The Broadcasting and Business side of the NRL.

[Sports Prophet]

43 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Merely following your example.

You’ll have to enlighten me. I can’t think of an example when I got furious or similar over something I care little for.

Good game so far though. You watching?

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

You’ll have to enlighten me. I can’t think of an example when I got furious or similar over something I care little for.

You`ve mentioned switching off several NRL games in varying states of high dudgeon during this year`s overblown blowout odyssey.

Apparently the disgusted fury reached its zenith not long into the Titans/Warriors final round game. I suppose we`ll have to partly absolve you on that one since it was scuppering the Sharks` finals chances.

As always, how little or in what way you care for RL is unclear.

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Good game so far though. You watching?

Just seen the highlights. Looks as though the point at which blowout-obsessed casual fans would have switched off arrived towards the end of the third quarter.

Superficially 140 - 66 is a blowout. However, true and more sophisticated AFL fans will have seen it differently, and I imagine would have enjoyed the Demons racking up the points to bring it home in the fourth.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

You`ve mentioned switching off several NRL games in varying states of high dudgeon during this year`s overblown blowout odyssey.

Apparently the disgusted fury reached its zenith not long into the Titans/Warriors final round game. I suppose we`ll have to partly absolve you on that one since it was scuppering the Sharks` finals chances.

As always, how little or in what way you care for RL is unclear.

 

I am a member of the Cronulla Sharks Football Club. I am not a member of the Bombers or ever have been.

I watch more League than AFL.

I volunteer for the local rugby league, having sat on and on occasion chaired the judiciary panel 7 times this year. I don’t volunteer for any time for Australian rules.

I listen to 4 NRL podcasts weekly, I listen to no AFL podcasts.

I was a FT employee in RL for seven years. I have never been a paid employee of the AFL.

I could go on with more, but I think that gives a reasonably good account of how much I cared about that Sharks v Warriors game

But don’t let the facts get in the way of an attempt to belittle the feedback another poster. Why change habits that have served you so well?

[The Rocket]

50 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I am a member of the Cronulla Sharks Football Club. I am not a member of the Bombers or ever have been.

I watch more League than AFL.

I volunteer for the local rugby league, having sat on and on occasion chaired the judiciary panel 7 times this year. I don’t volunteer for any time for Australian rules.

I listen to 4 NRL podcasts weekly, I listen to no AFL podcasts.

I was a FT employee in RL for seven years. I have never been a paid employee of the AFL.

Sounds like trivia night at Northies.

Name this local Rugby League identity (and closet f-ball supporter).

 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

I am a member of the Cronulla Sharks Football Club. I am not a member of the Bombers or ever have been.

I watch more League than AFL.

I volunteer for the local rugby league, having sat on and on occasion chaired the judiciary panel 7 times this year. I don’t volunteer for any time for Australian rules.

I listen to 4 NRL podcasts weekly, I listen to no AFL podcasts.

I was a FT employee in RL for seven years. I have never been a paid employee of the AFL.

I believe you also assured us that you are not a member of any Fumbleball forum.

Don`t tell me - you`ve been banned as a Rugby League troll.

[The Rocket]

This one always gets him up on the dance floor.

Supernaut - I Like It Both Ways - Bing video

 

[unapologetic pedant]

The metro figures for the AFL GF are slightly up on last year. Which means that unless something truly extraordinary happens, they will absolutely smash the NRL GF again.

With Nine exclusivity, the NRL don`t stand a chance in the battle of the GFs. 

The Fumble was up a bit in Adelaide, up a bit more in Melbourne, down a bit in Sydney, down a lot in Brisbane, and up a lot in Perth.

Those latter two illustrate an interesting phenomenon. You`d think that with tens of thousands of locals at the stadium the host city ratings would be a bit lower. Yet it seems that when an event is held in their home city large numbers tune in to the TV coverage who otherwise wouldn`t. Maybe all the on-the-spot promotion has an effect.

The same happened to the Brisbane women`s Origin ratings when it moved from North Sydney to Sunshine Coast.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

This one always gets him up on the dance floor.

Supernaut - I Like It Both Ways - Bing video

 

Risky business. - Mata Hari was executed by firing squad.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The metro figures for the AFL GF are slightly up on last year. Which means that unless something truly extraordinary happens, they will absolutely smash the NRL GF again.

With Nine exclusivity, the NRL don`t stand a chance in the battle of the GFs. 

The Fumble was up a bit in Adelaide, up a bit more in Melbourne, down a bit in Sydney, down a lot in Brisbane, and up a lot in Perth.

