of Brazil could put up. (Aren't Brazil a competitive RU 7's Nation?)

Finally, I want to add, that I'd rather have Brazil playing our game (even if it will take many long years for them to amount to much) than not have them at all.

An acorn contains everything needed to grow a forest. 

I just wish you'd stop being so bl......dy negative about TGG. 

[Big Picture]

16 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I don't think the example you quote demonstrates anything at all.

I don't know much about the match you refer to, but a team of Rugby League players, raised in Australia, (with Filipino heritage) could be a great team, whilst a team selected from a small number of Brazilian students, who just happen to be living and studying in Australia may never have played the game before and I'd guess, are certainly nowhere near indicative of the best that the whole of Brazil could put up. (Aren't Brazil a competitive RU 7's Nation?)

Finally, I want to add, that I'd rather have Brazil playing our game (even if it will take many long years for them to amount to much) than not have them at all.

An acorn contains everything needed to grow a forest. 

I just wish you'd stop being so bl......dy negative about TGG. 

I'd love to have a major sporting nation like Brazil playing our game, especially if that could be at a level which would inspire good numbers of young Brazilians to take it up.  The match which I referenced is the recent one in Sydney, there's a video on Facebook, I think on the Brazilian RL page.  Just imagine what a World Cup involving both Brazil and the US could do for the game!

I'm not negative about the game at all, but I do see the limitations of what can be achieved within its current structures and how far short that is of what is needed to turn around its gradual decline in the northern hemisphere.  Better structures are needed to accomplish that.

[fighting irish]

10 hours ago, Big Picture said:

I'd love to have a major sporting nation like Brazil playing our game, especially if that could be at a level which would inspire good numbers of young Brazilians to take it up.  The match which I referenced is the recent one in Sydney, there's a video on Facebook, I think on the Brazilian RL page.  Just imagine what a World Cup involving both Brazil and the US could do for the game!

I'm not negative about the game at all, but I do see the limitations of what can be achieved within its current structures and how far short that is of what is needed to turn around its gradual decline in the northern hemisphere.  Better structures are needed to accomplish that.

You've not come up with one single idea, not one (other than your laughable scheme where a group of billionaires suddenly appears from the ether) to take the game forward.

In Brazil, the USA or anywhere else.

I rest my case.

 

[Damien]

A good read here. The mention of the Government is very interesting and hopefully they get plenty of support as it would be a game changer for the game in France:

Luc Lacoste is excited about the prospects for the sport with the boost that it can provide both domestically and internationally. “France 2025, we want it to happen, and we are not alone! In fact, everyone is behind us. Already messages are pouring in from the Southern Hemisphere, Asia, Africa, the United Kingdom and the Middle East. In fact, everyone was waiting for one thing, for France the great historical land of XIII, to wake up.

“With this candidacy, FFR XIII has decided to force fate and has placed French rugby league among the big players, and it fits perfectly into the French governments national heritage plan.

“The match has just started, so we are all together, confident and united… and everything will become possible! "

https://www.intrl.sport/news/french-rugby-league-president-says-everyone-wants-france-rlwc2025-bid-to-succeed/

[Jim from Oz]

Thinking ahead (I'm already excited about 2025 RLWC in France), I wonder where the final would be?

Is there a big, 60,000+ or (being optimistic) even 70,000+ stadium in the south of France? Say in Toulouse?

Surely the final would break the record for the biggest ever attendance for a RL match in France, 37,471, which occurred on Sunday, November 7, 1954, in the very first RLWC (result was France 13 drew with Great Britain 13).

[The Rocket]

14 hours ago, Damien said:

A good read here. The mention of the Government is very interesting and hopefully they get plenty of support as it would be a game changer for the game in France:

Luc Lacoste is excited about the prospects for the sport with the boost that it can provide both domestically and internationally. “France 2025, we want it to happen, and we are not alone! In fact, everyone is behind us. Already messages are pouring in from the Southern Hemisphere, Asia, Africa, the United Kingdom and the Middle East. In fact, everyone was waiting for one thing, for France the great historical land of XIII, to wake up.

“With this candidacy, FFR XIII has decided to force fate and has placed French rugby league among the big players, and it fits perfectly into the French governments national heritage plan.

“The match has just started, so we are all together, confident and united… and everything will become possible! "

https://www.intrl.sport/news/french-rugby-league-president-says-everyone-wants-france-rlwc2025-bid-to-succeed/

I had absolutely no idea there was this many players in France.

"The Elite Championship is growing in popularity and quality and through livestreaming, it is available around the world. There are 155 clubs spread through 24 regional committees which caters for over 20,000 players. With both Toulouse and Catalans Dragons sitting on top of the Championship and Super League, these are optimistic signs for rugby league in France and the RLWC2025 could well be the perfect way to celebrate the 91^st birthday of “rugby a Treize”.

Do you think we might to see a backlash from union, they`re already putting out brush-fires in the Pacific and N.Z. and they would be more than well aware of the situation in OZ.

I know times have changed and Governments favouring one sport over another is more difficult especially with regards to legislative preferential treatment. I suppose our cause is helped by the rise of politicians who want to appear to be getting behind popular causes to boost their working-class credentials, but there are still many other ways they could make life difficult for a code trying to break out of the shadow of a much established rival. And I suspect world rugby aren`t going to take the rise of League lying down.

I said this a few months back on a discussion on French League, I think the mere fact that our WC Trophy is named after a Frenchman cannot be emphasised enough. It would be great to see some sort of travelling road show, even on a minor scale, taking that trophy and some memorabilia of French Rugby League history touring the schools and cities of France leading up to a decision or certainly to a World Cup kicking off in 2025.

 

 

 

 

[Jim from Oz]

" It would be great to see some sort of travelling road show, even on a minor scale, taking that trophy and some memorabilia of French Rugby League history touring the schools and cities of France leading up to a decision or certainly to a World Cup kicking off in 2025."

Excellent idea Rocket Rod …

[The Rocket]

47 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

" It would be great to see some sort of travelling road show, even on a minor scale, taking that trophy and some memorabilia of French Rugby League history touring the schools and cities of France leading up to a decision or certainly to a World Cup kicking off in 2025."

Excellent idea Rocket Rod …

Yeah it`s not original mate, I think leading up to the 2000 Olympics over here there was a bus or something that was travelling around and stopped at our village, it was very accessible and a lot of people came out to have a look.

 But more to the point I thought if there might be some union backlash or at least resistance, some sort of travelling road show visiting schools and town squares etc would be a good opportunity to let the wider French public know how strong French Rugby League was once, and especially that trophy. Would be great if they could dig up some footage of those famous French teams that dazzled everyone with their flair. If they can get the French public aware of and even behind their bid it might help to circumvent any union shenanigans. Might just help with the crowds as well.

[Lowdesert]

4 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I had absolutely no idea there was this many players in France.

"The Elite Championship is growing in popularity and quality and through livestreaming, it is available around the world. There are 155 clubs spread through 24 regional committees which caters for over 20,000 players. With both Toulouse and Catalans Dragons sitting on top of the Championship and Super League, these are optimistic signs for rugby league in France and the RLWC2025 could well be the perfect way to celebrate the 91^st birthday of “rugby a Treize”.

Do you think we might to see a backlash from union, they`re already putting out brush-fires in the Pacific and N.Z. and they would be more than well aware of the situation in OZ.

I know times have changed and Governments favouring one sport over another is more difficult especially with regards to legislative preferential treatment. I suppose our cause is helped by the rise of politicians who want to appear to be getting behind popular causes to boost their working-class credentials, but there are still many other ways they could make life difficult for a code trying to break out of the shadow of a much established rival. And I suspect world rugby aren`t going to take the rise of League lying down.

I said this a few months back on a discussion on French League, I think the mere fact that our WC Trophy is named after a Frenchman cannot be emphasised enough. It would be great to see some sort of travelling road show, even on a minor scale, taking that trophy and some memorabilia of French Rugby League history touring the schools and cities of France leading up to a decision or certainly to a World Cup kicking off in 2025.

 

 

 

 

This is just my take on the politics thing.  The level of politics in France cannot be understated in my experience.  Elections take up every tv channel and is talked about daily everywhere.  Having said that, this Lacoste guy has fingers in both rugby camps and seems to be a perfect fit in identifying opportunities and any threats.  The planning is therefore essential and sensitive.

On the ‘roadshow’ I think that is an excellent idea.  France has a massive event in Le Tour already.  It is fantastic to go to a ‘Depart’ (start) where boutiques, memorabilia, displays etc are shown the day before the Depart.  The Carnival on the day of the Depart goes on for in excess of and hour. While this is going on, the Le Tour circus is being set up in the next town.  France has this off to perfection.  They would love it.

[jim_57]

8 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

Thinking ahead (I'm already excited about 2025 RLWC in France), I wonder where the final would be?