Those latter two illustrate an interesting phenomenon. You`d think that with tens of thousands of locals at the stadium the host city ratings would be a bit lower. Yet it seems that when an event is held in their home city large numbers tune in to the TV coverage who otherwise wouldn`t. Maybe all the on-the-spot promotion has an effect.

The same happened to the Brisbane women`s Origin ratings when it moved from North Sydney to Sunshine Coast.

Channel 9 exclusivity of Origin doesn’t stop that rating the house down annually.

I don’t think the AFL GF was broadcast on Foxtel anyway, so it was an exclusive channel 7 event.

I would say that being up in all three of the major AFL cities would be very much due to the teams participating and the story for the winner compared to last year. But I think you are right also. Viewing figures always jump when a big event is hosted locally. 

I never understand how viewers in pubs and clubs are captured in viewing figures. Both sports will have plenty of viewers at the boozer.

Anyway, that’s done and dusted. Interestingly in the last five or six years we’ve seen Western/Footscray Bulldogs overcome a 62 year drought, Richmond put aside a 37 year drought and now Melbourne end 57 years without a premiership. St Kilda will be licking their lips. One premiership in 124 years. Shows the resilience of the club to survive. Especially when they rarely even make a push for a premiership. Enough of the AFL talk though, I know you lads can only handle so much.

As for the NRL next week where attention turns, I hope so much that Souths can extend the misery of those ugly westies

[The Rocket]

Figures are out now so we can compare the week 3 preliminary finals ratings between the two codes.

Frankly I didn`t give the NRL a snowballs when I saw the afl preliminary figures a fortnight ago, but once again it turned out to be probably decided by the streaming figures.

afl:   Game 1 Friday 11th September: 1 300 000 ( Metro 1 012k. Reg. 288k)  Fox. 428k Total: 1 728 000

      Game 2 Saturday 12th Sept: 1 180 000 ( M 920k. R 260k) Fox 384K Total: 1 564 000.

 

NRL:  Game 1 Friday 24th September: 1 083 000 ( M706k. R 377k ) Fox 428k Total 1 512 000

          Game 2 Sat. 25th  Sept: 1 270 000 ( M 810k. R 406k.) Fox 462k.  Total 1 678 000.

afl : 3 292 000                         NRL: 3 190 000

If we use the SportsIndustry estimates for streaming at 200 000/game f-ball and 300 000/game League that erases the 100 000 deficit on linear Tv and puts the League up by 100 000 over the course of the weekend. Quite incredible.

I imagine head office will be absolutely over the moon because leading on that headline figure, as is shown on general TV ratings, gives networks major bragging rights and is the figure that captures all the headlines. All though of course that is questionable in this case with the f-ball bias of our main TV ratings measurement and analysis outlets.

@Sports Prophet noticed in the last couple of weekends that the main sponsor on the electronic hoardings at all the NRL games has been the Insurance multinational Gallaghers, same mob who are the naming rights sponsor of the premiership union competition in England, wonder if they could be angling for a naming rights sponsorship in the future, they already are the jersey sponsor for the Kangaroos.

The f-ball continued to have their no doubt very lucrative sponsor Coles prominent at their games. You mentioned the other day car sponsors, while we have several at club level nothing like the competition wide deal that f-ball has with Toyota, same with the National Bank unfortunately.

It is something that does give me optimism though because there appears so much room for growth domestically for League, especially in regard to the barely tapped markets of Adelaide and in particular Perth and the corresponding nationwide sponsors that can attract.

 

 

 

                       

[unapologetic pedant]

11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Channel 9 exclusivity of Origin doesn’t stop that rating the house down annually.

Origin doesn`t rate the house down like it used to. Other factors of course, but I`m convinced that if the Nine coverage were replaced with the Fox coverage, the figures would be substantially higher.

 

11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t think the AFL GF was broadcast on Foxtel anyway, so it was an exclusive channel 7 event.

That`s the point. Without Fox League v Fox Fumble to balance things up, when it`s a straight fight of Seven`s AFL v Nine`s NRL, there can only be one winner. 

If I were a Fox subscriber, I`d be trying to find a streaming option next week which didn`t involve Rabs and Gus. Said it before - something has to change on FTA.

[unapologetic pedant]

11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Anyway, that’s done and dusted. Interestingly in the last five or six years we’ve seen Western/Footscray Bulldogs overcome a 62 year drought, Richmond put aside a 37 year drought and now Melbourne end 57 years without a premiership. St Kilda will be licking their lips. One premiership in 124 years. Shows the resilience of the club to survive. Especially when they rarely even make a push for a premiership. Enough of the AFL talk though, I know you lads can only handle so much.