Is there a big, 60,000+ or (being optimistic) even 70,000+ stadium in the south of France? Say in Toulouse?

Surely the final would break the record for the biggest ever attendance for a RL match in France, 37,471, which occurred on Sunday, November 7, 1954, in the very first RLWC (result was France 13 drew with Great Britain 13).

Paris - 80k or 48k. 
Marseille - 69k. 
Lyon - 59k. 
Bordeaux - 42k. 
Toulouse - 33k. 
Montpellier - 32k. 
 

Those seem to be the main options for ‘Event’ games.

I’d go:

Opener - Toulouse

France/England DH - Montpellier or Lyon

Semis - Paris (48k)

Final - Marseille

But that would all depend on availability. It’s probably also be too ambitious now that I think about it. France hasn’t got a 20k+ crowd for some time so selling out Toulouse 33k and getting a few other 20k+ games would be a reasonably good result really. It will be interesting to see how large they try to go with it.

[Jim from Oz]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Yeah it`s not original mate, I think leading up to the 2000 Olympics over here there was a bus or something that was travelling around and stopped at our village, it was very accessible and a lot of people came out to have a look.

 But more to the point I thought if there might be some union backlash or at least resistance, some sort of travelling road show visiting schools and town squares etc would be a good opportunity to let the wider French public know how strong French Rugby League was once, and especially that trophy. Would be great if they could dig up some footage of those famous French teams that dazzled everyone with their flair. If they can get the French public aware of and even behind their bid it might help to circumvent any union shenanigans. Might just help with the crowds as well.

Yep, as I say, excellent idea. I have visited France many times in the past 15 years or so, have done a lot of cycle touring with my bike and panniers, and a lot of long-distance walking along the "chemin" ("camino" in Spain) paths that all head towards the Pyrenees.

Everywhere I go I ask people about rugby a XIII etc, and what they know about it. Lots and lots of people know absolutely nothing, some have a vague idea (They'll say, "I think it is played in Perpignon"), even fewer would have ever seen a game, and even fewer would know about French rugby league's incredible history.

The one place I met people knowledgable about rugby a XIII was (not surprisingly) in Carcasonne … as soon as I told the bar owner in one bar I was from Sydney, he immediately waxed lyrical about TGG … and in fact, his sister was married to a player in the French national team, and he had even come to Australia for the 2008 RLWC ! He then put on a recording of SOO on his bar TV for me … a Dutch family sitting near me starting watching it and you could tell from their faces they had no clue what this game was !

So yes, please, get a travelling road show visiting schools and town squares to let the wider French public know all about French Rugby League !!

[ATLANTISMAN]

I would use the following places for group games (Qtr Semis marked) 

Traditional 

Perpignan Qtr

Carcassonne Qtr

Toulouse Semi

Albi

Avignon Qtr

Other places (Rugby connections)

Montpelier Qtr

Grenoble 

Roanne

Clermont 

Agen

Bordeaux

Toulon Semi

Non Rugby (Union/League)

Nantes

Lens 

Calais (Very nice stadium built a few years ago when the football team gained promotion) 

Lille

Places to avoid

Strasburg

Lyon (Yes I know that this has some RL history however Football and Rugby Union are just to engrained now and the main stadium is far too big)

Paris (This could be the worst or the best decision however history tells us Paris is a white elephant)

Final MARSAILLE 

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Picture]

3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Bin off the big stadiums except for France opener, semis only need 30k and a final.

Looks a million times better for future sponsors and image of game to have 15 k grounds packed than 20 in a 40 k stadium. 

What leads you to think that the former is any better than the latter let alone "a million times better"?

[welshmagpie]

2 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

I would use the following places for group games (Qtr Semis marked) 

Traditional 

Perpignan Qtr

Carcassonne Qtr

Toulouse Semi

Albi

Avignon Qtr

Other places (Rugby connections)

Montpelier Qtr

Grenoble 

Roanne

Clermont 

Agen

Bordeaux

Toulon Semi

Non Rugby (Union/League)

Nantes

Lens 

Calais (Very nice stadium built a few years ago when the football team gained promotion) 

Lille

Places to avoid

Strasburg

Lyon (Yes I know that this has some RL history however Football and Rugby Union are just to engrained now and the main stadium is far too big)

Paris (This could be the worst or the best decision however history tells us Paris is a white elephant)

Final MARSAILLE 

 

 

 

 

 

Why’s Strasbourg a bad idea?