I can handle any amount of talk. Watching the game is the onerous part.

Just to remind you, my Aussie Rules awareness dates back to the 80s when Channel 4 broadcast a highlights package over here. I was attuned to notice any parallels with NSWRL, one of which was that Footscray seemed to have a similar plebeian no-hoper image to the Wests Magpies in Sydney. In one programme there was an item about a proposed merger with Fitzroy. 

Then in the 90s they changed their name to Western around the same time we had all the Sydney Bulldogs, Sydney Tigers nonsense. I hope all the AFL Bulldogs fans still call their team "Footscray".

Both the Sydney NRL and Melbourne AFL clubs could learn from some of the bigger London Soccer clubs. i.e. how identities historically rooted in a single district or suburb can be preserved and used to expand the fanbase despite changing demographics.

Also back in the 80s, the first time I heard about a young bloke who bowled a bit of leg-spin came with mention of a St. Kilda Fumbleball connection.

[unapologetic pedant]

7 hours ago, The Rocket said:

NRL:  Game 1 Friday 24th September: 1 083 000 ( M706k. R 377k ) Fox 428k Total 1 512 000

          Game 2 Sat. 25th  Sept: 1 270 000 ( M 810k. R 406k.) Fox 462k.  Total 1 678 000.                      

There`s a repeat programme on Fox (not sure if it`s the whole game) which sometimes makes the top 20 list.

For Storm/Panthers it was 63k, which on top of the 462k live figure takes it well over half a million. Add the streaming and this game should break records. 

15 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I never understand how viewers in pubs and clubs are captured in viewing figures. Both sports will have plenty of viewers at the boozer.

In relation to my point above, I don`t know whether repeats are included in the end-of-year totals.

I`m also as perplexed as you about "pubs and clubs".

You hinted on the previous page that you know more about how the regionals are collated. This is another area of uncertainty for me. I tend to think in terms of the cities and larger towns of NSW and QLD, but what about Tas (pop - approx 540k) and NT (pop - approx 245k)?

[The Rocket]

On 26/09/2021 at 15:15, Sports Prophet said:

I never understand how viewers in pubs and clubs are captured in viewing figures. Both sports will have plenty of viewers at the boozer.

 

15 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I`m also as perplexed as you about "pubs and clubs"

There was a study done in 2017 which showed that the published TV ratings figures vastly underestimated the amount of people who actually tune into the Grand Finals of both codes.

For League despite that year there being a national metro and regional figure reported as 3.36m it was estimated that the amount of people actually watching at home was closer to 4.8m with a further 1.6m watching either at friends house, pubs/clubs, apps/website, at the ground and with a significant number, almost 1m, reporting they watched but not stating where. Therefore the total figure actually being closer to 6.5m 

Therefore based on that survey for every 3 people watching at home 1 was watching it elsewhere or alternatively for every one official viewer there was another unrecorded.

It was estimated that another 1.6m people only watched the highlights.

As an aside, interesting to note that the last time we had two Sydney teams in the GF was 2014 when the Bulldogs played South Sydney, this game captured an official national metro and regional audience of 3.98m. Maybe not beyond the realms of possibility that we may exceed the afl figure again this weekend.

 

 

 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

13 hours ago, The Rocket said:

As an aside, interesting to note that the last time we had two Sydney teams in the GF was 2014 when the Bulldogs played South Sydney, this game captured an official national metro and regional audience of 3.98m. Maybe not beyond the realms of possibility that we may exceed the afl figure again this weekend.

Do you have the 5-city breakdown component of that 3.98?

For two Melbourne clubs the AFL GF rating in Melbourne was 1.6m. On recent evidence, I`m not expecting two Sydney teams in the NRL GF to get anywhere near that in Sydney.

I`m also assuming the Melbourne rating will take a hit without The Storm there. Brisbane has no vested interest, numbers in Adelaide and Perth are never anything special, so where could 3.98m come from this year?

[Sports Prophet]

An interesting report by 4 Corners on the foreign ownership of 5 A League clubs is definitely worth a watch.

[unapologetic pedant]

There`s a link on the Sportsindustry Twitter page to some research carried out by "Roy Morgan" showing a large increase in "NRL supporters".

I don`t know what to make of it. Maybe @The Rocket or @Sports Prophet can help?

It all appears to rest on what "supporter" means.

[The Rocket]

On 28/09/2021 at 10:51, unapologetic pedant said:

Do you have the 5-city breakdown component of that 3.98?

For two Melbourne clubs the AFL GF rating in Melbourne was 1.6m. On recent evidence, I`m not expecting two Sydney teams in the NRL GF to get anywhere near that in Sydney.

I`m also assuming the Melbourne rating will take a hit without The Storm there. Brisbane has no vested interest, numbers in Adelaide and Perth are never anything special, so where could 3.98m come from this year?

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this, the figures I had were: Sydney 1 191 000; Brisbane 620 000; Melbourne 507 000; Adelaide 120 000; Perth 159 000 with 1 354 000 regionals. So no matter how you look at it they were monster viewing figures. 

In the period 2017 - 2019 Souths and Penrith averaged 850 000 and 800 000 viewers respectively FTA and Foxtel combined, so assuming that a sizeable chunk of those are in Sydney, plus casual viewers, that 2017 1.2m Sydney metro figure may not be so unattainable. The bump in ratings that host cities get that you mentioned elsewhere may see a healthy Brisbane figure as well.

Hard to imagine Melbourne pulling such figures again, however given the RoyMorgan survey you referred to in your last post showing the Storm as the most supported sporting club in Australia there is obviously at least a lot of passing interest in the sport down that way that may tune in for a GF.

 

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

There`s a link on the Sportsindustry Twitter page to some research carried out by "Roy Morgan" showing a large increase in "NRL supporters".

I don`t know what to make of it. Maybe @The Rocket or @Sports Prophet can help?

It all appears to rest on what "supporter" means.

Saw those survey results myself, I gather supporter may mean that when pushed people when asked if they followed a team in the other code a lot of Victorians said that they keep an eye on the Storm. I noticed that the Swans came in by a fair margin as the largest supported f-ball club, perhaps a fair few NSWelshman may have  said the same thing, certainly not me, couldn`t give a rats. Funny how it is not really reflected in both teams home state ratings.

Interesting figures though, Melbourne 1.2m, Broncos/Swans ~1m, a swathe of f-ball clubs then the Leaguies.

One thing I took out of it though it does confirm the value of being a one city team, even in hostile territory. I suppose it gives casuals something to attach their passing interest in the code to. Just can`t help but think a Perth team with a bit of success could do the same thing.

 

 

[Sports Prophet]

20 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

One thing I took out of it though it does confirm the value of being a one city team, even in hostile territory. I suppose it gives casuals something to attach their passing interest in the code to. Just can`t help but think a Perth team with a bit of success could do the same thing.

 

 

One team one city is definitely a plus. Think Newcastle. Even for those that prefer soccer or Australian Rules, if pressed on their favourite RL club, the answer would be an overwhelming Knights. Moreso as the younger generation come through.

As to Perth, I don’t think Perth has anywhere near the negative bias against league like Melbourne does, but RL is certainly anonymous outside dedicated league fans. Perth Wildcats, Perth Glory, Western Force and West Coast Fever would all get priority media attention before any NRL. With a Perth based NRL team, I am certain RL would have significant uplift in media attention and a club would be swiftly challenging the Wildcats as the city’s next biggest sports franchise outside of the Beagles and Shockers.

[unapologetic pedant]

Tweet from Sportsindustry -

"The NRL GF is on this Sunday, and Nine is reporting strong advertiser interest. Nine`s director sales - sport, Mathew Granger, said the network had experienced its "highest level of demand" across its entire NRL asset suite this year".

So why were Nine given such a large reduction last year? A saving which they took and promptly handed over to ARU.

[unapologetic pedant]

On 29/09/2021 at 15:46, The Rocket said:

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this, the figures I had were: Sydney 1 191 000; Brisbane 620 000; Melbourne 507 000; Adelaide 120 000; Perth 159 000 with 1 354 000 regionals. So no matter how you look at it they were monster viewing figures. 

NRL GF ratings -

Syd - 1.119m, Mel - 313k, Bri - 558k, Ade - 85k, Per - 126k, Regionals - 1.031m.

Up overall on last year, but down everywhere on 2014, well down in the Fumble capital.

On 29/09/2021 at 15:46, The Rocket said:

Hard to imagine Melbourne pulling such figures again, however given the RoyMorgan survey you referred to in your last post showing the Storm as the most supported sporting club in Australia there is obviously at least a lot of passing interest in the sport down that way that may tune in for a GF.

Couple of days ago, in the context of the Morgan survey of 50,000 people online, there was a tweet on Sporstsindustry saying that all the TV ratings are "based on information from 10,500 households".

In Sydney, wouldn`t surprise me if a block of those is @Sports Prophet and his AFL mates.

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

NRL GF ratings -

Syd - 1.119m, Mel - 313k, Bri - 558k, Ade - 85k, Per - 126k, Regionals - 1.031m.

Up overall on last year, but down everywhere on 2014, well down in the Fumble capital.

You can add another 363 000 who streamed the game which was close to double the f-ball figure.

Foxtel who were unable to broadcast the game live ran a replay immediately following the full-time siren. Considering they had GF build up coverage all day I would love to know how many of there subscribers went into a total media blackout during the game and waited for their coverage. Could be quite a few I suspect. Any thing to avoid A. Johns and co. I dare say. 

All up around the 3.6m mark about 500k off the f-ball and the highest rating GF for 5 years. Not too bad all things considered.

Speaking of Johns, in last weeks preliminary final, first I heard him referencing WWF Smackdown followed later on by a Flintstones and Barny Rubble analogy with Damien Cook`s running style. Simultaneously entertaining, enlightening and depressing. How much does Foxtel cost.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

9 hours ago, The Rocket said:

All up around the 3.6m mark about 500k off the f-ball and the highest rating GF for 5 years. Not too bad all things considered.

I still think the on-field product needs change. Not drastic, but I doubt all the GF viewers who don`t normally watch RL would have been enchanted by the sheer number of dummy-half runs and one-out basic carries. The game yesterday was crying out for a bit more variety and unpredictability, but I don`t have any faith in the ARL Commission`s ability to provide anything other than a faster game. The increase in finals ratings will likely persuade them that they are on the right track.

According to Annesley, the Commission will review the rules. My prediction is they will ignore the harmful effects of knock-on derangement, pay no attention to the kick pressure rules, retain PTBs instead of scrums when the ball crosses the touchline, and introduce 4-point field-goals and 12-again for ruck infringements.

@Sports Prophet made a point about the lame-ass final Souths play on the match thread. When a team are down by two, we want them desperately throwing the ball around, not setting up for a 2-point field-goal shot.

Were it not for the idiotic back-to-one rule, a team needing a big play with a few minutes left could really go for a charge down. At least it would put serious pressure on the kicker. As it stands, they can`t risk nullifying their defensive effort with a repeat set. So they have to allow a virtually unchallenged clearing kick and start their final set from 70-80 metres out. Hardly any wonder they see the 2-point field-goal as their best option.

9 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Foxtel who were unable to broadcast the game live ran a replay immediately following the full-time siren. Considering they had GF build up coverage all day I would love to know how many of there subscribers went into a total media blackout during the game and waited for their coverage. 

The Fox GF replay rated 88k. Also in the top 20 for STV yesterday were the two Q Cup semis - 71k and 42k.

[The Rocket]

Fair bit going on over here the last couple of days.

*  Channel 9 owned Sydney Morning Herald broke the story yesterday that News Corp. 65% owner of Foxtel had agreed to a $75m/5yr upgrade to its 2023 - 2027 broadcast deal with the NRL to part fund, the NRL grant part at least, the entry of the 17th team from Queensland. In less than 24hrs the same story appeared in the News Corp. owned The Australian claiming the figure was $100m over five years and without the strings attached the SMH story had claimed.

Not quite sure whether this is the Murdoch media making SMH look a bit silly or the truth is somewhere in between. Also talk about Nine and the NRL getting close to finalising a long term deal similarly concluding in 2027.

Broncos free-to-air games: NRL hasn’t agreed to reduce Brisbane fixtures (theaustralian.com.au)

*  Interesting Tweet released by SportsIndustry today in the lead up to their annual ratings review predicting that the NRL will outrate, trounce is the precise word they use, the afl by between 15m - 17m viewers over the 2021 season. Mind blowing. 

Claims that linear and STB figures are similar but NRL holds a big lead in streaming. It must be big. Lot of chatter that Nine may have missed their chance to finalise broadcast deal last year, and now are going to have to face a confident NRL armed with these bumper ratings figures combined with the surge in the finals series viewing and a new team.

The pleasing thing I find about the first point is that it appears that News Corp. are quite prepared to up-grade their broadcast deal if the NRL can show them a sound business case for adding new teams.

I like to think that any prospective consortiums out there now, be it in Adelaide, Perth, NZ or wherever will know that if they can provide a sound business case for providing the other half of the funds required to run an NRL team they will know that there is probably a sympathetic broadcaster willing to back their venture. This I think would be a major incentive for any one interested in setting up a franchise particularly somewhere like Perth or NZ which have time zone advantages for a broadcaster.

Some seem to think that it could take 10 -15 years to embed a team in WA but the eventual returns would be worth it.

[rlno1]

The NRL have now appeased their masters and are getting rid of their $150 million digital arm. Once again we are at the mercy of NewsLtd they call the shots. Doesn't it feel great.